Help for my sick longfin cherry barbs

[initiallyfish]

Hello,

I'm entirely new to forums so I hope I am posting this in the correct thread. I'm a new fishkeeper (its been a bit less than 2 weeks) and I started with longtail cherry barbs. I read that they are very hardy so I chose to keep them after having my aquarium cycle for 3 days after using one of the Cycle products. I have read the posts about beneficial bacteria and the nitrogen cycle but I figured the 3 day and them being a hardy species means they will be able to handle it... but I was wrong. I test water parameters constantly and have only ever noticed ammonia spike up to 0.25 and nitrates up to 20 I think but I've been doing water changes every few days and sometimes daily. So as far as water parameters they are in check.

The problem is that one of my fish had been lethargic for a couple days: would stay in the same spot and seem to open its mouth and close it a lot and didn't seem to want to eat. I read online that keeping the water a little bit warmer and adding aquarium salt would help but it didn't really. I tried to fish her out to care for her separately and she died.

A day or two later, two more of my fish started exhibiting similar patterns so I was very worried. I read up and saw that the problem might have been with insufficient water movement. I went out and bought an air pump connected to an air stone and another mini pump connected to a smaller stone. The fish have been pretty active and seem to be doing okay since then. They don't seem particularly lethargic anymore but sometimes their appetite is variable. All of my fish seem to have low appetite but I think they just may be nibbling on leftover food that sinks or gets trapped in the plants. 

The problem remains that they seem to still have that very rapid open and closing of the mouth thing still going on. So far I'm sure that the water parameters are ok and the tank is sufficiently oxygenated. I'm feeding them 2-3 times a day as well. 

I wonder if it is just a matter of time before they get better??

I forgot to mention that for one of the fish i tried giving them a 10 second dip in a methylene blue bath, it didn't seem to do anything. I've also been using Stress Guard for a couple days.

Sorry for the long post. If anyone can offer their 2 cents about the topic I'd be very grateful. Below are screenshots of the fish that seem to be sick. I have a video of them but I don't know how to post it in here. 

Thank you!

 

[Colu]

The problem is your tank hasn't cycled it's the ammonia effecting the gills that could be causeing rapid breathing i would do small daily water changes and add prime to detoxify the ammonia what is your nitrite level

Edited May 26, 2021 by Colu

[Lemon]

do you have any goof fish store local to you? I would ask about them holding your fish until the tank is cycled(can process ammonia and nitrite quickly it helps to add plants, and filter media from an old heathy aquarium)

[initiallyfish]

3 minutes ago, quirkylemon103 said:

do you have any goof fish store local to you? I would ask about them holding your fish until the tank is cycled(can process ammonia and nitrite quickly it helps to add plants, and filter media from an old heathy aquarium)

I don't have any, only a big pet store from which I got them. I've added plants but I don't have any old aquarium things...

[initiallyfish]

7 minutes ago, Colu said:

The problem is your tank hasn't cycled it's the ammonia effecting the gills that could be causeing rapid breathing i would do small daily water changes and add prime to detoxify the ammonia 

That sounds great I'll try to do that. I've been using Nutrafin Aqua Plus thinking it was equivalent to the Prime but it's not now that I look it up. I'm gonna get a hold of that ASAP. Thank you!

[Lemon]

11 minutes ago, initiallyfish said:

I don't have any, only a big pet store from which I got them. I've added plants but I don't have any old aquarium things...

is there an aquarium club near you? maybe one of the members could hold them for you 🤔 or you could buy/borrow some filter media from a aquarium club member

 

[sudofish]

You're now doing a "fish in" cycle. Aquarium co-op has cycling videos on youtube though I don't know if they have any specifically talking about the fish-in method. If you search on youtube for it you will find some though. There might even be a thread on this forum.

[quikv6]

Assuming you are dechlorinating your water, then I believe the issue is completely cycle related. Any level of ammonia or nitrite can be toxic to the fish, and cause stress at the least. The detox method with Prime is a great suggestion. Keep in mind that it would only last 48 hours at the most before you have to redose or waterchange.

[initiallyfish]

1 hour ago, quirkylemon103 said:

is there an aquarium club near you? maybe one of the members could hold them for you 🤔 or you could buy/borrow some filter media from a aquarium club member

 

There's one over an hour away. I'll try calling them and seeing if there are options available. Thanks!!

[initiallyfish]

1 hour ago, sudofish said:

You're now doing a "fish in" cycle. Aquarium co-op has cycling videos on youtube though I don't know if they have any specifically talking about the fish-in method. If you search on youtube for it you will find some though. There might even be a thread on this forum.

I'm definitely gonna check out if there are "fish in" cycle vids on youtube now that I know that's the problem! Thanks 🙂

[initiallyfish]

1 hour ago, quikv6 said:

Assuming you are dechlorinating your water, then I believe the issue is completely cycle related. Any level of ammonia or nitrite can be toxic to the fish, and cause stress at the least. The detox method with Prime is a great suggestion. Keep in mind that it would only last 48 hours at the most before you have to redose or waterchange.

Yes, I've been dechlorinating it! Indeed, I think for the time being I'm definitely gonna be doing daily water changes and getting my hands on Prime. I just did a 50% water change earlier and the fish seem to be really happy about that!

[initiallyfish]

Hi everyone, I have an update. You were all definitely right about the cycling process. I tested my water just now and the ammonia levels read between 0.25 and 0.5, nitrites were around 0.25, and nitrates were at 5. I've never seen these numbers before they're usually around zero. I did a 50% water change and now the ammonia reads somewhere between 0 and 0.25 (hard to tell because of the light), nitrates are back to 0 and nitrates seem to be somewhere between 0 and 5 (nearly 0 but not quite perfectly yellow). 

I'll try to get in touch with the fish store that's a bit far away but so far my plan of action is to do 50% water changes daily, the fish don't really get too stressed by it and I get to clean the gravel at the same time. And also using Prime. Hopefully this helps.

Thank you to everyone for your replies! 

[quikv6]

Prime may negate the need for as many waterchanges (or as large a volume). When trying to complete a cycle, this can be a good thing, as many large waterchanges can drag out the cycling process a bit. It sounds like you're on top of it. Just keep testing. The fish may not mind if it stays at the levels you are at, but an ammonia or nitrite spike can happen, and happen rapidly, and thus negatively impact the fish.

As long as you stay on top of things, you'll be fine.

[HH Morant]

Feeding 2-3 times per day is too much. The food they don't eat rots and the food they do eat is converted to poop, both of which create ammonia. One feeding per day is enough, and even then it can be good to skip a day occasionally. When you have an ammonia or nitrite problem, you should stop feeding your fish until the ammonia and nitrites are zero. The ammonia should reach zero first, then the nitrites. It is not unusual for fish in the wild to be without food for several days, so they can handle it.  

[initiallyfish]

20 minutes ago, HH Morant said:

Feeding 2-3 times per day is too much. The food they don't eat rots and the food they do eat is converted to poop, both of which create ammonia. One feeding per day is enough, and even then it can be good to skip a day occasionally. When you have an ammonia or nitrite problem, you should stop feeding your fish until the ammonia and nitrites are zero. The ammonia should reach zero first, then the nitrites. It is not unusual for fish in the wild to be without food for several days, so they can handle it.  

Oh interesting, I had no idea. They don't seem to eat a lot so I worried that if I don't feed them often enough they might straight up be missing out on food for a long time. But I'll try to keep it at once per day for now, maybe it'll also help with their appetite. Thanks!

[Trish]

You aren't cycled and your fish are stessed.....   .25 ammonia is a reading fish can handle, but if it's higher than that then do a water change, while you are doing that "relax".   Don't feed too much.  I had a cycle stall recently, even long time fishkeeper's can get over zealous wanting to start up a new tank.   I just tested ammonia every morning, it was going as high as .5 to 1ppm  because the bio-load wasn't catching up. Reason.... too many fish added without waiting a week in-between and feeding daily.  Was the world coming to an end?.... nope.  Instead I quit feeding for a day or two, then fed every other day, tested daily and changed water 30% if ammonia was .5 or higher.    After a week the bio-load caught up and now ammonia readings are a steady .25ppm which is normal for my water.   

I have to add I was doing a "quik cycle" as well.  I keep Nutrifin Cycle around just as a helper to boost bacteria but don't rely on it.  I had added established substrate, sponge filter and HOB, in spite my zeal left the cycle stalling... FIRST TIME in my life I didn't fret.... just breathed calmly, relaxed and brought the water parameter back to .25ppm.  Welcome to the forum @Intitiallyfish.   Oh yes, one more time.... don't forget to relax you will put this behind you and will go on to become a great fish keeper!  

Edited May 26, 2021 by Trish

[initiallyfish]

2 hours ago, Trish said:

You aren't cycled and your fish are stessed.....   .25 ammonia is a reading fish can handle, but if it's higher than that then do a water change, while you are doing that "relax".   Don't feed too much.  I had a cycle stall recently, even long time fishkeeper's can get over zealous wanting to start up a new tank.   I just tested ammonia every morning, it was going as high as .5 to 1ppm  because the bio-load wasn't catching up. Reason.... too many fish added without waiting a week in-between and feeding daily.  Was the world coming to an end?.... nope.  Instead I quit feeding for a day or two, then fed every other day, tested daily and changed water 30% if ammonia was .5 or higher.    After a week the bio-load caught up and now ammonia readings are a steady .25ppm which is normal for my water.   

I have to add I was doing a "quik cycle" as well.  I keep Nutrifin Cycle around just as a helper to boost bacteria but don't rely on it.  I had added established substrate, sponge filter and HOB, in spite my zeal left the cycle stalling... FIRST TIME in my life I didn't fret.... just breathed calmly, relaxed and brought the water parameter back to .25ppm.  Welcome to the forum @Intitiallyfish.   Oh yes, one more time.... don't forget to relax you will put this behind you and will go on to become a great fish keeper!  

Thanks Trish! I will keep all this in mind moving forward 😊