Lotus Bamboo?

[dasaltemelosguy]

Anyone ever try this emergent? They were labeled as "Lotus Bamboo". I just planted these and an Umbrella Palm that I bought from a pond supply house. Really pretty, I hope they live! 😲

 

 

 

[Guppysnail]

Really pretty. Did you check how tall those grow?  Are they also going to threaten your skylight? 🤣 I really like the compact leaf look.  
Plantlife Project did several videos on trying different emergents. I know Umbrella palm was one they said did very well in tanks. I remember because I looked for them last year. They really are stunning. 

[Lennie]

Those severums are looking great! How am I supposed to focus on bamboos in these pics when they are there. Mission impossible 😄 

Also is that a dojo loach? One of my dream fish to have 🙂 please share its pic! 

[Biotope Biologist]

That dojo loach is a chonk! I love it! 10/10 photobomb too!

 

According to garden supply stores they prefer similar conditions to lucky bamboo but are slower growers, so hopefully they do well.

[dasaltemelosguy]

On 4/17/2023 at 10:51 AM, Lennie said:

Those severums are looking great! How am I supposed to focus on bamboos in these pics when they are there. Mission impossible 😄 

Also is that a dojo loach? One of my dream fish to have 🙂 please share its pic! 

Thank you, that's very kind of you to say. And right. Dojo's. Maybe not the prettiest fish but definitely the most fun one! They have no fear. They nibble on your fingers and let you hold them in your hand. I can even raise them out of the water and then they calmly swim away when I let them down. Like little seals! Noisy though. They sound like an old typewriter when they eat and if you scare them, they squeal like a mouse. Vacuuming is challenging with them. They're always following it and I've had them swim into it to grab something delicious! A weird but delightful fish.

Here's a few more:

Severums and Dojos;

Curmudgeons;

Tank Boss;

[Lennie]

On 4/17/2023 at 9:20 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

Thank you, that's very kind of you to say. And right. Dojo's. Maybe not the prettiest fish but definitely the most fun one! They have no fear. They nibble on your fingers and let you hold them in your hand. I can even raise them out of the water and then they calmly swim away when I let them down. Like little seals! Noisy though. They sound like an old typewriter when they eat and if you scare them, they squeal like a mouse. Vacuuming is challenging with them. They're always following it and I've had them swim into it to grab something delicious! A weird but delightful fish.

Here's a few more:

Severums and Dojos;

Curmudgeons;

Tank Boss;

Thank you!! 🧡😊

[Expectorating_Aubergine]

Those are draceneas, probably fruticosa. They are terrestrial plants. Everyone that grows them successfully has them as emergent. You can grow them on dry land too. Many terrestrial plants can grow with their roots submerged in water.

[Odd Duck]

On 4/17/2023 at 2:57 PM, Expectorating_Aubergine said:

Those are draceneas, probably fruticosa. They are terrestrial plants. Everyone that grows them successfully has them as emergent. You can grow them on dry land too. Many terrestrial plants can grow with their roots submerged in water.

I was just about to say this but with less info to back it.  Looks like another plant in the lucky bamboo family which is Dracaena sanderiana.

Google is semi-helpful, it looks like your Lotus bamboo is Dracaena deremensis or Dracaena compacta.  I haven’t yet found an article that says which is the more current name.  Seems like it should grow just like your lucky bamboo so it should be happy enough in that tank.

Nice find!  Severums and dojos are looking good!

And cranky tank boss.  😆 

[Expectorating_Aubergine]

Good catch on the species 👍. I guess all the fruticosas I deal with at work got me thinking that. I find Google to be super helpful with plant ID. Admittedly, there is somewhat of a knack to googling effectively....

[PineSong]

I love the facial expressions on your severums and the curmudgeons! I can hear the curmudgeons complaining from here.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 4/17/2023 at 2:57 PM, Expectorating_Aubergine said:

Those are draceneas, probably fruticosa.

On 4/19/2023 at 1:02 PM, Odd Duck said:

Looks like another plant in the lucky bamboo family which is Dracaena sanderiana.

Google is semi-helpful, it looks like your Lotus bamboo is Dracaena deremensis or Dracaena compacta.

So, the genus Dracaena has recently been in taxonomic flux.  D. fruticosa is now D. angustifolia.  D. sanderiana is now D. braunii.  D. deremensis is now D. fragrans.  And D. compacta is as of yet unevaluated.  I realize that doesn't narrow it down, but there are also hybrids out there at this point complicating things (as they always do).  So, without details it's hard to say.  And honestly with the taxonomic ambiguity it's hard to say anyhow. 

[Ben Z]

Heh heh my first post.

 

OP.. in my part of the world (right on the equator) these plants are very common as decorations during certain festivals. Ppl plonk them into vases of tap water and 99% of the time they do just fine. Taxonomical ambiguity isn't an issue IMO if u got yours commercially, there are only so many (few!) horticultural species/varieties profitable enuf to be sold. 
 

So yes they will grow as long as temperature, humidity and such arent too low. Only time I had them die on me was when an AC unit was blasting away at its leaves 

PS:

 

sometimes when I'm setting up a new tank, I donk a bunch of these into the water, but then I get busy with work and leave them for WEEKS just floating around. They live and grow. Benign neglect. I've even thrown some whole into vermicompost piles and found them growing happily  couple of months later. 

[Expectorating_Aubergine]

On 4/19/2023 at 8:26 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

So, the genus Dracaena has recently been in taxonomic flux.  D. fruticosa is now D. angustifolia.  D. sanderiana is now D. braunii.  D. deremensis is now D. fragrans.  And D. compacta is as of yet unevaluated.  I realize that doesn't narrow it down, but there are also hybrids out there at this point complicating things (as they always do).  So, without details it's hard to say.  And honestly with the taxonomic ambiguity it's hard to say anyhow. 

Lol, speaking of taxonomy in flux..... the genus sanseveria, snake plants aka mother inlaws tongue, has been combined into dracenea. Now they're all draceneas!

[Ben Z]

On 4/20/2023 at 3:08 PM, Expectorating_Aubergine said:

Lol, speaking of taxonomy in flux..... the genus sanseveria, snake plants aka mother inlaws tongue, has been combined into dracenea. Now they're all draceneas!

the PhDs need something to do right? Honestly... the taxonomical debates get too picky sometimes. For the non-scientist, honestly, who cares? The mother-in-law's tongue my grandmother's grandmother's grandmother planted is basically the same plant i have in my yard now.
 

Imagine if u go to the doctor and u say, doc, I caught the flu, and he says: the flu doesn't exist anymore. It was never a formal medical term to begin with. It's the common name for an umbrella of respiratory tract symptoms that can be caused by any number of pathogens or environmental causes. Now, let's see... hmmm... I can't determine exactly what you have without ordering twenty-nine swabs and a series of PCRs. Uh. Let's just say you have non-specific URTI, kay? It's what people commonly call the flu.

[Guppysnail]

On 4/20/2023 at 3:19 AM, Ben Z said:

It's what people commonly call the flu.

I’m terrible with scientific names. I rely on the fantastic knowledge of folks kind enough to share it with me like @OnlyGenusCaps to navigate plants. 
I was so delighted with the look of @dasaltemelosguys lotus bamboo I went to my local nursery to find some. 
Knowing the importance of the scientific names I printed out pictures with names of several types that closely resembled the lotus and their science names so I did not order the wrong thing. 
When they showed me the order form it seems my nurseries supplier has gone “the flu” workaround route. The listings were: 

Asst. small, Asst. medium and Asst. large dracaena

😝🤣🤣🤣

Edited April 20, 2023 by Guppysnail

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 4/20/2023 at 2:08 AM, Expectorating_Aubergine said:

Lol, speaking of taxonomy in flux..... the genus sanseveria, snake plants aka mother inlaws tongue, has been combined into dracenea. Now they're all draceneas!

And there may be more to come.  That genus is pretty big now, and those tend to get broken up.  Though who knows, Euphorbia has managed to weather the storm, and that genus contains everything from annual weeds, to trees, to semi-aquatics, to succulents.

On 4/20/2023 at 2:19 AM, Ben Z said:

For the non-scientist, honestly, who cares? The mother-in-law's tongue my grandmother's grandmother's grandmother planted is basically the same plant i have in my yard now.

It's true, the plants themselves don't change as the names do.  I think for me, what's cool about gaining this better understanding is that it opens my eyes to how different groups came about and fit together.  In think with plants it can feel obscure, but with animals it seems more visceral.  So, hopefully it is okay if I give some examples from that clade instead.  Sansevieria are a monophyletic group (they are all related to each other), but they are nested within the Dracenea.  It means, those succulent leave that set them apart, really are unique within the group in that way.  But they emerged from within a group that are all otherwise really similar in many other ways.  In fact, this situation is very similar to snakes!  Which feels fitting given that Sansevieria are sometimes called "snake plants".  Snakes are a group that are all related, but it turns out they are a group within the lizards; not a group apart from them.  Which seems crazy!  Like, it would feel weird to say that agamas and lacertas are not both lizards, but to pull snakes out that's what we would have to do.  Snakes are also only one lineages of legless species within the lizards, a very successful one, but just one.  Now, knowing this, we can ask questions like - "Why do lizards keep loosing their legs?!"

It gets even more interesting too.  Like there is no way to make a group called "fish" that includes the lobe-finned fishes (think lungfish and coelacanths) and doesn't include, well...  Us!  So if lungfish = "fish" ∴ human = "fish" too.  *Side note* - I am not advocating for keeping small humans in glass boxes.  Especially not filled with water.  🤪   But how cool is it that people who keep lungfish have something in their tanks more closely related to the keeper than to the tetras they make have in, hopefully, another tank?!  I fully give you that knowing any of this doesn't change the organisms, but it sure changes how I think about them! 

“There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception.” ― Aldous Huxley

[Ben Z]

On 4/20/2023 at 9:35 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

  I fully give you that knowing any of this doesn't change the organisms, but it sure changes how I think about them! 

“There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception.” ― Aldous Huxley

As a nerd, I fully agree. I love reading up on this stuff. But there are times when taxonomy, as a discipline, has gone a bit crazy. 
 

that aside, what I think is counter-productive is to rely on scientific names when BUYING plants/fish/what-have-you. how many merchants have that level of knowledge? Even a professional botanist, say, might specialise only in one very particular type of plants and know nuts about others. Not to mention the problem of the flu workaround - hahahaha. 
 

And... I like to drool over fish profiles on the aquariumglaser website, and many of their posts have caveats saying that they are not 100% sure of the species of the fish they're featuring.
 

(Like the one in December featuring auriglobus - "in all probability they are...") if anyone is interested, basically they said there are five species of auriglobus, not one as previously thought, but all five are "darn similar". Well, I have three avocado puffers in quarantine in a smallish tank now, and there's no way I can be sure if they're modestus or not without cutting them up (and maybe not even then...) In cases like this, the common name might be more "accurate" than the Latin. Think of it this way, it can be said that "avocado puffers (or golden puffers or whatnot) are defined by the aquarium trade to be puffers of a certain appearance and behaviour, and belonging to one of five species in the auriglobus genus." 
 

 

 

 

[Ben Z]

OP... something I forgot to add. Sometimes they can die from the root up (start to yellow). Too many possible causes to list... but I've lived with these plants for decades, and it seems that the yellowing happens most often in aquariums if the plants are damaged when ppl roughly stuff them into the substrate n damage the node. Also, use a bit of wax on exposed plant tissue when propagating them - a tip from the gardeners of my grandmother's era. Throw out any plants that show signs of yellowing- can't be saved and oftentimes it spreads 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 4/20/2023 at 9:27 AM, Ben Z said:

what I think is counter-productive is to rely on scientific names when BUYING plants/fish/what-have-you

Respectfully, I disagree strongly with that.  I think we should be aiming for better taxonomic clarity.  It can impact a lot of what we as hobbyists do, up to and including breeding.

On 4/20/2023 at 9:27 AM, Ben Z said:

Not to mention the problem of the flu workaround

I won't address that directly as it is clearly a strawman.

On 4/20/2023 at 9:27 AM, Ben Z said:

and many of their posts have caveats saying that they are not 100% sure of the species of the fish they're featuring

To me this is a problem that we should aim to rectify as best as is possible.  What if the similar looking species prefer different parameters, or you order twice from them thinking they are the same species and can't figure out why they won't breed (or they do and you end up with unintended hybrids), or one order is a larger or more aggressive species?  Any of these could result in negative impacts to the hobbyist, all because of incorrect species ID.  This happens with different algae eater species, to the frustration of many hobbyists. 

On 4/20/2023 at 9:27 AM, Ben Z said:

In cases like this, the common name might be more "accurate" than the Latin.

I would argue that in this case common names might be easier to use, but they are not more "accurate".  Indeed, by purposely incorporating ambiguity they are intentionally less accurate. 

On 4/20/2023 at 9:27 AM, Ben Z said:

it can be said that "avocado puffers (or golden puffers or whatnot) are defined by the aquarium trade to be puffers of a certain appearance and behaviour, and belonging to one of five species in the auriglobus genus.

Essentially this is just codifying a separate vernacular, as opposed to formal, taxonomy.  It doesn't address the issues you have raised about the formal Latin names.  Let's say a new species in the genus was discovered that differed in meaningful ways for husbandry, would this still be an "avocado puffer" but now identifiablly different, or would a new name be required for this species?  What if it was only identifiable after time, like adult aggression differs?  Of if the only difference was this new species couldn't genetically interbreed with the 5 others that could do so among the older group?  Does this require categorizing it, or not in this case?  My point is that whatever metrics of taxonomy one selects, the same problems will arise. 

Anyhow, I'll leave it there.  I fear I have already taken us too far down the garden path from @dasaltemelosguy's original topic about a cool looking new plant he is growing.  My apologies!

[Ben Z]

On 4/21/2023 at 12:23 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Respectfully, I disagree strongly with that.  I think we should be aiming for better taxonomic clarity.  It can impact a lot of what we as hobbyists do, up to and including breeding.

I won't address that directly as it is clearly a strawman.

To me this is a problem that we should aim to rectify as best as is possible.  What if the similar looking species prefer different parameters, or you order twice from them thinking they are the same species and can't figure out why they won't breed (or they do and you end up with unintended hybrids), or one order is a larger or more aggressive species?  Any of these could result in negative impacts to the hobbyist, all because of incorrect species ID.  This happens with different algae eater species, to the frustration of many hobbyists. 

I would argue that in this case common names might be easier to use, but they are not more "accurate".  Indeed, by purposely incorporating ambiguity they are intentionally less accurate. 

Essentially this is just codifying a separate vernacular, as opposed to formal, taxonomy.  It doesn't address the issues you have raised about the formal Latin names.  Let's say a new species in the genus was discovered that differed in meaningful ways for husbandry, would this still be an "avocado puffer" but now identifiablly different, or would a new name be required for this species?  What if it was only identifiable after time, like adult aggression differs?  Of if the only difference was this new species couldn't genetically interbreed with the 5 others that could do so among the older group?  Does this require categorizing it, or not in this case?  My point is that whatever metrics of taxonomy one selects, the same problems will arise. 

Anyhow, I'll leave it there.  I fear I have already taken us too far down the garden path from @dasaltemelosguy's original topic about a cool looking new plant he is growing.  My apologies!

youre absolutely right in fact. i agree with everything you said. it's just that we live in an imperfect world. species misidentification happens more often than we'd like... and sometimes common names are more useful than Latin names in a non-science context, because those dont change much. not that they dont have their problems... as for accuracy, i was going off on a philosophical tangent. 

on sometimes species identification.. it sometimes requires more than having a live specimen. the writeup in the following link illustrates this very well: https://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish-archives/lebiasina-cf-multimaculata-2/

 

 

and yea , let's not hijack the thread anymore; cheers n happy fishkeeping =)

[dasaltemelosguy]

I'm sure you guys are correct. Dracaena compacta seems to be it:

Dracaena compacta

Not that I'll ever remember!  I once spent months measuring the nitrate uptake of Dracaena sanderiana and I still had to look it up to write this!

The only Latin I never seem to forget is:

[Ben Z]

On 4/21/2023 at 1:08 AM, dasaltemelosguy said:

I'm sure you guys are correct. Dracaena compacta seems to be it:

Dracaena compacta

Not that I'll ever remember!  I once spent months measuring the nitrate uptake of Dracaena sanderiana and I still had to look it up to write this!

The only Latin I never seem to forget is:

as long as you can remember the names of the chateaus ~