PH/GH/KH

[penguinexdeus]

Need help figuring this out -

I'm on well water with a water softener.  Out of the tap my GH/KH are basically 0.  Right from the tap my PH is about 7.5.  However after letting water sit/ aerate for a bit my PH goes to 8.2 .  I've been having problems keeping some fish that like more acidic water.  The only tanks i have that are close to neutral/ below have CO2 injection.  I think this may be part of my issue.

What can I use to help lower my pH?  I'd prefer not to go back to buckets so something I can use with a python while filling would be good.  I do use buckets to remove water during water change so i have a rough idea how much I'm removing.  The only PH lowering products i've found have directions that discuss how much to dose to remove 1 dKH.  Since I have 0 I don't know how much that would drop me.  I also need to remineralize and i've purchased a few products to increase GH and/or KH instead of just throwing a wondershell in.

Any suggestions from anyone in the same boat?  I don't want to/ can't bypass the water softener.

TL/DR - Softened well water with PH of 8.2 & GH/KH both 0 - how do I get it neutral and re-mineralized?

[ChefConfit]

You need some buffer to prevent swings, and wood/almond leaves are natural ways by to help lower pH. Seachem makes several pH lowering and/or stabilizing products, I'm sure other manufacturers do as well. Acid buffer and neutral regulator are the first 2 that come to mind from seachem. There are also products for Blackwater that lower pH like Fritz Darkwater. 

[penguinexdeus]

I guess part of question is also if I remineralize first will it prevent the upswing or raise ph itself also?  Not sure what order I should do things or what I can add directly to tank.

[varanidguy]

40 minutes ago, penguinexdeus said:

I guess part of question is also if I remineralize first will it prevent the upswing or raise ph itself also?  Not sure what order I should do things or what I can add directly to tank.

If you remineralize using only GH, then it will have no affect on your pH. It is necessary to remineralize your water with GH, especially for plants.

 

Do you know what the TDS of your tap water is? If you do indeed have zero KH, a very effective way of having a reliable soft water tank is to use an active substrate such as Amazonia, Controsoil, et al. They will keep your water buffered to a pH of typically anywhere between 6.0-6.8 depending on the product.

 

Those substrates aren't cheap, but the right ones work very well. If you're interested in knowing more about them, I can chat about them further.

Another option is adding peat granules to your filter, and as stated above, almond leaves and driftwood will help lower the pH. I typically like to avoid commercial buffers unless I'm working with 0 TDS water as raising the TDS of water that isn't at 0 to start could be detrimental.

[penguinexdeus]

Not sure what my TDS is. I have driftwood in all my tanks, but doesn't seem to affect my ph - even in the tank where it's still leeching tannins out.  I have controlsoil in my one tank with co2 and oh three is about 6.6.  My other tanks have inert aquarium sand.

[varanidguy]

1 hour ago, penguinexdeus said:

Not sure what my TDS is. I have driftwood in all my tanks, but doesn't seem to affect my ph - even in the tank where it's still leeching tannins out.  I have controlsoil in my one tank with co2 and oh three is about 6.6.  My other tanks have inert aquarium sand.

To be honest, driftwood is so mild that I'd be surprised if it could be used as a proper buffer.

 

You already have experience with quality aquarium soil, so in your shoes I'd use that personally. Unless that tank will have heavy sifters that would make a big mess of it. And if your KH is consistently 0-1 degree from the tap, it shouldn't negatively affect the aquasoil. 

[tolstoy21]

2 hours ago, penguinexdeus said:

I guess part of question is also if I remineralize first will it prevent the upswing or raise ph itself also?  Not sure what order I should do things or what I can add directly to tank.

Seachem Equilibrium will raise your GH. Seachem Alkaline Buffer will raise your KH.

Setting your KH is what usually what determines what PH your water will stabilize at. KH can be moved by other factors, like C02 injection, organics or rocks that precipitate calcium and bicarbonates (crushed coral or Texas Holey Rock--aka limestone--for example). But in general, you can just target a KH with an alkaline buffer product, and unless you have a ton of the other stuff in your aquarium (like big chunks of limestone), you'll  be fine.

There are others products on the market, and methods, for adding/boosting GH/KH as well,  but I only have experience with the Seachem products. Both of these can be added directly to the tank. However, Equilibrium can make the water a pretty cloudy until it settles out. I usually added these things to my water change water bucket and let that circulate and dissolve for a day so. 

Seachem's website has great instructions and a support forum for using either of these products.

As for keeping more acidic water. I have 0 KH in my water and keep it pretty stable between 6.4 - 6.8 by adding a bunch Indian almond leaves to the tank. So far this has kept the PH in my more blackwater tanks on the acidic side of things. Fluval PLANT & Shrimp Stratum substrate also has this buffering effect, keeping the PH closer to 6.5.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by tolstoy21

[Eric R]

It's my understanding that water softeners replace mg and ca ions with sodium ions, so if you're keeping fish that prefer soft water, you may want to do some research as to what affect this extra sodium could have on your fish, especially if you plan to further add minerals to your water to increase hardness. You should probably get a TDS meter, in addition to your gh and kh test kits, you can get them pretty cheap. 

[Colu]

In stead of fighting pH get fish that  are suitable for your local water conditions

[tolstoy21]

I’d be curious if anyone has anecdotal or actual observations of the effect of sodium from softened water on aquarium fish.

Seeing Cory dump briney water from his shrimp hatcheries into his tanks and those tanks thriving seems suggest that the actual amount of sodium introduced by ion exchange would be negligible in comparison.

The real challenge I would think with softened water would be the resultant low-levels, or lack of, calcium, magnesium, etc (aka GH) of the softened water. I’d think that’s more likely to cause tank issues if your have nothing re-mineralizing the water.

(Being a good internet citizen, I’m speculating here, but when I ponder the subject that’s the conclusion I come to without any real evidence — but that’s the inter webs way!).

Edited December 12, 2020 by tolstoy21

[penguinexdeus]

One tested my water for specific gravity with a refractometer that I use for my brackish tank. My tap is 1.000.  My local fish store keeps a lot of salt in their tanks (3 tbsp/ 5 Gal) and water from their store measures 1.002.  Never had any issues with my softened water other than trying to remineralize for a lower ph.