White Algae?

[Colu]

On 2/11/2023 at 2:34 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

I remineralize RO/DI water with CaSO4.2H20, MgSO4.7H20, & K2CO3.  

I also have CaCO3 powder, but through my observations I think it may take longer than a week to fully dissolve and I do weekly ~30% WC.  I stopped using it quite a few months ago.

I can raise KH with those things.  What level do you think I should raise KH to?

I would aim for a KH of 8

[PerceptivePesce]

Well, my tank is just a little cloudy, much less than yesterday.  Here's a pic of the plants I cleaned last night, and condensed to one rock.

Im debating on whether I should do a thorough gavel vac and WC, or let the meds I put in there soak?  It has been awhile since I moved each planted rock and vacuumed under them.  And the plants could use some algae scrubbing love again.

What you think @JoeQ?

[JoeQ]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:37 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

Well, my tank is just a little cloudy, much less than yesterday.  Here's a pic of the plants I cleaned last night, and condensed to one rock.

Im debating on whether I should do a thorough gavel vac and WC, or let the meds I put in there soak?  It has been awhile since I moved each planted rock and vacuumed under them.  And the plants could use some algae scrubbing love again.

What you think @JoeQ?

That part looks good, only thing I see there is a few struggling plants with otherwise healthy plants in the background. But I still don't see any floating spores or sickly inhabitants so im not convinced there is disease. As for the plants (and if it were me) id keep a consistent fertilizer/water change routine and observe for any new growth or decline in the plants health.

Edited February 11, 2023 by JoeQ
Changed constant to consistent. Engrish is fun!

[PerceptivePesce]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:56 AM, JoeQ said:

That part looks good, only thing I see there is a few struggling plants with otherwise healthy plants in the background. But I still don't see any floating spores or sickly inhabitants so im not convinced there is disease. As for the plants (and if it were me) id keep a constant fertilizer/water change routine and observe for any new growth or decline in the plants health.

 

It's so hard to get pics, but I got one!

This is my worst tattered tail guppy.  There's a second like her but not as bad.  About half look like they have no signs of fin rot and the other half have minimal fin fraying.

[JoeQ]

On 2/11/2023 at 12:23 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

 

It's so hard to get pics, but I got one!

This is my worst tattered tail guppy.  There's a second like her but not as bad.  About half look like they have no signs of fin rot and the other half have minimal fin fraying.

That looks to me like fin nipping, also I think shes a he! 🤣

[JoeQ]

On 2/11/2023 at 12:38 PM, JoeQ said:

That looks to me like fin nipping, also I think shes a he! 🤣

Never mind, my bad, males are even more fancy........ Epic fail! Still fin nipping IMO, maybe the boys are too rough?

[PerceptivePesce]

Yeah, def a female, big old gravid spot! 

I was thinking fin nipping, too... until i didn't.  I see the boys corraling others but I've never seen anything that looks overly aggressive, and I watch them a lot!

I just wish they'd give me a super definitive sign.  It's always, "well, that could be any number of things."  This would be a lot easier if they could learn to talk!

[JoeQ]

On 2/11/2023 at 12:55 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

Yeah, def a female, big old gravid spot! 

I was thinking fin nipping, too... until i didn't.  I see the boys corraling others but I've never seen anything that looks overly aggressive, and I watch them a lot!

I just wish they'd give me a super definitive sign.  It's always, "well, that could be any number of things."  This would be a lot easier if they could learn to talk!

I probably should stay in my lane which is more along the lines of algae control. But you might want to look into your M/F ratio which would spread mating aggression among numberios ladies instead of 1 or 2 taking the brunt of the harassment.

[evonner]

I agree. The M/F ratio is critical and you might want to consider quarantining her for a little bit to keep her safe/heal until you can assess the fin nipping issue.

[PerceptivePesce]

I got a clue, nerms!

I observed a tattered female hiding in the corner.  When she came out to eat the whiteish tips of her pectoral fins caught my eye.  I think the tips of all her fins look like they are turning white, and there seems to be 3 lighter smudges running vertical on the right side of her body-tail (not fin).  The lights are out.  I'll check in the am.

[PerceptivePesce]

I need to tell y'all.  Both of my big males died over the past two weeks.  There's one young male.  The other males are too small to cause trouble.  There's probably like  15-18 large females.

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/11/2023 at 7:09 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

I got a clue, nerms!

I observed a tattered female hiding in the corner.  When she came out to eat the whiteish tips of her pectoral fins caught my eye.  I think the tips of all her fins look like they are turning white, and there seems to be 3 lighter smudges running vertical on the right side of her body-tail (not fin).  The lights are out.  I'll check in the am.

Can we do a quick sanity check.....

What meds (if any) are in the tank?
Can you pull one of those white things into a small container out of the tank and photo it? 
What is your parameters for the tank, temperature, and has anything else changed recently?
When was the last filter cleaning, is all the equipment functioning?

M/F Ratio seems ok (based on what you last said) and you have fish with fin nipping issues which could lead to secondary issues.

 

[PerceptivePesce]

Yes, please, lets do this! @nabokovfan87

1) I put 9 packets of Maracyn, and 9 tsp of Ich-X in the tank.

2) The white spots that were on the glass, in the picture in the OP, are all gone.  The spots that were on the plants are all gone too.  I did not scrape it off.  I assume the meds did that.

3) My parameters today were exactly the same as listed in OP, even the pH went back to 7.5 range.  However, my phosphates were higher.  About 1 mg/L (fluval test).  I changed my lights 2 weeks ago, 42w, 70%, 4hrs on-4hrs off-4hrs on.  I was doing 10 straight hrs at 75%, 42w.  I changed to iron gluconate a few weeks ago, i think my plants liked it.

4) I cleaned my canister filter and its tubes 2 mondays ago, Jan 28.  (I didn't clean the intake pre-filter sponge, nor the sponge filter)

I have to be somewhere sunday am so I wont be able to do anything in my tank until tomorrow pm.

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/9/2023 at 7:43 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

7GH

5KH

Ammonia 0

Nitrite 0

Nitrate 10

pH 7.5-7.9

Phosphates 0.25

Nothing here seems too crazy.  Plants are stressed, explains the phosphate changes.  Algae alone could raise it that much.  Mine goes up to 3 ppm in a week on a bad day, small tank, bigger jumps.  Temp in your case seems ok as well (listed at 74 in an earlier post)

As long at the PH doesn't get too high, you should be able to hold off PH as a stress factor.

Flow could be a factor, but that's something you'd have to determine on the visual side on your end if you see fish struggling at all against the output of the filter.

Very interesting that time+flow or meds made that stuff go away.  I do wonder what it was. 🤔

In the case of fin issues, even tears and recovery without rotting issues, my suggestion would be to use aquarium salt.  1/3 or 1/2 cup per 10G is the usual ranges I fall within.  For a fin rot situation I would lean towards 1/2 cup and for a recovery mode use I would stick to 1/3 cup.

It's difficult to pin point, but there seems to be a few things at play here, not just one.  Hopefully with more observation things clarify themselves.

Have you noticed any of the females with tail damage struggling to get food?  When I had fin rot in my tank it was a female who was picked on and I had to target feed her as well as meds to get things healed up.  Just something to note.

[PerceptivePesce]

On 2/12/2023 at 12:57 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Nothing here seems too crazy.  Plants are stressed, explains the phosphate changes.  Algae alone could raise it that much.  Mine goes up to 3 ppm in a week on a bad day, small tank, bigger jumps.  Temp in your case seems ok as well (listed at 74 in an earlier post)

As long at the PH doesn't get too high, you should be able to hold off PH as a stress factor.

Flow could be a factor, but that's something you'd have to determine on the visual side on your end if you see fish struggling at all against the output of the filter.

Very interesting that time+flow or meds made that stuff go away.  I do wonder what it was. 🤔

In the case of fin issues, even tears and recovery without rotting issues, my suggestion would be to use aquarium salt.  1/3 or 1/2 cup per 10G is the usual ranges I fall within.  For a fin rot situation I would lean towards 1/2 cup and for a recovery mode use I would stick to 1/3 cup.

It's difficult to pin point, but there seems to be a few things at play here, not just one.  Hopefully with more observation things clarify themselves.

Have you noticed any of the females with tail damage struggling to get food?  When I had fin rot in my tank it was a female who was picked on and I had to target feed her as well as meds to get things healed up.  Just something to note.

 

I have no idea how to quantify flow, lets see... Canister is 375gph.  Outflow is wide open.  I use an out flow bar.  I drilled 4 holes 90* of the outflow holes to direct some of the flow downward on that side of glass and to also reduce some of the current coming out of the surface holes; I felt like it was a bit too violent.  Both side and front walls have current flowing on them, the back wall is calmer.  Food gets pushed down into the tank pretty quick and circulates a bit.  On the other side of the 4' long tank is a large sponge filter.  There is a corral of water lettuce in the back 3rd of depth, the surface current is reduced there- I see the guppies resting there sometimes.  Sometimes I see them playing in the current, I think they like it.

I have lots of plants.  The older leaves grow more algae faster than newer leaves.  Salt is scary.  But I should really learn how to hospital/quarantine, it's just kind of intimidating.

I'll watch the tattered girls tonight real close.  I want to say they all eat, but I want to double check.

I dosed the tank last Thursday.  WC day is tomorrow, monday.  I dunno if I should let the meds soak till thursday or do a WC?

Also, I was wondering, if the meds killed off bad or good bacteria/fungus/mold, would that make the phosphates increase?

Edited February 12, 2023 by PerceptivePesce

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/12/2023 at 1:54 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

I dunno if I should let the meds soak till thursday or do a WC?

Follow the directions on the box. Whatever they are.

On 2/12/2023 at 1:54 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

Also, I was wondering, if the meds killed off bad or good bacteria/fungus/mold, would that make the phosphates increase?

Yes. Any dying organics in the water, plant or algae would. Food as well.

[evonner]

I went back and read every post. I have some questions. Your pH range, it fluctuates between 7.5-7.9? You use RO, does the RO come from your tap? Like an RO system. Exactly how many males and females do you have? How small/young doesn't matter. The behavior of the guppies and deaths say you have a major problem. Does the medication instructions say to remove it with carbon after so many days? I'm running out the door at the moment. I will check back for a reply when I get home.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PerceptivePesce]

Yes, @evonner my pH was moving in that range for past 6 weeks.  Now it's starting to move lower.  For the past 3 days I've been getting 7.3-7.6

I filter the tap through a bulkreef RO/DI.

Oh, man, I don't want to count, there's too many guppies! (Primus!)   Gosh, there's like 30 guppies, over half are female, like 60%ish.

Neither of the instructions for maracyn or ich-x say anything about removal after treatment.

Today, I cleaned out some debris.  No water change.  I have QT stuff, but haven't set it up yet.  The guppies seem okay.  There are a couple not eating, they swim like they are going to eat but then they turn their nose.  The white tipped girl ate, she does seem to be aloof, but when I feed she goes for it.  

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by PerceptivePesce

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/13/2023 at 6:18 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

Neither of the instructions for maracyn or ich-x say anything about removal after treatment.

WC after treatment.  I tend to do 2-3 50% WCs and run carbon for 7-14 days.

[PerceptivePesce]

I saw a guppy flashing earlier today.  She skipped along the gravel, 3 flashes.  Is that a definite sign of parasite?

I have a UV light in my canister.  I never use it.  Would that be helpful?

 

Anyone got recommendations for bulk carbon?

[JoeQ]

Its a sign that something is bothering her. Water quality is a pretty safe first bet, unless there are obvious visible signs. 

[evonner]

Medication Treatment: The medication combination you're using should knock out bacterial and fungal issues. Typically, when medicating as you have, you perform a water change at the end of the treatment and run carbon in your filter to remove excess medication left behind as directed in the post above. The use of antibiotics is always a last resort unless you're absolutely sure that they are needed.

The treatment should also prevent the nipped fins from developing into fin and body rot but do continue to monitor this. I don't recommend that you start the aquarium salt treatments yet. If you do end up having to do the salt treatment then do it in the QT items you picked up. Rule of thumb is to never do too much at one time. So you need to see how or if the antibiotic treatment improved things or not before trying some other things. Stress kills fish and these treatments are stressful to them. Guppies staying on the bottom, at the top, not eating and lethargic are not signs of improvement, so watch for these behaviors.

Water parameters: Do you have a reason of why you use RO/DI water? You stated that you remineralize it.  I wonder if the balance of minerals are properly balanced. You have 7GH, it should be at least 15dGH or higher.  You have 5KH, you should be over 8dKH with a pH of 7.5 to 8.0. I really think the problem is your water parameters and this is what I think the biggest concern is. 

M/F ratio: You should have 1 male to 2 females at minimum. Ideally is 1 male to 3 females. This will discourage fin nipping.

Quarantine: Please learn everything you can about quarantining because it makes a huge difference. New livestock needs to be quarantined for 14 days, and sick fish need to be quarantined until better. This prevent sickness in your community tank. 

So these are the things that I believe are the contributing issues to what your experiencing. Here is a link that I think might be helpful https://www.buildyouraquarium.com/breeding-guppies/#:~:text=With the kH%2C or carbonate,and 8 or more kH.

 

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/14/2023 at 12:24 PM, PerceptivePesce said:

I saw a guppy flashing earlier today.  She skipped along the gravel, 3 flashes.  Is that a definite sign of parasite?

I have a UV light in my canister.  I never use it.  Would that be helpful?

Flashing is a sign of something bothering the fish, multiple instances could be something on the skin. You'd want to keep an eye for a wound, flashing can lead to damage and secondary infections.

Wouldn't hurt to turn on UV for a few hours a day. Just keep in mind not to use it when running meds.

Carbon, not sure which to recommend. I heard marineland is "good" but to me it looks like generic stuff similar to others. Seachem has little tumbled beads that should work slightly more effectively. I tend to prefer something that is a pellet or larger size.

[evonner]

It wouldn't hurt to run the UV light in your canister for a few days just don't run it all the time or for long periods like days and days.

[PerceptivePesce]

On 2/14/2023 at 3:06 PM, evonner said:

Medication Treatment: The medication combination you're using should knock out bacterial and fungal issues. Typically, when medicating as you have, you perform a water change at the end of the treatment and run carbon in your filter to remove excess medication left behind as directed in the post above. The use of antibiotics is always a last resort unless you're absolutely sure that they are needed.

The treatment should also prevent the nipped fins from developing into fin and body rot but do continue to monitor this. I don't recommend that you start the aquarium salt treatments yet. If you do end up having to do the salt treatment then do it in the QT items you picked up. Rule of thumb is to never do too much at one time. So you need to see how or if the antibiotic treatment improved things or not before trying some other things. Stress kills fish and these treatments are stressful to them. Guppies staying on the bottom, at the top, not eating and lethargic are not signs of improvement, so watch for these behaviors.

Water parameters: Do you have a reason of why you use RO/DI water? You stated that you remineralize it.  I wonder if the balance of minerals are properly balanced. You have 7GH, it should be at least 15dGH or higher.  You have 5KH, you should be over 8dKH with a pH of 7.5 to 8.0. I really think the problem is your water parameters and this is what I think the biggest concern is. 

M/F ratio: You should have 1 male to 2 females at minimum. Ideally is 1 male to 3 females. This will discourage fin nipping.

Quarantine: Please learn everything you can about quarantining because it makes a huge difference. New livestock needs to be quarantined for 14 days, and sick fish need to be quarantined until better. This prevent sickness in your community tank. 

So these are the things that I believe are the contributing issues to what your experiencing. Here is a link that I think might be helpful https://www.buildyouraquarium.com/breeding-guppies/#:~:text=With the kH%2C or carbonate,and 8 or more kH.

 

 

I was reading the suggested gh & kh in that article.

1) There are multiple other sources that give different parameters.  It's so hard to know what to follow!

2) Actually, I'm not adding 7GH & 5KH in minerals.  I've been adding 5GH & 3KH, and I've been wondering what is increasing my GH & KH since I have inert substrate and rocks.  I assumed my substrate and rocks werent totally inert, but it just occurred to me that perhaps my water is cannibalizing the fish?!?! oh my heavens!!