mountaintoppufferkeeper

Time will tell @DaveO ill give it my best shot though

@Colu i believe so. The intention was get a mix of males and females and build up from there. Still learning but I believe the males are darker and a little bigger for holding the fry

The new members of the fishroom have arrived. Enneacampus ansorgii freshwater african pipefiah collected in Cameroon. They are a pretty cool very little species so far. Looking forward to raising a tankful of these once I get the process sorted. 40 breeder that gets some morning sun: four pipefish, snails, scuds, They seemed to start feeding on rotifers in the water immediately and a few grindal worms i put in for them

@Lennie im curious on the brackialsh and goby SME answers. For the identification this publication lists more about gobies than I knew prior to finding it today. It does cover many brachygobius species taxonomy starting l at page 51 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=A+revision+of+the+gobiid+fish+genus+Mugilogobius+(Teleostei%3A+Gobioidei)%2C+and+its+systematic+placement&btnG= This field study only found xanthomelas in pure freshwater (Easiest way to search nih study is save as pdf and find by scientific name) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9169113/ Salinity is a cool variable. Some studies note variances in salinity can change the digestive processes and functions in some species. That will be a fun project to hear about.

I have not yet taken the brackish step yet but @Biotope Biologist may have just convinced me:). @Lennie just based on the puffers I keep and success vs food results with tankmates, i would look more to mollies or more figure 8s. I have always had more success with midwater speed and agility than bottom dwelling. If i was doing brackish i think id try my hand at nerite snail ranching as a food and just the normal food earthworms, ramshorns, pond snails etc. I would be a little more careful on the amount until I figured out how long the food could go in the salinity i ran my brackish puffer at. I havent found any research on differences on belly color in figure 8s. In Pao puffers often the male has a darker pattern or base color on the belly. Most puffers ive kept change intensity and pattern based off mood etc...a darker belly could just be how that puffer decided to show that day

Thanks @Chick-In-Of-TheSea. @anya it depends on your preferences l and what is available. Sorry on the slight delay: I feed variety as much as possible to avoid nutritional deficencies and keep puffers enriched and willing to eat new foods and use varied feeding strategies. My personal experience is if my hairys are conditioned to a feeding schedule of easy meals they wont go out of their way to actively hunt mid and top water fish that are fast and aware....but they will set ambushes in prefered locations if the fish happens to swim into it its food. Some will bait their ambush with a piece of food to lure a fish in. Ive found they each have different food preferences by individual puffer . I do earthworms, frozen tilapia strips, livebearer culls, and the rest of my below list for hairys. I have never personally seen the issue with lockjaw from thiaminase rich food. I feed a variety of food to all my puffers including hairys and i use vitamen supplements (vita chem) so that might be helping prevent the vitamin deficency thiaminase is reported to cause. Frozen 50% of diet +/- Frozen strips of tilapia ( i freeze with 6 or so drops of vitachem and a drop of garlic guard per strip) Frozen krill ( i freeze with two squirts or so of vitachem and a few drops of garlic guard per flat ) Frozen raw crayfish ( i recieve frozen and repack with 6 or so drops of vitachem and a drop of garlic guard per crayfish) The tilapia has mostly replaced the krill due to easy of prep, easy of purchase, and a closer to nature food source for an ambush puffer. Live foods 40% of diet +/- Earthworms - cultured here on organic greens in a worm farm in the fishroom snails : cultured and fed with repashy gel foods, extreme fish food, and organic vegetables. Cull livebearers: from other tanks cultured and fed with repashy gel foods, extreme fish food, and organic vegetables or polycultured livebearers in their tanks why are feeding off of the cleanliness of puffers feeding Fresh (not alive) 10% of diet Dubia roaches, crickets, superworms, soldierfly larvae ( ecofresh currently)

Thanks @xXInkedPhoenixX. @anya some will say no never. I have been keeping hairys for years with eachother and some success using short finned fast midwater species , normally a livebearer, with them. I would view any fish with a hairy as hairy food at the discretion of the puffer. That said, outside of a colony with just hairys, I have had some success with variatus platys, limia vittata, and kidders livebearers in my puffer colony tanks (to include hairy puffers). A fast short finned midwater species has been the most successful for me for longer durations. Fast and aware are equally important. A slower bottom dweller has never worked for me .... at all. I wouldnt personally attempt anything that is a bottom dweller with any pao species of puffer. Livebearers seem to figure out cover a bit better than other types of fish do here. After 14 days or so they know how to avoid the puffer pointy end in my tanks. I have kept hairys in 40 breeder and larger tanks for 7 years without any issues personally. I have had spawning many times and no injuries. That of course could change in the next 5 minutes; It is more up to the puffers than me if and when the dynamic changes and friend becomes food. With good plant cover and feeding foods on a schedule my hairys have generally decided it is not worth the extra effort to vigorously chase smarter livebearers for a meal when they know they are getting delivery. While they dont go out of their way to chase meals, they will eat those livebearers who occasionally get inside a puffer ambush. Anything in my hairy puffer tanks that isnt a hairy puffer is eventually going to be food but the livebearers often live in a longer term self-sustaining colony with my puffers.

Update found the stress inflation this is the same puffer over the course of a minute. I have never aeen this in a hairy personally. This is Pao palustris And one more hairy puffer puff this is also one of those spawning color changes and displays. The 2nd hairy is in the clay pipe

Thanks for the heads up @DaveO best is arguable but ill give it a shot. @anya To me it could be because the puffer wants to puff up to exercise etc, or as a reaction to something in or around the tank. There are some observations I have made with my hairy colonys and other puffer colonys on types of inflations. In general : My puffers will puff up more in a colony setup. Often here puffing up is often just communication more than fright. These are just well fed bellies not puffed up hairys this is spawning inflation with the color change and "waggle" Male courting female This is more of an establishing dominance inflation by young hairys i can not find the stress inflation photo of a yound pao puffetlr that i have posted on the forum before. That one occured once with an F1 Pao palustris fry when reintroduced to their siblings afger a few weeks. Stress inflations, in my opinion, make the puffer look like a ball vs the others shown above that occur often in groups and here are fairly normal.

45 minutes west of colorado springs on highway 24 9200 feet up trout lakes woods and the freshwaterpufferfish i keep and occasionally breed 🙂

Welcome to the forum. There are a few of us in colorado . Im up in divide.

Cross rivers were all in the 6.5"- 7" range when sent to forever homes... the one kept back for the cross river project is now 8-8.5 " ish...... a pretty cool puffer species

@Halvyt Thanks kindly. I could certainly be confidently wrong of course that is just my best informed belief when i moved the 3 on.Im basing my determination off of the opinions of others, and my experience with the other puffer breeding projects here. I was already leaning that they were all males based on personal experience with puffer breeding behaviors here then I asked those with more experience than I have with the species. The behavior of all 4 cross rivers towards eachother, once they hit about 7"-8" (17-21cm) long, was similar to the spotted congo puffer males, and males of the pao species I keep in colonys toward other males. ( I'll add the behaviors in the other species of puffer to the end for comparison. ) Once it seemed likely that I had males I asked the opinions of those with experience collecting, exporting, or working with them. The consensus there was the males have the spotted pattern and females less spots and a more lined pattern. Its still not confirmed one way or the other and I could of course be confidently wrong about what the males and females look like, but my understanding is the lined crossriver puffer with less red spots are sometimes collected with the spotted cross rivers from the wild. There is some discussion that the lined cross river puffer could be a fahaka-pustulatus hybrid occuring in the river. I lean more on the side of thise being females based on my still limited experience with puffers. I intend to determine that for myself at somepoint in the future :). ****The GIF behavior comparisons**** Cross river puffers :never did real damage (no fin tears etc). This clip yhry didnt actually touch. The behavior here was more often as they grew and occured between all 4 cross river males in the 270 gallon. I added tones of plants and made feeding stations out of easy planters and amazon sword plants. That bought me enough time to decide they were all males. This may also be food aggression (the snails on the bottom). The most frequent conspecific aggression between the 4 was dueing feedings but as they matured it was when any of the four caught sight of eachother. This is much like ehat i caught from two of my 4 adult spotted congos in their qt tank on arrival. I assessed this to be related to tank space more than anything in this 20 gallon. These two and 2 more i assume the cross river is a bigger more territorial and food aggressive version of these. Here is as close to that charging behavior as I have seen in my colonys of (Pao baileyi) hairy puffers Vs an adult male displaying to an adult female in front of his cave Pao palustris spawning behaviors F1 male left F1 female right Pao "exported as abei" male in cave female about to join him Pao leiurus male emerges behind female The male female dynamic is more of display mock charge vs the male male aggression in the cross rivers. The way i read the behaviors they more driving away competition, defending food, and area than finding a mate in the group .

This project has become a growing this cross river up. Im not to sure ill find another to pair but its been pretty fun so far. Tonights feeding was Eco fresh Dubia roaches. The "fresh" packaged bugs are popular with this puffer...... and the hundreds of cuban limia in the 270 with him. I always try for livebearers in with the puffers to handle the messy eating the limia vittata seem to be doing great here so far. They have been even better than the variatus platy for me. My current palustrus feeding rotation : "Fresh packaged": dubia roaches, superworms, soldierfly larvae Frozen foods : clams, raw whole crayfish, tilapia strips The rest: ramshorn snails, trapdoor snails, mystery snails, earthworms

Cleaned up the glass on the spotted congo puffer adult colony 40 breeder ....then gave them a bit of a MTS and ramshorn meal Also cleaned off the front glass of the 270 pond for the hold back cross river and his large colony of cuban limia. Probugs ecofresh dubia roaches are a hit with this puffer. The superworm version and soldier fly version also are eaten.

Thanks @Chick-In-Of-TheSea. @MandatoryDenialPictures and a gif would be cool to see of Trouble and his adventures. I havent noticed any spotted congo hunting and eating fish personally here though the will take frozen tilapia occasionally. It is worms, snails, misc insects, occasional shrimp and krill...exhibit A snails are their favorite here even as fry as evidenced by the field of pond snail shells. Your puffer should be decent at the hunt to get to their current size.... even tiny spotted congos are very good at it Since the adults here will eat frozen tilapia occasionally ....i suppose "food is food" if hungry enough and Trouble decides that guppies are better to have over "for dinner" than to dinner

@Guppysnail they do seem to be very interactive for me. I also enjoy learning and experiencing other species through the forum. Its such a great community to be in

So far 🙂 ..... I do the med trio and deworm all wild puffers on arrival. Some are in more need than others ive noticed but they all need it for me. I just assume all wild fish and particularly puffers have some level of worms. After that i just treat as needed.

Sorry I missed this one ..... i did sort of. My "local" fish store here in Colorado USA is 130 miles north from the house and imported them for me. They reach out whenever a cool puffer is on a list for import. Of course I said yes to those because puffers :). I bought the whole group and drove the 3 hours up and 3 hours back to avoid shipping them. They are spawning today though. I still am not sure what species they are but its a cool process to compare and contrast with other species ive bred. The top one in normal coloration the bottom is a female in courtship dress The male in courtship dress is fairly nice to the other male here but is defending his chosen cave for spawning. The male in the cave is the same male as here. Pao puffers are so awesome with the color, pattern, and behavior changes

UPDATE: I consulted with a few more experienced in cross river puffers and based on my limited undersanding of puffer behaviors, the collective cross river puffer knowledge of those individuals, and their discussions with field collectors, exporters, and their collegues I assessed I had 4 males. Turns out, as you can imagine, all males is not conducive to producing fry in the future. I have moved 3 on to better situations and retained this guy out of the 4 So now the hunt begins for a female cross river to buy or possibly trade for a male. The gist is if the cross river has less spotting it is likely to be a female.

My current process is to place the eggs in a german breeding ring which ill normally float a 40 breeder. The snails are in the tank its floating in. I just let them climb up the sides Over the foam ring top and into the middle with the food and fry once the fry are hatched out and are swimming for a few days it seems to be fine

@LTygress nice setup there. I got my cultures at the same spot. As a side note I have no idea how my very high altitude changes behaviors, growth rates, and culture success but those have been my experiences up here (9,200'). Both pairs of my wild caught spotted congos spawn in that method. As far as i know this species spawns similarly in other setups. @Preston John ( the SME I reference for spotted congos) at spottedcongopuffer.com, his youtube channel, and here on the forum has excellent information on them. Snails are more convienent clean up that eventually become food here. I have noticed my spotted congo fry began picking and taking out snails around 2 months old. I have been surprised at how many snails i can go through in a week. In the right circumstances when a puffer decides a tankmate is food option those puffer beaks all work the same in my experience..... even amazons. Ive found the reverse to be true as well. I run colonys of many pao puffers with livebearers to keep the tanks clear of excess food. Given the right amount of space, food, and cover most puffer species are in that "nice" ballpark for me

Indeed. Yeah and they do come up pretty regularly in the oddball talks. I think its more just a function of the collection and export process out of southeast asia. At some point the pao puffers seem like they might get combined and confused in the species identifications. All part of the fun though

Thanks for the mention @AllFishNoBrakes. @LTygressawesome stuff. Congrats on all the successes. I too like the challenges. I think i got all the questions from your post. Apologies if i missed any. does anyone have a paramecium culture they can send me a part of? i would say a paramecium culture isnt really a need need until you are seeing spawning and starting to grab eggs. I would look at biological supply houses / lab suppliers for the paramecium starter cultures. Thats where paramecium for science projects in schools, college, field studies of water quality etc. are sourcing them. It is probably worth going that way to have a clean starter with no risk of anything else in it. Those suppliers ship that all the time quick and fairly easy. when i grabbed them for the spotted congo fry that was my source. I would also look at copepods from your filtration as a seperate food culture. they may eat the paramecium so that is a seperate culture here. I believe copepods helped alot on my last batch of congos. But how do microworms and vinegar eels compare in size to paramecium? The small side of paramecium are listed in the 50 micrometer/micron long range. paramecium basicsally look like cloudy water to my eye. I would guess a paramecium is as long as a microworm is in diameter so a bit smaller. I havent had a spotted congo fry eat a vinegar eel. I also think that, after recording their feeding process and thinking on it for a few months , they probably mostly feed in the water column and it probably has to be paramecium and other infusoria until they grow big enough for baby brine shrimp. ThIs GIF is how they feed up here in those first weeks. The fry who is facing the bbs as it starts basically drives themselves at a 45⁰ angle up into the paramecium. this is a bunch of days old. That bbs puts their spotted congo size into perspecive. The camera can not see the paramecium that was above them.in the water column. if i had to guess i would say they would probably not eat worms until after they were big enough for bbs I am fairly limted in my spotted congo experience but i keep a few puffer species in colonys and document spawning and raising fry in all of them when it cloccurs. I have bred and raised pao palustris many times, and tetraodon schouldenti a couple of times so far. the challenge seems to be the fry food side and the growth rate in spotted congos. A,t least up here it has been much slower than any of my Pao fry have been. have been. These are 4 months old 3/4" long or so. They have been crushing food for the duration. Currently eating whiteworms and every snail in their tank as seen in the substrate. Part of the spotred congo price may be the long growout time in addition to food needs, but im sure it could be sped up with some batches. Is a smaller tank better - like a 20G? Or is that too tight? I would argue bigger footprint is better for these and all puffer colonys. The gif below was a 20 gallon i used to qt wild spotted congos....and its almost certainly a male and female. Id go 30 gallon or bigger personally. I breed my spotted congos in either my 43 breeder custom acrylic "puffer breeding tank" or in a 40 breeder colony set up. The two in this clip and 2 more have had no aggression issues in either footprint. This in my view was a direct result of the tank being too small. She was looking to injure there. They would both do this behavior for the duration of the qt. Same 2 and 2 more 43 breeder little more sociable id say But I'm thinking I will need to see and catch these eggs, so maybe a fine grade (which compacts down to almost a solid base) is better? I think whatever you prefer my best success was setting up an egg trap basicslly and removing the subwassertang etc they spawn in to hatch out. Mine have only spawned in plants he will flip belly to belly in the plants and drive them both down and in. They will them spawn. Its more contain and remove for me. Did you know a bare bottom tank is usually when and why discus show no peppering? Its wild that happens. I personally think my puffer species are all bothered by the bare bottom its probably more the shine thand anything if i had to guess based on my observations. I also have found they show better color and pattern on lighter substrate. I do the tractor supply blasting media for the dark substrate and normally pool filter sand for the puffers.

Thats a great song 🙂 @Fish Folk Not too elaborate just using plastic food containers with a vent for a little airflow. The standard green scrubber pads are stacked up 5 high or so. The top layer has a "trench" cut out to hold the kibble in it. I keep 1/4 " of water in it and flood/rinse with water ever 5 days or so or when the worms finish the kibble. Its more copying the grindal worm method out there than anything the key has been keep them with a pool of water in the bottom. Its not as productive as other methods but no soil is nice. This setup is enough to feed out a tablespoon of worms every day if i keep the kibble full