Water help

[Jonny]

Hi. 

We live in an area where we have a in-ground Well water and also a water softener. I have a 60 gallon tank. Below are my test results, ammonia is at a constant 0. Any recommendation on how to improve it except RO water? I’m trying to get into shrimps but with these water parameters they won’t live. 

 

[lefty o]

have you actually tried shrimp in your water?

[Jonny]

Yes. Seems like they dye off after a few weeks. Talked to the local guy that sells shrimp and he thought it was my well water or shocking due to water change. 🤷🏽

[Tony s]

I have also got a water softener. Bad news first. You can’t use that water. The residual salt left over from the softener will build up over time. Which immediately rules out any live plants. And will stress out your fish. Possibly permanently.  
it seems like we should be able to. But the people in the know keep telling me no. 
 

now. We can bypass the softener and use straight from the well. The next thing is how’s your iron coming from your well. Mine has tons. Turns sidewalks rusty red. If that’s the case you’re back to not being able to use your water. It must be RO water. Possibly could use about 50/50 from the well mixed with RO

Guessing with the shrimp it is the salt. Too much. If the shrimp are a neocaradina. They should like the harder water 

[Guppysnail]

There is a bypass switch on almost all water softeners.  Bypass the unit and draw your water you can heat a dish in the microwave to get it close to your tank temperature for water changes.  
Once you bypass the unit your parameters will be fine for neocaridina and plants.  
Don’t forget to un-bypass the unit when you are done.  Seems that’s something I forget to do a lot..ask my hubby 🤣

[macdaddy36]

On 3/6/2024 at 12:35 AM, Tony s said:

I have also got a water softener. Bad news first. You can’t use that water. The residual salt left over from the softener will build up over time. Which immediately rules out any live plants. And will stress out your fish. Possibly permanently.  
it seems like we should be able to. But the people in the know keep telling me no. 
 

now. We can bypass the softener and use straight from the well. The next thing is how’s your iron coming from your well. Mine has tons. Turns sidewalks rusty red. If that’s the case you’re back to not being able to use your water. It must be RO water. Possibly could use about 50/50 from the well mixed with RO

Guessing with the shrimp it is the salt. Too much. If the shrimp are a neocaradina. They should like the harder water 

I have a water softener and while I'm certainly not the best at growing plants they do just fine. I don't keep any shrimp but my parameters are very similar to the ones in the picture.

[Tony s]

On 3/6/2024 at 8:24 AM, macdaddy36 said:

I have a water softener and while I'm certainly not the best at growing plants they do just fine. I don't keep any shrimp but my parameters are very similar to the ones in the picture.

I would have thought so too. But everyone says no. But…. What does everyone know 🤣  we finally gave up with it. May have been the insane iron causing our issue. Even with the softener, things turned red from the iron bacteria. We eventually added a hydrogen peroxide system as well. To eliminate it. Also eliminates the cycle. We have our RO system plumbed into the refrigerator and drinking water. It has 3 pressurized tanks that give me around 20 gallons in 10 minutes. 
 

 

[lefty o]

On 3/6/2024 at 7:24 AM, macdaddy36 said:

I have a water softener and while I'm certainly not the best at growing plants they do just fine. I don't keep any shrimp but my parameters are very similar to the ones in the picture.

this is correct. ive always had a water softener, i also have tons of plants in my tanks. dont listen to old wives tales. the salt is only trace amounts, and it doesnt build up if you do water changes. now if you just add water to a tank, everything builds up, but if you do water changes the trace amount of salts in the water get removed with the change, but of course you put in more trace amounts of salt with the new water. ill double down on the salt nonsense, and tell you i add salt to my planted aquariums. not a ton, but more than any water softener is putting in the water.

[Guppysnail]

Agree with the salt info and plants but if you want shrimp you either need to add minerals to replace the calcium the softener strips out or bypass the softener. Your shrimp must have what the softener removes. 

[Jonny]

Thanks for all the input! Really appreciated.
I’ve been running this tank since September last year and my plants seem to be happy, especially since I started using Easy green fertilizer. 

I’ll have to test my water before the softener which is easy as we have an outlet in the crawlspace. I believe the iron might be a problem for me as well though. 

Another thing I’ve been recommended is using the water from our refrigerator which has a filter in it. Anyone tried that? That’s not quite RO water but extra filtered, still through the softener. 
 

[Tony s]

On 3/6/2024 at 9:22 AM, Jonny said:

Thanks for all the input! Really appreciated

You’re very welcome 

 

but… now I’m really confused as to what I should/could be doing. I thought I had my situation figured out. But maybe I’m causing myself more trouble than it’s worth? 

[Tony s]

On 3/5/2024 at 11:52 PM, Jonny said:

Any recommendation on how to improve

Looking again at your test strips. What you really need is the gh to be higher. @Guppysnail has a method for using cuttlebone in a hob that works perfectly for your water

The rest of the parameters look very good 

[Jonny]

 

On 3/6/2024 at 9:14 AM, Tony s said:

Looking again at your test strips. What you really need is the gh to be higher.

I’m going to try working on my increasing water hardness. I’ve order Wondershell last week which is supposed to help with that. 

[Tony s]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:51 PM, Jonny said:

I’m going to try working on my increasing water hardness. I’ve order Wondershell last week which is supposed to help with that. 

it does. but the cuttlebone is @Guppysnail's idea, and I'm currently fascinated by that. I believe it may be cheaper as well.

[Jonny]

On 3/6/2024 at 9:53 PM, Tony s said:

it does. but the cuttlebone is @Guppysnail's idea, and I'm currently fascinated by that. I believe it may be cheaper as well.

I see. Sorry but where do I find that? I’m always open to cheaper lol

I ran some test a few minutes ago. A these are my parameters out of the fridge (filtered), tap water after the softener and straight well water. 

[Tony s]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:57 PM, Jonny said:

I see. Sorry but where do I find that? I’m always open to cheaper lol

most pet stores. it's actually made for pet birds. to give them calcium. you have to take the metal clips out and place in your hob (if you have one). she says it wants to float. which shouldn't' matter in a hob i'm thinking

[Tony s]

or as she pointed out today. water softeners have a bypass. which leaves you with very hard water but in the right proportions. and you wouldn't need to do much else. 

[Tony s]

or even mix your unsoftened water with RO water and you could be sitting at near perfect water. and that would open up a whole range of possibilities. although @jwcarlson raises discus and rams in that exact water. actually 85% of the US does. It's just the east coast and northwest and some of the gulf coast that has softer water.

I think for your shrimp, they need the calcium and magnesium that was being stripped from your water. 

 

and trust me, i know what you're dealing with. I have your exact water, thought i had serious problems with it. Put in a bunch of money converting my drinking water RO system to something I could use for the aquariums. Now my head hurts and my mind is spinning. I do not know what to think about the softened water anymore.

[Galabar]

The direct well water looks very good.  I would use that.

 

[jwcarlson]

This is purely anecdotal, but I have seen fish get stressed and have losses when water changing (frequent changes) with water softener water.  But after switching to straight tap no softener no issues.  I can't tell you why, but it felt like that was a factor in some stress.  

[Guppysnail]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:53 PM, Tony s said:

it does. but the cuttlebone is @Guppysnail's idea, and I'm currently fascinated by that. I believe it may be cheaper as well.

The Cuttle bone is the slowest method. For times when you only need a little booster. I used it with birthing guppies and snails who need a hint of extra calcium. The wondershell is very fast and fluctuates the water quick but it least reliable stability wise. 
The long term mid speed but most stable method is crushed coral. 

For water that has the calcium stripped I do not think cuttlebone is enough. However if you have snails and shrimp throwing some Cuttle bone in for them to graze on is fantastic. 

@Johnny your well water looks identical to my tap. My neocaridina thrive.  That’s the cheapest most stable route. 

[Jonny]

On 3/7/2024 at 5:36 AM, Guppysnail said:

@Guppysnail

Thank you for your advice and input. I’m learning a lot! 
I’m leaning towards trying to use my Well water. 
Do you not get a lot of iron buildup from the water though? Or do you treat your water with something? I’m assuming you preheat some of the water to achieve the right or close temperature. 

[Guppysnail]

On 3/7/2024 at 10:18 AM, Jonny said:

Thank you for your advice and input. I’m learning a lot! 
I’m leaning towards trying to use my Well water. 
Do you not get a lot of iron buildup from the water though? Or do you treat your water with something? I’m assuming you preheat some of the water to achieve the right or close temperature. 

I don’t have iron issues. The only time I do is if I use fertilizer, so I just do not use fertilizers.  I also do weekly 50 % water changes on shrimp tanks so nothing builds up and concentrates the way it does by only topping off for evaporation.  
 

I boil a little water in the microwave or I just use the hot tap water that’s in the hot water heater.  That has already run through the water softener but the little bit of that added to tap that was drawn bypassing the softener makes no difference.  Our water is so hard that tiny dilution and tiny amount of salt has never affected my fish plants or shrimp. 

[RichNJ]

Perplexed over the watersofter as well.  I have 22gh tap water and have only used water softner treated water in my tanks.  I also occassionally add Fritz salt for disease management in my 55g tetra tank and added two teaspoons per 5g in my liver bearer 20L tank.

Had a discussion here on salt with Amanos, and most seem to suggest that it is okay since they breed in brackish conditions.  https://forum.aquariumcoop.com/topic/34287-aquarium-salt-and-amano-shrimp/

More recently, we are debating if my instant Amano die-off was due to the water softener plus the added Fritz salt to my 20L liverbarer tank here.  All other fish are doing fine, even in my 55g tetra tank.  Link to the dicussion is here:

https://forum.aquariumcoop.com/topic/37315-my-troubles-with-amano-shrimp/

@Guppysnail @Jonny

[lefty o]

On 3/13/2024 at 11:33 AM, RichNJ said:

Perplexed over the watersofter as well.  I have 22gh tap water and have only used water softner treated water in my tanks.  I also occassionally add Fritz salt for disease management in my 55g tetra tank and added two teaspoons per 5g in my liver bearer 20L tank.

Had a discussion here on salt with Amanos, and most seem to suggest that it is okay since they breed in brackish conditions.  https://forum.aquariumcoop.com/topic/34287-aquarium-salt-and-amano-shrimp/

More recently, we are debating if my instant Amano die-off was due to the water softener plus the added Fritz salt to my 20L liverbarer tank here.  All other fish are doing fine, even in my 55g tetra tank.  Link to the dicussion is here:

https://forum.aquariumcoop.com/topic/37315-my-troubles-with-amano-shrimp/

@Guppysnail @Jonny

ill double down, i use water softened water in my tanks, and i add salt to the tanks on top of that. never had an issue with my amanos doing this, nor my fish, nor my plants. pretty much every animal on the face of the earth needs some salt in its diet. co-op Cory uses tons of crushed coral, anybody want to guess how much salt is in coral? i dont know the answer, but its more than what a water softener is putting in your water. if you cant taste the salt in your tap water (you should not be able to, if you can, something is wrong with your softener) its not enough to bother anything.