Hi! Intro and question

[Morpheus]

Hi Everyone!

I've been consuming as much content on here and the Co-op YT as I can.  I'm new to the hobby... my first project is to get a 20 long planted community tank going for the kids (three boys aged 3, 5, and 7) to enjoy.

I'm planning to start the tank in the next couple days with some java fern, various cryptos, christmas moss, and maybe some anubias.  After I get the tank cycling, I'll start slowly stocking with fish, etc.

 

Our wish list is long!

1 betta

3 dwarf red coral platy

6 cardinal tetra

3 african dwarf frog

1 bamboo shrimp

3 kuhli loach

1 clown pleco

Q1: Is this too much for a 20 long planted tank?

Q2: I should introduce the betta and the shrimp last, correct?  Does the order of introduction for the others matter that much?

 

Thanks in advance for the advice!

[CalmedByFish]

Hi Morpheus! Cool name.

Welcome to the hobby and the forum.

I was about the age of your kids when I first became excited about fish. Perhaps you're awaking a life-long joy for them. 🙂 

Others will have more experience to offer, but I've had 3 African Dwarf Frogs. They're going to be super hard to feed with other bottom-feeders in the tank. Really, I think they'd be hard to feed with any other species at all in the tank. That's definitely something to research. 

[CorydorasEthan]

28 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Hi Everyone!

I've been consuming as much content on here and the Co-op YT as I can.  I'm new to the hobby... my first project is to get a 20 long planted community tank going for the kids (three boys aged 3, 5, and 7) to enjoy.

I'm planning to start the tank in the next couple days with some java fern, various cryptos, christmas moss, and maybe some anubias.  After I get the tank cycling, I'll start slowly stocking with fish, etc.

 

Our wish list is long!

1 betta

3 dwarf red coral platy

6 cardinal tetra

3 african dwarf frog

1 bamboo shrimp

3 kuhli loach

1 clown pleco

Q1: Is this too much for a 20 long planted tank?

Q2: I should introduce the betta and the shrimp last, correct?  Does the order of introduction for the others matter that much?

 

Thanks in advance for the advice!

This is a great stocking plan for a 20 gallon long, especially a planted one. I don't think it's overstocked. About your second question, I would say introduce the loaches or the platies first, and then move on from there. Introduce the betta and the pleco last (so the pleco has some algae to graze on, although I heard that clown plecos aren't too fond of algae as bristlenose are). I don't know too much about bamboo shrimp, so I can't give any feedback on that, sorry.

Edit: I don't have any experience with dwarf frogs either, but I heard they can be a little hard to feed with a lot of other community fish in the tank.

But otherwise, sounds great, and I look forward to seeing some pictures. Hope this helps.

Edited March 24, 2021 by CorydorasEthan

[Fish Folk]

Welcome to the hobby! a 20 gal long will be beautiful for the whole family to enjoy. 

I do not know much at all about the African Dwarf frogs . . . so will need to ask your pardon for not addressing them here. In theory, this could work. But there are some cautions. First off, some Bettas _can_ be intense. It really depends on their personality. Platys are pretty easy going. The Cardinal Tetras are hit-and-miss with a community setup like this. They tend to prefer higher temperatures, and I suspect would prefer different parameters from the Betta of Platys -- though it's possible they'd make it. Black Neon Tetras are a bit more "bulletproof" though not as brightly colored. I'd say a group of 6 is minimum. I always go for a group fo 12, personally. Glow Light Tetras are lovely too. Bloodfin Tetras are really hardy. We also like Brilliant Rasboras. Just a few other options to consider. Shrimp tend to do best in very established, older tanks with lots of algae and mulm, and micro life built up over time. You might get fortunate, but I'd be a bit concerned about their longevity. Wood and plants go a long way towards solving certain challenges. I assume the loaches and Pleco will do well -- not much experience with loaches. Good luck! 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Fish Folk

[CalmedByFish]

Here's an idea. You could write out this list of critters, then write beside each species what range is okay for things like temperature, pH, GH, etc. Cross-referencing their needed water parameters might help you know which species can actually go well together in a single environment. 

[darkG]

I accidentally got a tank with a random array of fish. The cardinal tetras are extremely competetive for food, fast and first in line to pick up any crumb from surface, mid water and from the bottom. 

Either I feed a little and they don't get too bloated and the others starve, or I feed more and they get more fat than looks healthy. In my extremely limited experience, thus, a little bit tricky. 

[CalmedByFish]

9 hours ago, darkG said:

I accidentally got a tank...

... said everyone in this forum. 

[Morpheus]

Thanks everyone for your feedback!  I should have the plants (various crypto, anubias, and a java fern) early next week.

@CalmedByFishI took your advice and made a table of the critters with their temp, ph, and hardness preferences.  I'm going to target 76-77 degrees for the temp and 7.0 for the ph.  That should keep everyone happy.  For hardness, it looks like there may be a potential issue.  From what I've read, kuhli loaches like a soft water (3-5 dgh).  But the bamboo shrimp likes it a bit harder (6-8 dgh), and the clown pleco and dwarf platys like it even harder (10+ dgh).  I'll test my tap water this weekend to see what I'm dealing with at baseline, and go from there.

I've also heard that ADF can be hard to feed in a community tank.  What if I fed them in a breeder box?

 

[Fish Folk]

2 hours ago, Morpheus said:

I took your advice and made a table of the critters with their temp, ph, and hardness preferences.  I'm going to target 76-77 degrees for the temp and 7.0 for the ph.  That should keep everyone happy.  For hardness, it looks like there may be a potential issue.  From what I've read, kuhli loaches like a soft water (3-5 dgh).  But the bamboo shrimp likes it a bit harder (6-8 dgh), and the clown pleco and dwarf platys like it even harder (10+ dgh).  I'll test my tap water this weekend to see what I'm dealing with at baseline, and go from there.

I really like the recommendation from @CalmedByFish and want to encourage you for making this chart.

I also think that a chart provides good _guidance_ but not incontrovertible rules. Lots of parameters can surprise you. For example, we have a Molly colony going strong at exceedingly low pH (6.0) and really soft water (1 drop KH). That’s going to conflict with all recommended parameters and charts... but somehow life finds a way.

The best thing to do is try, fail, learn, and improve. Some fish are inevitably going to die as you journey through fish keeping. Major errors will happen. A lot of money will be wasted. But in the end, you’ll learn so much! It’s worth it all...

[Morpheus]

@Fish FolkThanks for the encouragement and advice!  You're absolutely right that I'm sure something isn't going to go right and fish or plants are going to get sick and/or die.  But I just want to make sure I do my research ahead of time to give them the best shot at it. 

But it's also encouraging that sometimes the recommendations for water parameters can be stretched a bit.  Thanks again!

[CalmedByFish]

15 hours ago, Morpheus said:

 

@CalmedByFishI took your advice and made a table of the critters with their temp, ph, and hardness preferences.  I'm going to target 76-77 degrees for the temp and 7.0 for the ph. 

I've also heard that ADF can be hard to feed in a community tank.  What if I fed them in a breeder box?

 

I'm glad that helped.

Something I just learned is to let your tap water sit out a day, then test its pH. It's hard to move the pH much, so it's best to aim for fish that are cool with whatever pH is coming out of the tap. 

For the ADF, unfortunately, I'm betting the answer is no. From what I understand, people who are serious about their frogs keep them in a species-only tank. That's what I've always done, and even so, it's really hard to make sure they're getting enough food. Though they're cute, they're so difficult that I'm sure I won't get another. I only have one left, and she'll have to be my last.