Discussion: what "oddball" technique has worked wonders for you?

[clownbaby]

What weird, uncommon, or controversial technique has worked for you? Whether it be for plants, fish, breeding, aquascaping, or something else! What is something that you don't see other people doing but is super helpful and effective?

I am really curious to see everyone's answers!

[NOLANANO]

IDK if its weird but I plop and drop when acclimating and almost never lose a fish upon release.  Just float the bag for 15-30 minutes and then pour them in a net and put them in a tank.  Theory being that the stress of being in the bag is worse for them than the stress of slightly different water parameters.  I have also read that once the bag is opened then their waste is converted to ammonia and so you get fish sitting in ammonia while you drip acclimate or however you choose to acclimate. I'm not a scientist so IDK if the ammonia thing is true but I can say that I get incredible results from plop and drop.

[macdaddy36]

That taller tanks are worse.

I find that with many small community fish, taller tank can be good because they stay in different parts of the water column.

For example in a short tank my apistogramma show lots of aggression but in a tall tank they are much more relaxed.

Or, in a short tank my Kuhli loaches hide constantly but in a tall tank they are much more often out and about.

I think that short, long tanks are good for some species but most can do well either way.

[Lennie]

On 5/10/2024 at 8:44 PM, macdaddy36 said:

That taller tanks are worse.

I find that with many small community fish, taller tank can be good because they stay in different parts of the water column.

For example in a short tank my apistogramma show lots of aggression but in a tall tank they are much more relaxed.

Or, in a short tank my Kuhli loaches hide constantly but in a tall tank they are much more often out and about.

I think that short, long tanks are good for some species but most can do well either way.

I disagree

 

I would rather see height as an extra positive side but wouldn't compare it to depth and lenght in general. At the end of the day, fish don't swim strictly up and down. Almost always swimming back and forth.

I am keeping my a.erythruras tio and triple red cacatuoides in 25cm high tanks with no aggression issues. I bet it was your tank's footprint and design. There is no way a tall 20g Hex tank is better than 20gLong for apisto if you ask me. Or to be fair, for any fish overall. Your apistos and kuhli loaches maybe acted in a better way  due to having dithers around on top or having more space. More space is always welcomed anyway

However, that does not make length and depth less important than the height tho. Believe me, shallow tanks work wonders except for tall species like angelfish or discus.  I have 17 shallow tanks and I have not seen any observable difference between shallow tanks and normal height tanks, excluding tall fish. It is all about the footprint. Some of my shallow tanks are 110x40x25cmh for example. Although they hold less water than my 50x50x50cube, they are much better for fish due the swimming space it provides. That being said, every fish that requires a tall tank, already needs the length and depth anyway.

 

In my experience, long and deep overstocked tanks with proper care and scaping are the happiest tanks. Tall but lacking lenght/depth or small tanks overall serve to the human eye or needs, not the fishes. The reason might be wanting to try a nano tank and finding tall tank aesthetically pleasing, lacking space, cost, or any other. But small or only tall tanks do not prioritise the fish needs if you ask me. 

Edited May 10 by Lennie

[Beach Cruiser]

Using a sinking, clear container with a small opening (i use a small glass vase) to assist feeding the small/shy tank mates.  Otos, etc...makes the angels & corys all cranky, but they're hardly starving. 

[clownbaby]

On 5/10/2024 at 2:55 PM, Lennie said:

I disagree

 

I would rather see height as an extra positive side but wouldn't compare it to depth and lenght in general. At the end of the day, fish don't swim strictly up and down. Almost always swimming back and forth.

I am keeping my a.erythruras tio and triple red cacatuoides in 25cm high tanks with no aggression issues. I bet it was your tank's footprint and design. There is no way a tall 20g Hex tank is better than 20gLong for apisto if you ask me. Or to be fair, for any fish overall. Your apistos and kuhli loaches maybe acted in a better way  due to having dithers around on top or having more space. More space is always welcomed anyway

However, that does not make length and depth less important than the height tho. Believe me, shallow tanks work wonders except for tall species like angelfish or discus.  I have 17 shallow tanks and I have not seen any observable difference between shallow tanks and normal height tanks, excluding tall fish. It is all about the footprint. Some of my shallow tanks are 110x40x25cmh for example. Although they hold less water than my 50x50x50cube, they are much better for fish due the swimming space it provides. That being said, every fish that requires a tall tank, already needs the length and depth anyway.

 

In my experience, long and deep overstocked tanks with proper care and scaping are the happiest tanks. Tall but lacking lenght/depth or small tanks overall serve to the human eye or needs, not the fishes. The reason might be wanting to try a nano tank and finding tall tank aesthetically pleasing, lacking space, cost, or any other. But small or only tall tanks do not prioritise the fish needs if you ask me. 

I disagree.

 

I do not think overstocked tanks would ever be the happiest. Typically I agree with the fact that streamlined longer tanks are preferable, but it depends on the set-up and the needs of the fish. Many freshwater fish do live in environments with deep water ; this must also be kept in mind. Kuhli loaches are naturally found in slow-moving streams & rivers in Borneo. While they spawn in shallow streams, they live in deeper waters (at least 0.5 meters deep, but usually deeper). Naturally, a shallow stream will be clearer, meaning any movement could be seen from above. Then they are subject to hunting from predators. It makes sense that with their cautious nature and bottom dwelling habit they would be more comfortable with even more space above them. This makes them more hidden, which they (and many other species) thrive like this.

You could argue that all tanks should be substantially tall and wide for optimal care... that, I am fine with. But claiming that wide overstocked tanks are the happiest is misleading to newcomers in the hobby, and I would personally feel it is misleading to intermediate and experienced fishkeepers as well.

I will say however, it is dependent on the species. But in general, having lots of space above would be reasonably comfortable for all fish (just some more than others.)

[macdaddy36]

I’m not saying that that short long tanks are terrible, what I want to say is that tall tanks aren’t bad.

What I was trying to get at is that length is as important as depth and height for the average community fish.

Many common species will utilize all areas of the tank, like livebearers, bettas, gouramis, etc.

I think that both have advantages depending on what species you keep and the combination of species.

Going back to the apistogramma example.

A common tank mate for them is pencilfish. I would argue that while a 20 long is good for a pair of apistos, a 20 high, 29 or 37 gallon is far better suited for keeping them together. 

[johnnyxxl]

On 5/10/2024 at 1:44 PM, macdaddy36 said:

That taller tanks are worse.

I find that with many small community fish, taller tank can be good because they stay in different parts of the water column.

For example in a short tank my apistogramma show lots of aggression but in a tall tank they are much more relaxed.

Or, in a short tank my Kuhli loaches hide constantly but in a tall tank they are much more often out and about.

I think that short, long tanks are good for some species but most can do well either way.

I can see how that would work 

I cycled my tank with tons of plants in the tank just because I was itching to have something in my tank.

[HelplessNewbie]

I got these two tricks from someone else's topic (sorry can't remember whose): how to feed freeze dried foods to bottom dwellers. These foods tend to float directly to the water surface, so I put them in a weighted upside down cone feeder with a string, or in a diy trap from a water bottle. The trap is the kind with the top half inverted, then fitted into the bottom half. The bottom half has a hole and the space between them is where you place the food. Fish enter through the funnel and eat the food, then exit through the bottom half's hole. I perforated with small holes to allow the trap to sink better. Plug the bottom half's hole and it converts to a trap.

[HelplessNewbie]

On 5/10/2024 at 7:06 PM, Beach Cruiser said:

Using a sinking, clear container with a small opening (i use a small glass vase) to assist feeding the small/shy tank mates.  Otos, etc...makes the angels & corys all cranky, but they're hardly starving. 

Oh, duh, why did I have to complicate things by making a bottle trap?

[Lennie]

On 5/11/2024 at 2:16 AM, clownbaby said:

I disagree.

 

I do not think overstocked tanks would ever be the happiest. Typically I agree with the fact that streamlined longer tanks are preferable, but it depends on the set-up and the needs of the fish. Many freshwater fish do live in environments with deep water ; this must also be kept in mind. Kuhli loaches are naturally found in slow-moving streams & rivers in Borneo. While they spawn in shallow streams, they live in deeper waters (at least 0.5 meters deep, but usually deeper). Naturally, a shallow stream will be clearer, meaning any movement could be seen from above. Then they are subject to hunting from predators. It makes sense that with their cautious nature and bottom dwelling habit they would be more comfortable with even more space above them. This makes them more hidden, which they (and many other species) thrive like this.

You could argue that all tanks should be substantially tall and wide for optimal care... that, I am fine with. But claiming that wide overstocked tanks are the happiest is misleading to newcomers in the hobby, and I would personally feel it is misleading to intermediate and experienced fishkeepers as well.

I will say however, it is dependent on the species. But in general, having lots of space above would be reasonably comfortable for all fish (just some more than others.)

Hobby is not nature. That is an important point to keep in mind. With this mentality, it would be impossible to keep many fish (especially so many community tanks that everyone does right now), corals and anemones that exist in the freshwater, ocean or seas to start with. OR basically anything really until we perfectly have what nature has. Consider how high a regular home tank is no matter what. Imagine reflecting the need of a depth of an ocean fish or coral directly by using the same height at home. Technically we cannot keep everything alive in the home aquaria, but we do for many too, that comes from very different requirements and depth. 

None of us can serve what nature does. Our home tanks are limited with what we introduce to an X liters of a glass tank at home. Even a glass of water from a regular pond or a lake would be nothing like a glass of tank water at home.

Besides everything that exists in the water of a natural freshwater and saltwater biome and the natural balance, it is basically impossible to imitate what nature goes through. Even on a daily basis. Seasonal changes. Their effect on eating habit and breeding. And numerous other things.

In our home tanks;

-we use  mosses, plants(which are commonly not even fully submersed in nature at all but you keep them this way at home aquarium) woods and rocks that come from all around the world from different places,

-we do not reflect the seasonal and daily changes by any means, match "natural" water parameters, try to imitate their "nature" by using pvc pipes, pleco caves or cichlid caves which surely does not exist in the nature at all,

-feed them so many different foods that besides not reflecting their seasonal feeding system, commonly not reflecting what they directly eat in nature at all. That being said majority of the food being the flakes or pellets itself, and nature does not dump in flakes/pellets once or twice a day;

-use botanicals and woods/sticks and rocks that probably don't even exist in their nature in that region,

-keep fish, plants, corals and woods from all around the world with different needs in the same tank, that being said the "fish" here probably subject to selective breeding for ages to look better to the human eye and nothing like their wild counterpart, which makes the fish itself not a part of the nature as it is

-using filters, artificial lights, heaters that keep the tank stable temp all day and year long and many other equipments... co2 dosing, high tech setups, Aquascapes...

-Stocking fish, critters, snails, corals, anemones and shrimp from all around the world in the same tank.

- Only wanting what's pleasing and positive to the eye of us. A regular introduction of a leech, pest snail, detritus worms or a parasite directly leads people to use of medication/treatment and getting rid of anything we don't want in, where they are plenty in nature. 

-And most importantly, water sitting in an X gallon of glass, with no freedom. Only stocked and look as we please.

How is that nature? How do we reflect nature here? 

And you think I mislead people by saying well maintained and properly designed/planned overstocked tanks result in happier fish is misleading? Well, that's my experience that ranges from very lightly stocked tanks to crowded well balanced overstocked tanks with a fishroom of 24 tanks. I share my experience and I say it directly, not saying it as a scientific fact. If you ask me, fish don't like being isolated and much happier in a good peaceful community tank. Even the shyest of my fish start dancing around and swimming freely if they are kept in a well maintained and scaped overstocked tanks. I would appreciate to hear from anyone that has the opposite experience for a peaceful community tank. And by overstocking, I don't mean dumping in 60  different same level swimming tetras in a 30g tank ofcourse. Any reasonable person may understand what's being meant here

 

Also, as they home aquariums are limited by every perspective and are not truly a part of the nature, many stuff that works in the nature may fail hard in the hobby. HAve you ever seen a regular discus in nature? And how pristine the tanks and water parameters are in general for hobby discus keeping? OR their natural diet being mostly algae based and changing seasonally depending on the rainy and dry seasons, while discus in the hobby being almost totally fed like carnivores?

There are soooo many things to discuss until it comes to the difference between 25 cm to 35 height difference being misleading and comparing it to the nature of the fish. Both does not reflect the true nature of natural height anyway. Especially considering the water levels can be even subject to change based on the season itself

 

Edited May 11 by Lennie

[clownbaby]

On 5/11/2024 at 2:53 AM, Lennie said:

Hobby is not nature. That is an important point to keep in mind. With this mentality, it would be impossible to keep many fish (especially so many community tanks that everyone does right now), corals and anemones that exist in the freshwater, ocean or seas to start with. OR basically anything really until we perfectly have what nature has. Consider how high a regular home tank is no matter what. Imagine reflecting the need of a depth of an ocean fish or coral directly by using the same height at home. Technically we cannot keep everything alive in the home aquaria, but we do for many too, that comes from very different requirements and depth. 

None of us can serve what nature does. Our home tanks are limited with what we introduce to an X liters of a glass tank at home. Even a glass of water from a regular pond or a lake would be nothing like a glass of tank water at home.

Besides everything that exists in the water of a natural freshwater and saltwater biome and the natural balance, it is basically impossible to imitate what nature goes through. Even on a daily basis. Seasonal changes. Their effect on eating habit and breeding. And numerous other things.

In our home tanks;

-we use  mosses, plants(which are commonly not even fully submersed in nature at all but you keep them this way at home aquarium) woods and rocks that come from all around the world from different places,

-we do not reflect the seasonal and daily changes by any means, match "natural" water parameters, try to imitate their "nature" by using pvc pipes, pleco caves or cichlid caves which surely does not exist in the nature at all,

-feed them so many different foods that besides not reflecting their seasonal feeding system, commonly not reflecting what they directly eat in nature at all. That being said majority of the food being the flakes or pellets itself, and nature does not dump in flakes/pellets once or twice a day;

-use botanicals and woods/sticks and rocks that probably don't even exist in their nature in that region,

-keep fish, plants, corals and woods from all around the world with different needs in the same tank, that being said the "fish" here probably subject to selective breeding for ages to look better to the human eye and nothing like their wild counterpart, which makes the fish itself not a part of the nature as it is

-using filters, artificial lights, heaters that keep the tank stable temp all day and year long and many other equipments... co2 dosing, high tech setups, Aquascapes...

-Stocking fish, critters, snails, corals, anemones and shrimp from all around the world in the same tank.

- Only wanting what's pleasing and positive to the eye of us. A regular introduction of a leech, pest snail, detritus worms or a parasite directly leads people to use of medication/treatment and getting rid of anything we don't want in, where they are plenty in nature. 

-And most importantly, water sitting in an X gallon of glass, with no freedom. Only stocked and look as we please.

How is that nature? How do we reflect nature here? 

And you think I mislead people by saying well maintained and properly designed/planned overstocked tanks result in happier fish is misleading? Well, that's my experience that ranges from very lightly stocked tanks to crowded well balanced overstocked tanks with a fishroom of 24 tanks. I share my experience and I say it directly, not saying it as a scientific fact. If you ask me, fish don't like being isolated and much happier in a good peaceful community tank. Even the shyest of my fish start dancing around and swimming freely if they are kept in a well maintained and scaped overstocked tanks. I would appreciate to hear from anyone that has the opposite experience for a peaceful community tank. And by overstocking, I don't mean dumping in 60  different same level swimming tetras in a 30g tank ofcourse. Any reasonable person may understand what's being meant here

 

Also, as they home aquariums are limited by every perspective and are not truly a part of the nature, many stuff that works in the nature may fail hard in the hobby. HAve you ever seen a regular discus in nature? And how pristine the tanks and water parameters are in general for hobby discus keeping? OR their natural diet being mostly algae based and changing seasonally depending on the rainy and dry seasons, while discus in the hobby being almost totally fed like carnivores?

There are soooo many things to discuss until it comes to the difference between 25 cm to 35 height difference being misleading and comparing it to the nature of the fish. Both does not reflect the true nature of natural height anyway. Especially considering the water levels can be even subject to change based on the season itself

 

I am here to remind you what this forum stands for. Please reflect on your tone - it seems very judgemental, harsh, and quite frankly just plain disrespectful in a very overbearing way. There is a good chance you do not know this is the case, and there is also a good chance I am oversensitive (which, I am). But this forum does stand for CARE -  Community Aquarists Respect Each Other. I am sorry to say I haven't felt respected by you. 

I will say, I am seventeen. I've been in this hobby for barely 2 years. I have two tanks and I have made mistakes. I know very little about who you are as a person, but you genuinely have made me feel incredibly belittled, unfortunately. I am willing to engage with you and debate in a fun and educational manner that remains respectful, and while I do hope this was your intent, I have not received that message from you. I am sorry if I came off as defensive, but I wanted to share my opinions as well, as this is a 'discussion'. You are a very credible source, but I disagree with you a lot with what you said... that is that. 

I may be the sensitive one, but regardless, my boundary has been stated: please speak constructively and respectfully, or I will not engage. If you do not want me to engage with you, do not engage with me: simple! 🙂

 

Now, to respond to what you had said:

This is all very very true. There is nothing natural about fish tanks. There is also nothing natural about me walking my dog on a leash, me keeping my bird feeder full over the winter, or me feeding my baby kitten's cows milk. None of that is natural... but why do I do so? Because I love these animals and would like them to succeed and live the best life they could. My dog loves his walks, and him and I have lots of fun. I love watching birds and the birds love the fact that they can easily access food in the harsh winter. I love my cats, and they love the milk - they are young (8 weeks currently, we rescued them at 5 weeks) and need a lot of liquid foods. This is likely nothing more than a difference in our personal values and perspectives, but you are indeed very wrong to say that I -- or any other aquarist -- has set up aquariums solely for our own enjoyment. Both me and my dog benefit from walks; both me and my wild birds benefit from winter suet; both me and my kittens benefit from supplemental feeding... even though these things are not natural. I benefit from my aquarium because it gives me hope and a genuine reason to live, helping a lot with my mental health disorders, and my fish and snails get a large tank with weekly water changes, live foods, and lots of care each day. I feel confident to say these animals are happy living in my tank.

Would they be happier with a bigger tank? Absolutely.

But again, would my dog be happier with a longer leash? YES! He would! Would my birds be happier with year-round food? Yes, of course! Would my kittens be happier with real cat milk over cow's milk? Certainly!

But are they happy, loved, and cared for as it is right now? Absolutely. 

There does come a certain point when no care for any animal will be natural. You can make this argument over and over and over again. No matter how pristine, self-sustaining, and native a biotope aquarium is, an aquarium itself will never be natural. That is a fact. But I can tell you I see an entire difference from pygmy cories as a species in my planted aquarium versus my old aquariums that had spongebob decor and neon gravel. While we can literally never provide 100 percent perfect care for our animals-- as owning an animal in itself will never guarantee perfect care-- , we should strive to get as close as we can. If you truly felt that natural environments had no relevance in this hobby, there would be no problem keeping 5 angelfish in a fish-bowl with neon gravel. Because that is not natural, either... but one is worse than the other. If there is enough evidence and knowledge/experience to say certain species benefit from lots of room above them, then we should mimic that! Our fish deserve that. 

So no, I did not mislead anyone. I do stand with what I said: aquariums should be understocked, as natural as possible, and customized to the specific species needs.

You certainly overgeneralize this community... if I remember, you told me not to encourage algae growth simply for aesthetics. I have detritus worms, "pest" snails, daphnia, copepods, and scuds running rampant in my tank. And I have a bit of algae.

[Odd Duck]

On 5/10/2024 at 6:06 PM, Beach Cruiser said:

Using a sinking, clear container with a small opening (i use a small glass vase) to assist feeding the small/shy tank mates.  Otos, etc...makes the angels & corys all cranky, but they're hardly starving. 

Interesting.  Like a bud vase type shape?

[mynameisnobody]

Opinion posts, gotta love em. 

[Beach Cruiser]

On 5/11/2024 at 10:48 PM, Odd Duck said:

Interesting.  Like a bud vase type shape?

Yes. This one has roundish base & tapers to a narrow neck. Maybe 6-7" tall...

[gardenman]

If you've got a duckweed issue (and who doesn't?) modifying a cheap (under $20) surface skimmer from Amazon (Marine Color SunSun Aquarium Protein Surface Skimmer is what I'm using) by enlarging the holes in the floating strainer, will convert it into a duckweed vacuum and clear your tank of obvious duckweed in minutes.  By far the neatest oddball trick I've ever used. You don't want to use it if you've got small fry that hang out high, but if you've got duckweed and want to get rid of it, that will do the trick. My snails love to climb inside it also. I'm not sure why they're drawn to it, but they are, so I handpick them out when I clean it.  

[doktor zhivago]

On 5/10/2024 at 1:44 PM, macdaddy36 said:

That taller tanks are worse.

I find that with many small community fish, taller tank can be good because they stay in different parts of the water column.

For example in a short tank my apistogramma show lots of aggression but in a tall tank they are much more relaxed.

Or, in a short tank my Kuhli loaches hide constantly but in a tall tank they are much more often out and about.

I think that short, long tanks are good for some species but most can do well either way.

I really like my tall 37 gallon for this reason. I get layers of creatures and it seems like the vertical separation helps keep the inter fish aggression down too

[Sammy]

Thanks for the sponge matten bottom on the under gravel filter idea, @gardenman. The powerheads on the lift tubes super-charged the filtration too (I also hook my drain tube to the powerhead outlets for easy, small water changes - doesn't stress out the fish at all). 

I now sculpt Tikis, cliffs, rock formations with the sponge foam and they are the cleanest and most stable tanks I have. Plants root into the foam easily (although I use mostly 'easy' column feeding plants) and I make "ponds & rivers" to put crushed coral ( my water needs the buffer),  lava rocks and even 4-5mm glass beads into for added punch, I even hid a UV filter behind a 'cliff/ rock formation. No more tedious substrate vacuuming! My wife lets me have all the tanks I want because we're not buying expensive dirt/sand/substrate and spend so little time cleaning tanks (which she despises). Grow out tanks with that setup are by far my most stable and productive - no worries about tiny fry being sucked into intakes or vacuum tubes. Cherry shrimp love it too. 

Just started a 20 gallon CPD "Tiki Tank"and even my teenage son puts down the video game to snip/ cut sponge with me. He cut some long pieces to look like coconut trees (gonna top the off with java fern) 😁   If this old, stupid tablet would let me attach a pic, I'd show it to you...

Anyway,  thanks again. It's made me enjoy aquarium keeping again.

Super low maintenance,  tons of biofiltration area... that was a great "oddball" idea. You rock. 👍

Edited May 12 by Sammy

[HelplessNewbie]

On 5/12/2024 at 9:40 AM, Sammy said:

sponge matten bottom on the under gravel filter idea, @gardenman

Oh, I would love to see a picture or video. I hope this will be in a topic I can search.

[Sammy]

As good as it gets for pics on the new 20gal. 

The 37 gallon tall are full of wood, plants, fish, decor, etc. They stay super clean. One has a hair algae problem because it's right near the south window. 

[Guppysnail]

Everyone in the hobby has differing opinions. Focus on the original question of oddball things you use.  If this topic continues to be a hostile debate it will be locked and warning points issued. 

[gardenman]

@Sammy

Yeah, it's a good system. Tons of surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow on. People don't tend to think of a horizontal Matten filter on top of an undergravel filter grid, but it works well and solves some of the drawbacks of a regular Matten filter. 

[Cory]

Controversial is in the original question. This comes up once or twice a year where posters start venturing into more topics that end up causing fighting among the members. Don't post controversial questions/topics. Also everyone needs to get  along or I'll be forced to ban people. You can ignore people, you can let each person have their own opinion. Not everything needs a public response. You can report to mods if you feel something is out of line. It's not your job to prove someone else wrong. We are here to help those who ask.