White Algae?

[PerceptivePesce]

On 2/24/2023 at 8:04 PM, evonner said:

You mean a couple are worrying you now (months after this happened)? You should never let your fish "just roll with it". You should have upped the water changes to 50%. You can go up to 50% water changes but its not advisable to do more than 50% as it can reset the cycle.

I didn't realize there was a problem until a couple weeks ago when I started this thread.  Perhaps I was delusional and subconsciously ignoring signs,  but I didn't just let their acknowledged sickness roll- in fact, i dosed as soon as i realized there was a problem.  I've ordered expel-p and will dose it next Thursday because they still ain't actin' right.

Two 30% WCs is a 50% WC, and it did nothing to lower nitrites.

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/24/2023 at 9:40 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

Two 30% WCs is a 50% WC, and it did nothing to lower nitrites.

Is this still happening?

There's got to be a source in the tank.

I assume, maybe unjustly, that when you first mentioned the high test that the 5.0 was max on the scale. Could've been 10 and that's why the value was still high after WCs. You can run a dilution test and try to equate what the real value is.

Take tank water, add 50% tap, test it. Multiplying the results accordingly.

[evonner]

Did you do the (2) 30% W.C.'s at the same time, one right after another and the nitrites did not go down?  And I agree if your still getting the high nitrite reading (5.0) then you do need to see if they are actually higher but @nabokovfan87 if she has been running nitrites at even a true 5.0 on this long I would think all her fish would be dead. And I think I remember her saying she had snails, they defininelty cannot tolerate water conditions like that. Another thought too is she is using RO water so something just doesnt add up. She also treated the tank with antibotics and the fish could be having effect from that treatment also. I thought I read all the posts and this was originally a possible fin rot issue. I dont recall anything about high nitrites until the last couple of post. And I believe we asked about her water parameters and there wasnt any high levels of anything but I could very well be misremembering.

[PerceptivePesce]

I do not currently have high nitrites.  My nitrites are reading 0, and have been 0 for a few months.

What im trying to convey: This vague sickness I'm currently seeing in my guppies may be the consequences of nitrite poisoning from 2-3 months ago when I did fish-in cycling.  I don't know if that's how it works, but it doesnt seem irrational to assume that my guppies may have incurred internal organ damage during the high nitrite phase of my cycling process and are just now starting to show signs of sickness.

I hope that makes sense.

Also, my guppies seemed to get better when I dosed antibiotics and antifungal.  But now they seem to be deteriorating again.  Last night i saw one suck tiny food in and spit it out.  I've never witnessed that before and if I understand correctly that is a classic parasite symptom.

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/25/2023 at 7:14 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

What im trying to convey: This vague sickness I'm currently seeing in my guppies may be the consequences of nitrite poisoning from 2-3 months ago when I did fish-in cycling.  I don't know if that's how it works, but it doesnt seem irrational to assume that my guppies may have incurred internal organ damage during the high nitrite phase of my cycling process and are just now starting to show signs of sickness.

I hope that makes sense.

Yes it does make sense.

When I see nitrites or ammonia spiking my first move is to always add air and to add salt and dechlorinator.

This usually helps perk fish up and the salt can help them to recover / fight off poisoning sickness.

As far as now, maybe that's something that can help with time as well as treatment.  A few weeks on salt, a few weeks off. 

In terms of the meds helping, then stopping, maybe you need to run 2-3 weeks straight to get them fully cured and time to heal.  I believe it was @Pepere's post about how the duration of the meds is critical.  How people tend (not saying you, but generally speaking out loud) can "feel better" and then not finish the course of treatment for the antibiotics and then their body reacts poorly as a result.

I would recommend trying to give rest as well as try to fully heal the fish if you're seeing issues like reported.  I genuinely hope for the best and a full recovery.  Get well soon little fish!

[evonner]

I agree to start API Aquarium Salt Treatment at this point. This treatment will stress and/or could kill your plants. Its best to do this treatment in quarantine/hospital tank or container set up. Irene has a video on this. If you havent seen it, I can link it to you.  A plastic storage container can work just as well. Needs airstone and heater.

You bought the supplies to setup a quarantine/ hospital tank, is large enough to fit all the the fish that were exposed the the high nitrites?  All the fish that were exposed need treatment regardless of symotoms.  Do you still have the salt dosage information? There are different dosage recommendations based on severity. They will need an airstone and heater. 

BTW: A guppy spitting out it food is normal. I usually see that with pellets.

FYI -Below is just some quick info on nitrite poisoning:

Nitrite poisoning occurs when the substance binds to the hemoglobin, leading to fish suffocating due to a lack of oxygen in the blood. As such, fish keepers experiencing high nitrite levels should be vigilant about keeping an eye out for nitrite poisoning symptoms. Here’s what a few of them are:

• Gills moving rapidly
• Fish gasping and straying near the water surface for more oxygen
• Fish showing signs of lethargy or listlessness
• Brown gills
• Lack of appetite
•  
• Aquarists can reduce nitrite levels by conducting an emergency 50 percent water change. This will help dilute toxins harmful to fish and give your tank’s ecosystem time to catch up.
• Another solution to nitrite spikes is adding cycled filters to help build beneficial bacteria numbers faster.
• Using a water conditioner to bind the nitrites and render them harmless to the fish can temporarily solve a high nitrite crisis.
• Nitrite levels beyond 0.2 ppm can affect delicate fish, and anything beyond 4 ppm can be fatal. High nitrite levels induce nitrite poisoning, which can cause fish to die from a lack of oxygen in the blood.
• Fish keepers can avoid nitrite spikes by regularly testing the water, conducting regular water changes, avoiding overfeeding, and being careful when deep cleaning the fish tank.

[PerceptivePesce]

There is a fry with what I think is mouth fungus.  It looks like he has a piece of food stuck in his mouth but I fed them over 10 hours ago.  

@ColuColumnaris?

[Colu]

On 2/27/2023 at 1:17 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

There is a fry with what I think is mouth fungus.  It looks like he has a piece of food stuck in his mouth but I fed them over 10 hours ago.  

@ColuColumnaris?

Have you got a picture of the fry does it have a fuzzy appearance or just look like a white patch on the mouth 

[PerceptivePesce]

On 2/26/2023 at 7:53 PM, Colu said:

Have you got a picture of the fry does it have a fuzzy appearance or just look like a white patch on the mouth 

Best pic I could get:

I fed them 15 mins ago.  He tried to eat, butted the piece of food quite a few times, and gave up.  It was tragicly remarkable how his mouth plug looked exactly like the food, same color & size.

[Colu]

It difficult to off your picture but it looks more like a lump what I would do is quarantine and treat with aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 1 gallon for one week @PerceptivePesce

[PerceptivePesce]

On 2/26/2023 at 8:48 PM, Colu said:

It difficult to off your picture but it looks more like a lump what I would do is quarantine and treat with aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 1 gallon for one week @PerceptivePesce

Thank you for your posts. 

Thanks to everyone else, too.  I'm setting up my qt now. A 10g and 1g.

@Colu what does this lump make you think it is? Parasite?

[Colu]

On 2/27/2023 at 2:58 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

Thank you for your posts. 

Thanks to everyone else, too.  I'm setting up my qt now. A 10g and 1g.

@Colu what does this lump make you think it is? Parasite?

Lumps on the mouth can be caused by number of things so it difficult to give a definitive diagnosis  give me an update after a week of salt if theirs no improvement or it gets worse 

[PerceptivePesce]

@Colu I tried to catch the fry before bed last night.  I wasn't able to so I gave up and went to bed.  This morning his mouth spot looked smaller and he was able to eat when I fed the tank.  Does this info help dx?

After feeding, I caught the fry like a pro (took 10 seconds), and put him in 1g of remin rodi water treated with salt.  I have a tiny heater that only does 78F in the qt, and the spare airpump is way too strong so there isn't one in there atm.

Edited February 27, 2023 by PerceptivePesce

[Colu]

On 2/27/2023 at 4:00 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

@Colu I tried to catch the fry before bed last night.  I wasn't able to so I gave up and went to bed.  This morning his mouth spot looked smaller and he was able to eat when I fed the tank.  Does this info help dx?

After feeding, I caught the fry like a pro (took 10 seconds), and put him in 1g of remin rodi water treated with salt.  I have a tiny heater that only does 78F in the qt, and the spare airpump is way too strong so there isn't one in there atm.

If the lump sinking it could be a fluid filled cyst or an injury that caused some inflammation of tissue around the mouth I would still do the week of salt and monitor you could get a bleeder value for air pump to reduce the air flow coming from the pump 

[The endler guy]

On 2/14/2023 at 3:24 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

I saw a guppy flashing earlier today.  She skipped along the gravel, 3 flashes.  Is that a definite sign of parasite?

I have a UV light in my canister.  I never use it.  Would that be helpful?

 

Anyone got recommendations for bulk carbon?

@Colucan correct me if I’m wrong but  isn’t the occasional flash okay? Isn’t it basically the equivalent of them scratching an itch (that is if it is very occasionally and isolated)

[Colu]

On 2/27/2023 at 5:11 PM, The endler guy said:

@Colucan correct me if I’m wrong but  isn’t the occasional flash okay? Isn’t it basically the equivalent of them scratching an itch (that is if it is very occasionally and isolated)

As long as they only do it occasionally it's ok if there doing all the time then I would be concerned fish often do this when theirs high levels of ammonia or nitrite can cause fish to flash and ich and other external parasites such as Gill flukes I would always check my water parameters first before anything else 

[PerceptivePesce]

The flashing Ive seen has been rare.  I'd say the chronic symptoms I'm seeing are color loss (some turn semi-transparent), fin fraying, not eating, wasting.  Ive also culled quite a few when they develop hunch back, not a lateral curve like scoliosis, and that tends to happen more often in the ones that turn semi-translucent.

[Colu]

On 2/27/2023 at 6:26 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

The flashing Ive seen has been rare.  I'd say the chronic symptoms I'm seeing are color loss (some turn semi-transparent), fin fraying, not eating, wasting.  Ive also culled quite a few when they develop hunch back, not a lateral curve like scoliosis, and that tends to happen more often in the ones that turn semi-translucent.

Genetic deformities are common in  guppies due to inbreeding that can cause hunch back not eating or spitting food out and wasting such as developing a sunken belly that's more than likely wasting disease the fin fraying can be caused by other fish nipping the fins of your guppies 

[PerceptivePesce]

The fry is still alive.  I put him in 1g water in an opaque blue 2g bucket.  It's hard to tell, viewing from the top, if he's healing.  It's also hard to tell if he is eating.

Anyways, my parameters are still the same as my OP except my pH has dramatically stabilized and I increased the GH by 2 & KH by 1.  Before I started this thread the pH was swinging ~0.8, lower (7.4-7.5) when lights were off and higher (8.2) when they were on.  After I created this thread and treated with maracyn and ichx, the pH stopped going as high.  That happened before I started increasing GH & KH.  Now, for over a week, it's been reading 7.3-7.5, even after increasing the GH & KH.  I did clean some dead plant matter off plants too, but wouldn't dead plant matter make the water more acidic?

Can anyone help explain why this has happened?  I was thinking this may be the "seasoning" process after the nitrogen cycle process?  Is the "seasoning" process a thing?

[nabokovfan87]

Did anything change in terms of the tap water or in terms of old tank syndrome?

On 2/28/2023 at 6:09 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

Anyways, my parameters are still the same as my OP except my pH has dramatically stabilized and I increased the GH by 2 & KH by 1.  Before I started this thread the pH was swinging ~0.8, lower (7.4-7.5) when lights were off and higher (8.2) when they were on.  After I created this thread and treated with maracyn and ichx, the pH stopped going as high.  That happened before I started increasing GH & KH.  Now, for over a week, it's been reading 7.3-7.5, even after increasing the GH & KH.  I did clean some dead plant matter off plants too, but wouldn't dead plant matter make the water more acidic?

If KH is at a certain point that should give PH stability. If bioload changes, is less of a bioload, then KH will have an easier time being stable. For me that point is 60ppm

Maybe the med treatment and the water changes resulted in a balance of parameters. In the sense of increasing water change volume, increasing the rate of water changes, that led to re-balancing everything in the tank and giving you better stability.

The dead plants would add to the bioload, making PH drop and KH would get used up. Phosphates go up as well.

On 2/28/2023 at 6:09 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

Can anyone help explain why this has happened?  I was thinking this may be the "seasoning" process after the nitrogen cycle process?  Is the "seasoning" process a thing?

Seasoning in terms of water is usually akin to aging and giving the water time to off-gas anything it needs to, leading to stable water that isn't full of treatment chemicals.

In terms of an aquarium "seasoning" is used akin to cooking where you marinade meats and add flavor. That type of use is where you get the diatom algae and other things going on in the tank which add to the ecosystem and give you the building blocks for the life in the tank to thrive. Balance is another way to view it.

[PerceptivePesce]

I use remineralized rodi so the water im adding should be good, and I've done weekly 30% WC with gravel vacuum since day one.  Except, after I recently dosed the tank with maracyn & ichx, I went 10 days before WC.  Now my WC day is Thursday instead of Monday. 

As I understand it, "old tank syndrome" happens due to a lack of weekly maintenance.  I think I've been keeping my tank clean, although I didn't clean off the dead plant matter that stayed attached to a few plants until recently.  I didn't think it was that much though. 

I'm happy that my pH seems to be stabilizing at around 7.4.  That high pH, 8.2, didn't add up.  Also, my gh & kh in the tank is 2 degrees higher than my remineralized rodi.  It's been like that since day 1 and it still does that.

I havent done a phosphate test in a while, since I started this thread.  I'll go do that now!  Let's see!

[PerceptivePesce]

My phosphate look to be somewhere around 0.5 mg/L

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/28/2023 at 12:32 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

As I understand it, "old tank syndrome" happens due to a lack of weekly maintenance. 

One method is not changing water often enough, the other is not changing enough water. Both could cause OTS. In a heavily planted tank, if the tank is pulling all the minerals and you're not replenishing those fast enough it could lead to deficiencies in the plants and stress on the fish.

I'm not sure which applies here but Cory's OTS video is really helpful, just make sure you watch to the end because he discusses both causes and has his own experiences he can bring into that conversation. 

 

On 2/28/2023 at 12:54 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

My phosphate look to be somewhere around 0.5 mg/L

Definitely not high enough to cause issues.

 

On 2/28/2023 at 12:32 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

I'm happy that my pH seems to be stabilizing at around 7.4.  That high pH, 8.2, didn't add up.  Also, my gh & kh in the tank is 2 degrees higher than my remineralized rodi.  It's been like that since day 1 and it still does that.

Ah. Alright. That's interesting. My KH is around 60 ppm. PH is just over 7. Not sure if that gives you a bearing. If my KH goes to 80, PH is right around that 7.3-7.5 range.

On 2/9/2023 at 7:43 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

7GH

5KH

Ammonia 0

Nitrite 0

Nitrate 10

pH 7.5-7.9

Phosphates 0.25

I think in degrees of KH I'm at 4-6 with the ppm mentioned above.

[knee]

On 2/28/2023 at 1:16 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Ah. Alright. That's interesting. My KH is around 60 ppm. PH is just over 7. Not sure if that gives you a bearing. If my KH goes to 80, PH is right around that 7.3-7.5 range.

I think in degrees of KH I'm at 4-6 with the ppm mentioned above.

this would put you at 3-4.5 dKH

The equation to determine dKH is = ppm / 17.86

This also applies to GH

Edited February 28, 2023 by knee

[PerceptivePesce]

@Colu I found the fry dead just now.  He was still alive when I left the house 3 hours ago.  I inspected him and I didn't see anything unusual, no mouth spot.

Edited March 2, 2023 by PerceptivePesce