tetras: neons, green neons, or cardinals - which is best?

[Pepere]

On 5/30/2024 at 5:29 PM, Lennie said:

Personally, I am not a fan of wildcaught fish in general just for the pet keeping purposes, especially if there is an option for tank raised one. I always thought, it would be very limiting for fish that enjoys very wide swimming space and great conditions in the wild and end up in a small fish tank at home at some point of its life. 

I felt that way until I learned how many millions of fish are born during the rainy season as the river floods and die within 12 weeks as they become landlocked in pools cut off from the river and then the pools dry up and they become bird feed or compost…

 

being tank kept they have regular food, lack of predators.  I keep my plants well planted and provide hatched brine shrimp regularly as well as varied food to enrich their lives in the aquarium as much as I can…

[johnnyxxl]

On 5/29/2024 at 10:59 PM, clownbaby said:

Oh? I will research more, thank you!

Unfortunately my budget and resources are tight, the closest LFS that actually cares for fish is an hour drive, so big box stores are my best bet, and they aren't known to keep rare / new varieties. 

I understand the drive part, I have done that for everything I have gotten.  In my experience it's been worth the added drive for healthier fish and the one shop happens to be a co-op affiliate.  Just call around maybe you can find a shop with all of them and can see them all in big school's and buy the whole school 

[clownbaby]

On 5/30/2024 at 5:06 PM, Pepere said:

I felt that way until I learned how many millions of fish are born during the rainy season as the river floods and die within 12 weeks as they become landlocked in pools cut off from the river and then the pools dry up and they become bird feed or compost…

 

being tank kept they have regular food, lack of predators.  I keep my plants well planted and provide hatched brine shrimp regularly as well as varied food to enrich their lives in the aquarium as much as I can…

Hey please let's not do this um hi this makes me anxious, we don't need to talk about wild caught vs bred morals in this chat pls, this is about my stocking, I am not mad at either of you and there is no hard feelings but I really don't want to spark arguments please, again no hard feelings

❤️

I am not accusing anyone of arguing either! But I have had miscommunications like this in the past that have escalated, I really don't want that to happen again, please just keep things on topic and/or move this discussion to a different thread, WC or CB arguments is not what I asked for, thank you!

On 5/30/2024 at 2:29 PM, Lennie said:

An important aspect is being wild caught or tank raised.

If I am not mistaken, cardinals are primarily wc or raised in captivity but in the wilds. Green neons are directly wc.

Neons are commonly tank raised but can be hard to find a healthy stock. Wild caught fish may have issues adapting and can be finicky. Also are prone to parasites and such considerably more. Sometimes I come across a very good looking stock of these fish, but mostly it is just bad. I have seen many batches of cardinals dying when I visited a store and saw newly came stocks. Usually the ones we see that make it, the ones that stay alive and if quarantined, survives the qt.

 

Personally, I am not a fan of wildcaught fish in general just for the pet keeping purposes, especially if there is an option for tank raised one. I always thought, it would be very limiting for fish that enjoys very wide swimming space and great conditions in the wild and end up in a small fish tank at home at some point of its life. 

Wow... that is a great point. This is why I personally would never keep a fish in anything below a ten gallon - because I always feel so guilty about them feeling cramped. But going from freedom of space to a fish tank would be kinda sucky. 

Always, thank you for the information Lennie! So, would you not really recommend any of the tetras I was looking into? What is a good option? My mom and I are going tomorrow so I'm really trying to in info to help me decide.

Edited May 31 by clownbaby

[clownbaby]

On 5/30/2024 at 2:47 PM, mynameisnobody said:

There are pro’s and con’s to everything except pineapple on pizza, that’s always bad. 

haha, yeah... people would be appalled by my pizza order. "Can I get a vegan pizza with broccoli, mushrooms, artichokes, and pineapple?" I am kind of a monster I must admit

[mynameisnobody]

@clownbaby pineapple on pizza is highly offensive and it makes me anxious, let’s change the subject. 

[Lonkley]

You could get them all, they'll (probably) shoal together.

[macdaddy36]

On 5/30/2024 at 5:29 PM, Lennie said:

An important aspect is being wild caught or tank raised.

If I am not mistaken, cardinals are primarily wc or raised in captivity but in the wilds. Green neons are directly wc.

Neons are commonly tank raised but can be hard to find a healthy stock. Wild caught fish may have issues adapting and can be finicky. Also are prone to parasites and such considerably more. Sometimes I come across a very good looking stock of these fish, but mostly it is just bad. I have seen many batches of cardinals dying when I visited a store and saw newly came stocks. Usually the ones we see that make it, the ones that stay alive and if quarantined, survives the qt.

 

Personally, I am not a fan of wildcaught fish in general just for the pet keeping purposes, especially if there is an option for tank raised one. I always thought, it would be very limiting for fish that enjoys very wide swimming space and great conditions in the wild and end up in a small fish tank at home at some point of its life. 

My green neons from a large online store in Indianapolis claimed to be tank raised. I choose to believe this since they all came tiny, whereas I would expect wild caught to come in a variety of sizes.

I personally think wild caught is a lesser evil compared to the other industries the people in amazonas could do, like mining and logging the amazon rainforest.

There is a tank tested video that I like that goes into this

Edited May 31 by macdaddy36

[Lennie]

@Pepere @mynameisnobody @macdaddy36 

I didn’t want to go into ethical views much because that will go nowhere really. I can share my opinion, but I purposely only wanted to speak for animals side in my previous message and mentioned the difference

I approach this situation from the fish perspective really, rather than the potential job opportunities and such for humans. There are many industries that use animals and offer jobs for humans, but I refuse to support myself. Because animals are equal to humans to my eyes. I wont support animal testing firms or animal product firms. Those all firms also provide job opportunities for many people, that is against my understanding of animal love. So I personally just instead want to approach the situation from the perspective of the animal here as they are the ones to subject to any action as a result

Wild caught fish might have shorter lifespan and danger of being prey in the wild, but I bet none of us would prefer to live to our 200-300 years of ages with a good diet but in a well decorated jail, with a risk of being dead and stress of being caught to potentially exist in this scenario, travelling, adapting a new diet, changing numerous tanks until finding a home, and losing many fish during this journey. With ofcourse the risk of failing to reach this questionable good ending as a result. Many fish dont end up in good homes, or dont even end up alive. Especially for some fish DOA is crazy. I even remember someone saying seeing around %50 doas in a saltwater store but I cant remember correctly, whereas tanraised doa was around 1%. We all know the classic otos, wc altuma or many other wc fish really. Both saltwater and freshwater. Not only fish but its valid for many other species like starfish. Today, many species are still known to not do well at home tanks and still being caught and sold for money.

Imitating nature at home is basically impossible to me. One should probably offer thousands of gallons for a tang to satisfy their actual swimming needs only.

I agree that if they end up in good hands(sorry to say but usually unlikely, we are fish nerds here but only a few compared to many fishkeepers), they will be offered good food, low risk of being hunted, likely a longer lifespan. But no freedom whole their life, ending up swimming in not in an ocean or a huge lake, but living longer in a VERY limited swimming space instead. Id rather be free and complete my life as the nature foresees, rather than being fed pellets and live a bit longer but taking the risk of dying during all the procedures from being caught to ending up in someones home that will take care of me. None of us would like to spend another 100 years stuck in a small room with good food. Freedom matters 

Oh freedom matters for all fish imo too. I dont want to be dramatic about it, as we all just keep fish for our aesthetic views and such. All fish at home aquaria spend their entire life without any freedom. I fully support the adoption part in this case. Also we cant really release the fish we tankraised, but we can actually avoid collecting fish from the mother nature

Another issue is pathogens and immunity. Mixing the two tankraised and wc fish can be problematic in terms of pathogens overall, which can be problematic for both sides. The best saltwater LFS in my city once said they quit carrying tank raised clownfish (even though the best breeder in my city is their friend) because their customers face problems when they mix them with wc fish in their community tanks due to pathogens. That being said wc clownfish are well known for some diseases like brooklynella too.

 

@mynameisnobody if I visit the USA again, I will make you know. I will order you a pineapple pizza. With the biggest pineapple ever! You seem to love it man 😄

Edited June 1 by Lennie

[Lennie]

On 5/31/2024 at 3:35 AM, clownbaby said:

Wow... that is a great point. This is why I personally would never keep a fish in anything below a ten gallon - because I always feel so guilty about them feeling cramped. But going from freedom of space to a fish tank would be kinda sucky. 

Always, thank you for the information Lennie! So, would you not really recommend any of the tetras I was looking into? What is a good option? My mom and I are going tomorrow so I'm really trying to in info to help me decide.

Sorry mate, I saw this late. Was a busy day

I did not keep any of those fish myself (not a fan of blue red combination as colors). But cardinals are big and thick compared to others, and neons are hard to find a healthy stock of

I think out of these three, green neons are the best due to their small size. @macdaddy36 said his are tankraised. I would instead buy tr myself, but it is up to you. I even got my peapuffers tankraised before. Much healthier than a regular wc stock, with no deworming sessions and adapting issues. if you want regular neons and seem to find a healthy batch, you can go for it too.

make sure to google “neon tetra disease” and try to observe potential symptoms other than all regular health check in the store 

[Galabar]

The most hardy neons I've had are definitely the black neon tetras.  They tend to die of old age. 😉

However, of the three you mentioned, I'd guess the greens would be the most hardy.

[mynameisnobody]

@Lennie I’m a NYC Italian, you make your way over here and I’ll get you to the best pizza you’ve had in your life. You won’t find a pineapple for miles. Excellent write up, the only part I disagree with is animals and humans being equal. However, a difference in opinion is what makes the world go round. 

[clownbaby]

On 6/1/2024 at 12:40 AM, Galabar said:

The most hardy neons I've had are definitely the black neon tetras.  They tend to die of old age. 😉

However, of the three you mentioned, I'd guess the greens would be the most hardy.

After a lot of research I actually did end up getting black neons! They are super awesome so far. I love their little mouths and their red "eyelids" (my mom calls it eyeliner haha! she says we got a whole bunch of punk rock fish. gosh I love my mom). They were surprisingly bigger than I thought, but I think it is just because they are more "tall" (less streamlined) than other tetras I was looking into. 

Super excited for quarantine to be over so I can put them in my tank !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JE47]

I am glad you found some tetra's that you like I hope they do well. Can't wait to see pictures of them in your tank. 😄

[Galabar]

For black neon tetras, Aquarium Coop agrees with you. 😅