Need new equipment, want the best.

[BettaFishCO]

Was testing my PH with my old BlueLabs ph pen but it looks like its done for. I'm looking for the best of the best ph, ppm, temp, etc. meters in the world. I don't want cheap stuff that ill instantly replace (like my recently bought 25$ ppm meter). Looking for the best in the field. I know with hydroponics bluelabs is pretty much the go to but maybe aquarist have a better one.

Thanks for the help.

[nabokovfan87]

@modified lung

^^ Has a lot of experience with testing tools. There was a particular brand mentioned previously that I would check out.

[BettaFishCO]

Thanks, just messaged him. 

[Streetwise]

 

[BettaFishCO]

Thanks StreetWise,

Looks like im digging after a rabbit today.

[Streetwise]

[BettaFishCO]

StreetWise, my man,

I think my shirts wet from airing my mouth out. This is exactly the type of system I'm looking for. Not a bad price either. Pretty much 3 of them replace a full-time employee. Any quirks? Or is it all "relatively" simple? Also, if i run multiple 770gallon systems can i branch one unit to test multiple reservoirs or is one system for each controlled reservoir?

Thanks for the intel, helps a lot

[Streetwise]

It is very expandable. The programming is a bit old-school, but it supports so many things. Marine aquarists drive the the whole Apex ecosystem.

[BettaFishCO]

Streetwise,

I believe you mentioned an adaptor for freshwater for apex. what was that called again?

I'm a fan of old school. The new age stuff seems to need wifi connection all the time or it'll glitch out. IDK about these systems but prefer more robust over features I don't need or that don't save time.

[Streetwise]

@BettaFishCO, here is what I wrote:

You cannot calibrate ORP for freshwater unless you add the PM2 module.

https://shop.neptunesystems.com/products/salinity-module-pm2

Things may have changed, since it has been a couple of years.

You can control and monitor remotely via the cloud connection.

I was skimming through the thread, and a lot of the posts about competing products have dead links. It is hard to compete with an established system.

I really don’t do enough with mine, but if I ever get CO2, I will partly regulate it with pH.

Edit: my pH probe is complaining and probably needs replacement. I don’t think the pH is actually as low as those graphs report.

[anewbie]

I recently did a bit of digging into these and this is what i found:

ghl: ph/temp $400 bundle includes controllable power strip; unlimited data retained (havent' used it)

hydros: ph/tmp/tds $350 bundle (tds is extra but around $50); only 1 week data retained; tds meter only useful with ro (you can't monitor the tank)

apex: ph/tmp (jr unit) around $400; need pm2 for more stuff (like tds) which makes it very expensive; not sure how general the tds unit is or if it is like hydros - the problem is that it can't be inserted into the tank but you could probably rig something with a small close circuit pump if you want to monitor tank water - it is really designed to monitor the ro unit.

I'm currently testing hydros - it is ok but i don't like the cloud data stuff since you can't get raw data - just the graphs and it only retains one week (they say this will eventually be improved but not  yet) but it is cheaper than the alternative. 

I'll probably test ghl in the spring - see if the rep can get me a bundle without the power strip since i don't need to control power with the unit - they have larger units but more expensive.

 

On 12/24/2022 at 1:42 PM, Streetwise said:

@BettaFishCO, here is what I wrote:

You cannot calibrate ORP for freshwater unless you add the PM2 module.

https://shop.neptunesystems.com/products/salinity-module-pm2

Things may have changed, since it has been a couple of years.

You can control and monitor remotely via the cloud connection.

I was skimming through the thread, and a lot of the posts about competing products have dead links. It is hard to compete with an established system.

I really don’t do enough with mine, but if I ever get CO2, I will partly regulate it with pH.

Edit: my pH probe is complaining and probably needs replacement. I don’t think the pH is actually as low as those graphs report.

What is ORP ?

[tolstoy21]

Take a look at Milwaukee Instruments.

https://milwaukeeinstruments.com/milwaukee-mW806-pro-4-in-1-ph-ec-tds-temp-combo-meter-with-atc/

 

[BettaFishCO]

@tolstoy21That looks great as well. Thanks for the link.

My only issue is it has 1 review and I need it to stay true (zeroed, calibrated). I'll definitely look into it and hopefully it pans out. Thanks again 21

[tolstoy21]

I have a less expensive (but not cheap) Ph pen from them and like it. It holds calibration well, but does require calibration from time to time. My only complaint about the pen is that the screws to calibrate it are just too damn small. One of these day's I'm going to upgrade to something that also does TDS and EC and is easier to calibrate.

Edited December 26, 2022 by tolstoy21

[BettaFishCO]

@anewbie I'm not 100% but I believe (I should really look it up again) that it's something to do with the water basically squeezing out oxygen or the sucking up of oxygen. Oxygen reducing something...Oxygen reduction potential "had to look it up lol". After reading (headache) I believe I'm on the right track but maybe @Streetwise can clear things up. Also, hello streetwise. I don't think I'm too vulnerable to low oxygen environments to need to monitor it. Would I need the PM2 module to run the rest of the equipment on freshwater?

Also, ever heard of over oxygenation of freshwater? I probably would run into that before too little. If so, I'll look into measuring orp. 

[BettaFishCO]

@tolstoy21 What's considered not cheap?

If you already calibrate time to time (I really don't like calibrating anything) then the bluelabs are great. Bought mine about 7-10 years ago and just now becoming unusable. I think I paid 80 something. If i was you and wanted to buy it, I would buy it from them directly.

I run another business and its knowledge through the industry that big box stores have contracts to get the product cheaper from manufacturing, example: dewalt drills for home depo. These all carry a unique bar code that's different from all other suppliers. When 2 of the same tools were bought (one from homedepo, one from dewalt) they found that a few things including the choke ring (i believe) was plastic from homedepo and metal from direct. The tool was more expensive from dewalt as well which justifies the change. I don't believe all manufactures do this, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is across industries with high end brands. 

[tolstoy21]

Another option with more reviews from Hanna Instruments.

https://www.hannainst.com/hi9813-6-portable-ph-ec-tds-temperature-meter-with-cal-check.html

[tolstoy21]

On 12/25/2022 at 9:29 PM, BettaFishCO said:

 

If you already calibrate time to time (I really don't like calibrating anything) then the bluelabs are great. Bought mine about 7-10 years ago and just now becoming unusable. I think I paid 80 something. If i was you and wanted to buy it, I would buy it from them directly.

You know, when I look back at the item, I guess it wasn't expensive. Looks like I paid $30-something for it. I find it superior to most of the inexpensive pens they have on Amazon which I have tried.

I don't love having to calibrate it, but it's the best option I have found for checking low-range Ph.

I also like to try to buy straight from manufacturer when I can.  

Edited December 26, 2022 by tolstoy21

[Streetwise]

@BettaFishCO, I have never felt the need to think about ORP, but it came up when I was researching the Apex for freshwater, so I had to include it as a FAQ item.

The more expensive Apex model can do marine ORP, and has 10V controls for select devices like certain pumps. You can always add modules for those and other features.

I noted that in the Apex thread, because it made more sense to spend less for the EL model. I was fine with just pH and temperature. I later added a leak detection kit.

I used to run marine, and spent a lot of time researching automation. I thought that I was going to run CO2 when I returned to the freshwater hobby, and I thought I might automate some pumps, and even lights. I manage technology for a living, so I couldn’t resist trying the Apex.

However, I ended up going all-in on organic soil tanks, which are very boring, in a way that I really enjoy.

My Apex is more like an aquatic weather station, but it is fun watching the parameters change with my lights, and my home temperature.

I do like getting status and alarms on my phone. If I ran a full room, I would do more, and program triggers for various conditions, like a power outage. You can have the unit plugged into a UPS, with an external non-UPS source to detect an outage. I would use pH as a bookend control for CO2.

The market has changed a lot since I researched all this. You can see that Cory and others are doing a lot with home automation, compared to just a few years ago.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Streetwise

[BettaFishCO]

@Streetwise Good stuff. Did I mention my huge co2 die off 😅. Accidently messed with the co2 knobs when the system was off. I thought i just cracked it again (2-5 bubs per sec) but when I remembered halfway into the next day almost all the fish were dead and my co2 was raging. 400$ Lesson learned. Yea Apex might be my go too. I want it to control my water changes and just keep an eye on my levels as I'm already busy with just life.

@tolstoy21Hanna is my next go to I believe. Some people have said it's the bomb, so I probably am going to try it out. I just bought a 25$ one on amazon (pretty sure it's a 12$ meter) and this things about as stable as my bank account. 

[anewbie]

On 12/25/2022 at 8:29 PM, tolstoy21 said:

Another option with more reviews from Hanna Instruments.

https://www.hannainst.com/hi9813-6-portable-ph-ec-tds-temperature-meter-with-cal-check.html

Milwaukee has a similar device; but these are not monitors but testers if that matters. Also i worry about the ph probe on these as my understanding they will wear out on all devices and if they dry out they are more prone to not last as long.

[AndEEss]

On 12/26/2022 at 8:08 AM, anewbie said:

Milwaukee has a similar device; but these are not monitors but testers if that matters. Also i worry about the ph probe on these as my understanding they will wear out on all devices and if they dry out they are more prone to not last as long.

Lots of people in the planted tank world use the Milwaukee MC122 pH controller, in conjunction with a smart plug and CO2 regulator. 

Smart Plug (timing of on/off) -> MC122 (pH drop) -> Regulator (rate)

Doesn’t get you the reporting capability of the Apex but allows you to dial in the timing and intensity of your CO2 via pH drop. You never remove it from the tank other than for calibration, so no need to worry about it drying out.

[tolstoy21]

On 12/26/2022 at 10:08 AM, anewbie said:

Milwaukee has a similar device; but these are not monitors but testers if that matters. Also i worry about the ph probe on these as my understanding they will wear out on all devices and if they dry out they are more prone to not last as long.

We were discussing the Milwaukee devices earlier. The probes can wear out. I am not sure what their longevity is. But the better units have replaceable probes. Also, you are meant to store the probes in their caps, filled with storage solution, or yes they do dry out and will prematurely fail and require replacement.

On 12/26/2022 at 11:31 AM, AndEEss said:

Lots of people in the planted tank world use the Milwaukee MC122 pH controller, in conjunction with a smart plug and CO2 regulator. 

Yeah, I've seen that solution as well.

I think in the end it depends on if you want to monitor a system or just perform periodic tests. 

Monitoring is nice since I believe you can have the CO2 solenoid flip on or off in response to the monitored Ph level, right?  

Edited December 26, 2022 by tolstoy21

[AndEEss]

On 12/26/2022 at 9:32 AM, tolstoy21 said:

 

Yeah, I've seen that solution as well.

I think in the end it depends on if you want to monitor a system or just perform periodic tests. 

Monitoring is nice since I believe you can have the CO2 solenoid flip on or off in response to the monitored Ph level, right?  

Correct. If your MC122 is set to 6.4 and the tank’s pH goes from 6.4 to 6.3, it turns off the plug powering the CO2 regulator.

[tolstoy21]

@BettaFishCO Oh forgot to mention the company 'Hatch'.  I believe there are amongst the most trusted water testers, used in labs and by water quality professionals in the field.  But they do come with a hefty price, so kind of out of the range of hobbyists.

My first choice has been Milwaukee simple because when you go to their main page you can see that they have solutions aimed at the aquarium hobby (as well as things like brewing and aquaponics), but if/when I consider upgrading my pen, I might also take a serious look at the comparable hanna products as well. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by tolstoy21