Green Thumbs needed

[Zdrube]

I have some java fern in a tank that i have had for 3 months now (my first planted tank) but it doesnt seem healthy/happy  its growing  i guess they might be little shoots at the tips of the leaves and the leaves are getting a lot of polka dots thou lght initially that it might be it adjusting to my tank parameters but it hasnt improved in the last month there is one or two leaves that have completely died at this point but idk what nutrient they are lacking what is causing the black spots?  I dont want to just dump fertilizer in there and get algea if its not necessary...

Edited March 25, 2021 by Zdrube
Added picture

[KBOzzie59]

52 minutes ago, Zdrube said:

little shoots at the tips of the leaves

Those are new plants.  That and the dots are where new plants will start.  They do that when they are super stressed.  How is the rhizome? is it glued to that wood?  Can you get a picture of it?

[Zdrube]

1 hour ago, KBOzzie59 said:

Those are new plants.  That and the dots are where new plants will start.  They do that when they are super stressed.  How is the rhizome? is it glued to that wood?  Can you get a picture of it?

The rhizome isnt damaged from what i can tell now that i think about it they might be a little dirty? Should i clean off the rhizome/roots if it is? No the wood just had a little V groove it fit in and doesnt float out. Ill take some more picture's when i get home. 

[Zdrube]

2 minutes ago, Zdrube said:

Those are new plants.

I heard that they do this when they are very stressed out because they think they are going to die or something 😓

[Betsy]

Are you using any fertilizers at the moment?  Can we get some tank stats?  pH/GH/KH/nitrates?

[Zdrube]

20 hours ago, Betsy said:

Are you using any fertilizers at the moment?  Can we get some tank stats?  pH/GH/KH/nitrates?

No fert atm i wasnt sure what to use if i was to use some. (Ima noob) ph is around 7.2-7.4 kh is somewhere around 225 or 250? Nitrates are lowand  no nitrite. GH IS hardness right? Water is Hard around 150 maybe?

[Zdrube]

23 hours ago, KBOzzie59 said:

 Can you get a picture of it?

Its hard to get a picture of without removing the plant should i prune some roots maybe? Or will that make it worse?

Edited March 26, 2021 by Zdrube
Picture failed to upload, also ive never been able to get a picture of my shrimp and the one time i do its a photo bomb lol what a little troll 😅

[KBOzzie59]

No don't frim the roots the plant is plenty stressed right now.  You want to use a water column fertilizer like easy green.

 

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/collections/plant-supplies/products/easy-green-all-in-one-fertilizer

[Betsy]

Those stats seem good to me!  I was worried your GH might be low and that was causing issues, but it's not low...so...it's gotta be something else! 😊

The spots make me think potassium deficiency...so, I agree with @KBOzzie59: an all-in-one fertilizer like the Co-Op's Easy Green would be a good choice!

I'm still a little worried about the leaf curling...usually, the leaves on a java fern stay pretty flat.  Have you felt the rhizome?  If you squish it, and it's squishy, the plant might be is rotten!  If it's not squishy...definitely try the Easy Green!

Also...here's an awesome Co-Op Article about Plant Nutrient Deficiencies!

Good luck, and please keep us updated!!

Edited March 26, 2021 by Betsy

[Anita]

I believe Java Ferns are happiest in low light conditions. Your tank looks very bright. What sort of lighting are you using? 
Here is a snippet from the Aquarium Co-Op Java Fern Care Guide:

Quote

Java Fern will do best if provided with a 6700k spectrum bulb. Any range from low to medium-high light is perfect for this plant. At the very high end range of light, you can actually burn or melt it. 

 

[Patrick_G]

I would start with a good general fertilizer like Easy Green. Wait a few weeks and look for shoots coming out of the rhizome. If the current leave turn black you can trim them off to allow the plant to put energy into the new growth. 

[KBOzzie59]

If you do trim off the dying leaves and you want more plants just let them float around in your tank.  I've literally propagated hundreds of them this way.

[Zdrube]

17 hours ago, KBOzzie59 said:

No don't frim the roots the plant is plenty stressed right now.  You want to use a water column fertilizer like easy green.

 

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/collections/plant-supplies/products/easy-green-all-in-one-fertilizer

Ok i wasnt sure if easy green would fix the problem thank you 😊

[Zdrube]

14 hours ago, Patrick_G said:

I would start with a good general fertilizer like Easy Green. Wait a few weeks and look for shoots coming out of the rhizome. If the current leave turn black you can trim them off to allow the plant to put energy into the new growth. 

This one in the other corner has new growth starting . It has Two leaves but on of them is pretty bad the other just has a little spotting. Both curling.  But there is new growth. Should i snip off the bad leaf or wait til its dead dead?

[Zdrube]

16 hours ago, Betsy said:

I'm still a little worried about the leaf curling...usually, the leaves on a java fern stay pretty flat.  Have you felt the rhizome?  If you squish it, and it's squishy, the plant might be is rotten!  If it's not squishy...definitely try the Easy Green!

Also...here's an awesome Co-Op Article about Plant Nutrient Deficiencies!

Good luck, and please keep us updated!!

I didnt know the curling wasnt normal, Thanks for letting me know! I havent tried squiching the rhizome 

[Zdrube]

17 hours ago, Anita said:

I believe Java Ferns are happiest in low light conditions. Your tank looks very bright. What sort of lighting are you using? 
Here is a snippet from the Aquarium Co-Op Java Fern Care Guide:

 

Im using some t10 type of bulb idk what its rated at but i didnt think it was too bright maybe its that, i was going to get some floating plants you think that would help?

[Patrick_G]

5 hours ago, Zdrube said:

This one in the other corner has new growth starting . It has Two leaves but on of them is pretty bad the other just has a little spotting. Both curling.  But there is new growth. Should i snip off the bad leaf or wait til its dead dead?

I’d be inclined to clip off the left leaf. It’s going to take a little time, but I think it’ll recover. The new shoot is a good sign. 
 

[Jungle Fan]

Any time a leaf isn't visibly doing well, when it's yellow, brown, translucent, has holes, or is overly infested with algae it is generally best to cut it off and give the plant the opportunity to focus on new growth than to waste energy and nutrients on a leaf that won't recover. Java fern is very resilient, and given the proper nutrients and lighting it will recover. 

 

[Anita]

10 hours ago, Zdrube said:

Im using some t10 type of bulb idk what its rated at but i didnt think it was too bright maybe its that, i was going to get some floating plants you think that would help?

Ah, so this brings up more questions...🤔

A T10 bulb? All that tells you is the shape and size of the bulb, not how much light it puts out. T10 bulbs come in a variety of wattages, from 6W to 60W. How many watts (power), or better yet, the lumens (brightness), is the bulb rated? 

Is it an LED bulb? Or is it an incandescent or fluorescent bulb? A 4 W LED bulb draws only 4 W of power, but is nearly as bright as a 40 W incandescent or fluorescent bulb. The LED bulb product description, usually printed on the box, should specify what would be the equivalent wattage incandescent or fluorescent bulb. 

One source recommends for Java Ferns, using "1.5/2 watts of light for each gallon in your tank." For example, a 10-gallon tank should be lit with a bulb rated as the equivalent of a 15W-20W incandescent or fluorescent bulb. 

In your photo, the tank looks like it is in pretty bright room. Is this the case, or is it just bright for the photo? You may need block out the light coming in from the sides and top, in addition to what is coming from the bulb. 

Lastly, floating plants will provide shade. But don't forget that it could take weeks before they grow thickly enough to filter out enough light to make a difference. And floating plants will only screen light coming from the top.

Let us know what you do! 😎

 

 

[Zdrube]

3 hours ago, Anita said:

Ah, so this brings up more questions...🤔

A T10 bulb? All that tells you is the shape and size of the bulb, not how much light it puts out. T10 bulbs come in a variety of wattages, from 6W to 60W. How many watts (power), or better yet, the lumens (brightness), is the bulb rated? 

Is it an LED bulb? Or is it an incandescent or fluorescent bulb? A 4 W LED bulb draws only 4 W of power, but is nearly as bright as a 40 W incandescent or fluorescent bulb. The LED bulb product description, usually printed on the box, should specify what would be the equivalent wattage incandescent or fluorescent bulb. 

One source recommends for Java Ferns, using "1.5/2 watts of light for each gallon in your tank." For example, a 10-gallon tank should be lit with a bulb rated as the equivalent of a 15W-20W incandescent or fluorescent bulb. 

In your photo, the tank looks like it is in pretty bright room. Is this the case, or is it just bright for the photo? You may need block out the light coming in from the sides and top, in addition to what is coming from the bulb. 

Lastly, floating plants will provide shade. But don't forget that it could take weeks before they grow thickly enough to filter out enough light to make a difference. And floating plants will only screen light coming from the top.

Let us know what you do! 😎

 

 

First of all This was a lot of helpful information on lighting,  and second ill answer the questions. IDK the specifics on the bulbs ill have to double check before i do anything.

The room is lit well for me to see but it is a single LED bulb on the middle of the ceiling probably 10ft from the tank. When i turn off the tank light it is like night and day i can barely see anything in the tank i dont think it would be enough to be too much light. Also the tank is on the far side of the room from the window that is on the north side of the Home so there is never any direct sunlight or reflections on the tank... 

[Zdrube]

10 hours ago, Patrick_G said:

It’s going to take a little time, but I think it’ll recover.

Im still new to the whole plant 🪴 thing how much time is "giving it time" to see a change? Days? Weeks? Months? Lol

[Zdrube]

9 hours ago, Jungle Fan said:

Any time a leaf isn't visibly doing well, when it's yellow, brown, translucent, has holes, or is overly infested with algae it is generally best to cut it off and give the plant the opportunity to focus on new growth than to waste energy and nutrients on a leaf that won't recover. Java fern is very resilient, and given the proper nutrients and lighting it will recover. 

 

So would you say that clipping off the leaves in worst condition and then starting an aio fert is a good course or should i do vice versa? 

[Jungle Fan]

13 hours ago, Zdrube said:

So would you say that clipping off the leaves in worst condition and then starting an aio fert is a good course or should i do vice versa? 

Trim off the bad leaves, they are a waste of the plants energy and nutrients, then start the AIO. With plants there is no set time frame it can be  weeks, months; sometimes they just need time to recover before they get new growth. As long as they get no worse there is always hope but you'll notice when they get better.

PS: Just read your original comment again and in regards to adding ferts and getting algae, if you are overdosing past the recommended dosage for your tank, yes you might get algae, however if you aren't dosing the plants can die of malnutrition and algae will gladly take all the nutrients your plants aren't using and you end up with algae.

One way or another nitrate will appear in the water when you keep fish, snails, shrimp, it is the nitrogen cycle end product of fish waste which begins as ammonia/ammonium, dependent on pH level, and if plants aren't using the end product, either because there are no plants, or the plants aren't doing well and unable to because they are missing other nutrients then algae happily will. If you are taking care of your plants, your filter, and your substrate than they all work together to improve water quality and your plants will out compete algae every time.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Jungle Fan
PS

[Zdrube]

QUICK UPDATE: 

Im going to turn off the lights for now, i am ordering easy green today.

Found another little leaf shoot hidden in the cormer that is growing but its kind of translucent/ yellow/pale?. Im hoping turning off the lights to slow down the plants a bit while im waiting for the aio to come in. They will still get a little light during the day cause i leave my curtains open in my office but it will be minimal. I will start with this and try to post updates every few days. 

[Zdrube]

UPDATE: 

Added a root tab near the hairgrass in the tank (forgot to do it before planting ) it ended up causing a weird dust like algea bloom. I left it alone for a week with the dust in there and then did about a 30% water change when i got the fertilizer in, the java fern had already started to straighten out a bit before the water change,  during water change i pinched off the leaves that were really bad and left them in the tank (they had little sprouts on the tips). The one Java Fern that was the worst has improved a ton its straightened out a lot and the dots have reduced in size significantly. 

The only thing now is the ph seems to have raised significantly to about 8 to 8.2. Does anyone have a recommendation for this?