Is my Amazon sword still alive?

[Mary Mckinny]

I purchased 2 Amazon Swords, one after I separated it from its pot and wool became 2 swords, I planted both in my graven with root tabs a few inches around it as per instructions on bottle. The swords have been in the tank for about 3 weeks, two are a nice green and one is a paler green, I haven't seen any new growth, so is this plant still doing ok and I'm just worrying for nothing or is it struggling?

[Mary Mckinny]

Other twi swords for reference.

[lefty o]

that first one is barely hanging on.

[Jungle Fan]

@Mary Mckinny as long as your Amazon sword's roots are not brown and mushy it can recover.

Did you get both from the same source? Both the first and the last picture show plants that aren't doing so well. Are you dosing anything besides the root tabs (all in one, liquid iron, potassium, CO2)? What lights are you using, and how long do you keep them on.

If your Amazon swords were grown emersed they might still be going through the transition to submersed growth, also they can take a while to get established and until you see new growth, as in months. Once they are established growth can be rather explosive.

I would cut off any damaged leaves (leaves that are brown, or translucent, or show obvious damage) so the plant can focus its energy on new growth.

[Mary Mckinny]

On 8/3/2021 at 3:11 PM, Jungle Fan said:

@Mary Mckinny as long as your Amazon sword's roots are not brown and mushy it can recover.

Did you get both from the same source? Both the first and the last picture show plants that aren't doing so well. Are you dosing anything besides the root tabs (all in one, liquid iron, potassium, CO2)? What lights are you using, and how long do you keep them on.

If your Amazon swords were grown emersed they might still be going through the transition to submersed growth, also they can take a while to get established and until you see new growth, as in months. Once they are established growth can be rather explosive.

I would cut off any damaged leaves (leaves that are brown, or translucent, or show obvious damage) so the plant can focus its energy on new growth.

Yes these were all from the same source (Aquarium co-op), picture #1 and #3 are actually the same plant that broke into 2 plants.  I have a powdered fertilizer that's mixed with Water and I add the water to the aquarium periodically (about weekly), in addition to the root tabs. For lighting, I just got a week ago " hygger Advanced Full Spectrum LED Aquarium Light with 24/7 Lighting Cycle 6 Colors 5 Intensity Customize Fish Tank Light for 48-54 in Freshwater Planted Tank with Timer"; previously it was just indirect sunlight from a window.

I have not bothered the plant to check the roots, will that harm it?

[Jungle Fan]

@Mary Mckinny  if the rosette where the leaves originate feels firm chances are the roots are firm and still healthy. I know some swear on powdered fertilizer but for a beginner I think you'd be better off with a good all in one liquid fertilizer like Easy Green,

I'm not familiar with the Hygger but on average plants need a good photo period of anywhere from 8 to 10 hours per day, some more, some less. Amazon swords are not super needy when it comes to light but they do need about 8 hours on medium intensity for really good growth.

You can always try to add a few more root tabs, and some Easy Green liquid iron, as well as Seachem Flourish Potassium, but as I said I'd probably cut off the damaged leaves, dose Easy Green all in one and give the swords some time.

Amazon swords and Cryptocoryne are heavy root feeders and they need the extra iron and potassium, though normally the root tabs are sufficient. Because my tank has so many of them I also dose liquid iron, and potassium into the water column, besides the all in one.

Are you keeping any other plants in the tank, if so, how are they doing?

 

[Mary Mckinny]

On 8/3/2021 at 4:10 PM, Jungle Fan said:

@Mary Mckinny  if the rosette where the leaves originate feels firm chances are the roots are firm and still healthy. I know some swear on powdered fertilizer but for a beginner I think you'd be better off with a good all in one liquid fertilizer like Easy Green,

I'm not familiar with the Hygger but on average plants need a good photo period of anywhere from 8 to 10 hours per day, some more, some less. Amazon swords are not super needy when it comes to light but they do need about 8 hours on medium intensity for really good growth.

You can always try to add a few more root tabs, and some Easy Green liquid iron, as well as Seachem Flourish Potassium, but as I said I'd probably cut off the damaged leaves, dose Easy Green all in one and give the swords some time.

Amazon swords and Cryptocoryne are heavy root feeders and they need the extra iron and potassium, though normally the root tabs are sufficient. Because my tank has so many of them I also dose liquid iron, and potassium into the water column, besides the all in one.

Are you keeping any other plants in the tank, if so, how are they doing?

 

I have easy green I can start using, since I got the lights they are getting about 8-9 hours of light a few days much longer as I forgot to set the timer, though a friend of mine did a light test and said its medium intensity at best. The tank is 75G, and still being cycled so no fish yet. In the tank, are the 3 swords, a bulb plant, and  2 Anubis nana petites, it previously had 3 types of Anubis but they all caught a rot and were replaced.

I will slip this one a root tab and check to see if its still firm.

[Mary Mckinny]

@Jungle Fan I pulled the Sword up and trimmed the browning leaves, the plant still feels firm and I saw the very beginning of two new leaves so Hopefully it just needs more time. Its back in the water with a root tab under it.

[Jungle Fan]

@Mary Mckinny Usually I trim the leaves with the plant remaining in the tank, but in your case now you know you won't have to worry about your swords, they should be fine within a while. Just be patient, continue to dose them and you should see new leaves growing.

Would be interesting to see your tank once it's fully cycled and your swords have recovered.

[CalmedByFish]

On 8/3/2021 at 5:11 PM, Jungle Fan said:

I would cut off any damaged leaves (leaves that are brown, or translucent, or show obvious damage) so the plant can focus its energy on new growth.

I was thinking plants "eat" their damaged leaves, and use that nutrition to make new leaves. No?

[Keeg]

That happens in nature where everything is fighting to survive. By leaving the old leaves you're allowing it to decay in your aquarium causing a change in parameters. Plus a lot of plants "eat" their old leaves by sucking out the important bits leaving brown and or translucent leaves. 

[Jungle Fan]

@CalmedByFish short answer is: No! Damaged leaves leak nutrients the plant could better use for new growth. Damaged leaves also don't recover.

[CalmedByFish]

On 8/4/2021 at 12:40 AM, Keeg said:

By leaving the old leaves you're allowing it to decay in your aquarium causing a change in parameters. 

 

On 8/4/2021 at 12:40 AM, Jungle Fan said:

Damaged leaves leak nutrients the plant could better use for new growth.

Is "leaking nutrients" an aspect of "decay?" 

[Jungle Fan]

@CalmedByFishYou asked a question that requires a lot more than the few words it took to ask it, and it is worthy of in depth exploration as volumes have been dedicated to it specifically, and while I'm not a botanist, I merely sat next to some aspiring ones during my biology college classes to get my BSN in Nursing, I will try to give you a distilled answer that doesn't bust the framework of this thread.

A lot of time we think of plants as simply requiring the nutrients, and if we provide them all is going to be fine, but plants have a physiology of their own different from ours. Yes, they do possess the ability to shift nutrients from one established leaf to another growing leaf, they can access stored nutrients, and it will work for a while to rob Peter to pay Paul, however when you begin to rob Peter to pay Paul, Luke, Simon, John, and Matthew; Peter's stored up nutrients are not enough.  Meaning certain nutrients can be transferred but when the overall demand becomes overwhelming and not enough stores are available you begin to see damage to internal structures that are necessary to transport these nutrients, also some nutrients cannot be transferred, cannibalized, or "eaten", as it was referred to, this is the case with manganese, boron, iron, calcium, sulfur, and copper. The bigger a plant gets the bigger the requirement for those nutrients gets.

When the plant has transferred nutrients that are available for transfer we see leaves turning brown and becoming translucent. Since the plant is an organism the breakdown in its internal structures necessary to move nutrients, veins for one, will cause exposed open wounds (I'm borrowing a bit from nursing wound care here to not have to do bigger detours). The more decaying leaves you have that are simply rotting, the more open wounds you have where nutrients are not just released from the decay but you are having the rest of the organism hemorrhaging nutrients from a wound that is not able to be closed because the tissue where it is located is not healthy, and unable to perform the healing process of repairing its outside layer.  At this point because the transfer of nutrients stops other leaves will show in this way also because some nutrients are limiting others from being used to facilitate transfer. Trimming off leaves that are turning brown, and translucent is, if it helps to envision it, a form of what is termed debridement in wound care, the surgical excision of dead, contaminated, infected, or damaged tissue.

When a plant is suffering from nutrient deficiency it experiences stress and finally shock, and while we don't think of plants a lot in those terms, stress depresses their immune system, not like ours but it still enables them to fight off certain types of organisms that go along with decay like fungi and bacteria, the more open wounds there are the more the decay accelerates, until the plant organism is overwhelmed. This is very much simplified, however I hope it illustrates the point. If you think of trimming off a damaged leaf as debridement, or amputation the good news is that as long as you fix whatever the underlying deficiency, or deficiencies are the plant because it is a much simpler form of life than your fish, or a human can, and will regrow new leaves, which is not the case for a human leg, or arm, or the gills, or eyes of a fish.

Now I'm aware that I've borrowed extensively from Peter medical wound care to pay the description of Paul plant physiology to try to explain why it might serve the plant better to trim (debride, or amputate) the damaged leaf but I hope this makes sense.There have been literally tomes filled with what happens in pathophysiological processes, and decay in plants, this is my attempt at giving you the simplified Cliff Notes.

[Jungle Fan]

Forgot to mention that my definition of "damage" is holes, turning brown, turning translucent, everything affecting leaf structure, not so much chlorosis, turning yellow, which is an indication of lack of chlorophyll, the plant is perfectly capable of repairing that with addition of proper nutrient levels.

[CalmedByFish]

@Jungle FanWhat a great explanation! Thank you! It makes a lot more sense to me when translated into human biology like that. 

[Jungle Fan]

I know my explanation would probably make botanists cringe,I just thought it might help visualize what's going on.

[Mary Mckinny]

Update on the sword, its not grown much larger but its greener and has more leaves now.

[lefty o]

On 10/24/2021 at 2:29 PM, Mary Mckinny said:

Update on the sword, its not grown much larger but its greener and has more leaves now.

good to see it turning around.

[Phantom240]

For what it's worth, my original sword plant did literally nothing for what seemed like years aside from be small and green and pop out a new leaf or two once a year. Once the mulm started to build in the substrate, and I found a light and photoperiod it liked, it exploded.