Clear aquaponics HOB filter passion project

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:44 PM, Caidenh24 said:

Ok thanks. So by see it do you mean like the shape of the channels that lock them together?

I'll try to sketch out some stuff and scan it tomorrow 🙂 I'll find some videos that might help. Essentially, for a lot of what you're doing it would be better with higher tolerances. There's a few ways to achieve that, but the best way is injection molding. Based on the sketches you have, not difficult at all and you're talking about three place dimensions being possible. 

Material choice is another critical factor. Something like the aquaclears are more rigid, less flexibility compared to something like the aqueon or marineland hang on back filters. while something like the tidal finds a good balance between both in their material choices.  Yes, the seachem tidal has issues with tolerances, but generally speaking the material is a good balance between rigid and flexible.

All I was saying, was that depending on how you want the product design to be, it would lean towards one or the other manufacturing processes. The sketches definitely help! Parts are usually designed flat/straight and then the design engineer would go back in and design it for molding.

On 11/16/2022 at 8:44 PM, Caidenh24 said:

What do you mean by a kit with a input and output?

Essentially, input takes water from the tank and output would spill it back in. The extensions to adjust the length can come in a variety of sizes and that would give you the expandability you're looking for. The "starter kit" would essentially be where people start with the product, and then the extensions would be sold separately for the sake of expanding filtration options and adding room for other items in the filter box.

That method might make sense for this product, might not be what you're wanting, but I just wanted to mention it in case that helps trigger ideas when you're sketching things.

On 11/16/2022 at 8:44 PM, Caidenh24 said:

And what do you mean about think about how it integrates and functions from section to section with my tank?

Just meaning pump location, placement, of you want a pump compared to air, etc. Flowrates, all of those things would be "how", but the question is what would work best for your product design.

[drewzero1]

For the kit with input and output, note my first napkin sketch where the end sections are very short and the middle sections are longer. The short ends with the uplift tubes and the outlet chute would be that basic kit, and the longer middle sections could be added on up to the length of the tank.

So here's a picture of my lunch container to illustrate the seal. There's a C-shaped channel along the edge of the lid that holds a squishy strip of silicone (the green thing), this would be the 'gasket & outer lip' in my ddrawings. I've pulled the gasket partially out of its slot to show the way they fit together.

When the lid is placed on top, latches (the flaps on the sides) press the gasket tight around the rim of the container. (Or at least they would if the molded hinges weren't so stiff. Certainly a more secure latch/hinge design would be needed to keep water off of the floor.)

 

I modeled an adapter to connect my sponge filter to my HOB breeder box as discussed upthread. I'll have towait to try printing it until tomorrow as my 3d printer is squirting out d&d minis all night. 😆

[Caidenh24]

On 11/16/2022 at 11:03 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I'll try to sketch out some stuff and scan it tomorrow 🙂 I'll find some videos that might help. Essentially, for a lot of what you're doing it would be better with higher tolerances. There's a few ways to achieve that, but the best way is injection molding. Based on the sketches you have, not difficult at all and you're talking about three place dimensions being possible. 

That makes more since. What do you mean by three place dimensions? And higher tolerances are you talking about the material I make it with?

 

On 11/16/2022 at 11:03 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Material choice is another critical factor. Something like the aquaclears are more rigid, less flexibility compared to something like the aqueon or marineland hang on back filters. while something like the tidal finds a good balance between both in their material choices.  Yes, the seachem tidal has issues with tolerances, but generally speaking the material is a good balance between rigid and flexible.

Yeah I don't want the filter made out of something really flexible or something so stiff it can crack easy. I have a acrylic sheet I got for it but I think it will be maybe to flexible.

 

On 11/16/2022 at 11:03 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Essentially, input takes water from the tank and output would spill it back in. The extensions to adjust the length can come in a variety of sizes and that would give you the expandability you're looking for. The "starter kit" would essentially be where people start with the product, and then the extensions would be sold separately for the sake of expanding filtration options and adding room for other items in the filter box.

That method might make sense for this product, might not be what you're wanting, but I just wanted to mention it in case that helps trigger ideas when you're sketching things.

That makes since I didn't realize you were talking about filter input and output. I was thinking to make it that way also.

 

On 11/16/2022 at 11:03 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Just meaning pump location, placement, of you want a pump compared to air, etc. Flowrates, all of those things would be "how", but the question is what would work best for your product design.

Oh ok I got you now. You are just saying like everything that you go over kind of when making a new product and the things I would need to go over for making this.

I have learned about the science and it sounds like I need a alright sized intake tube maybe 1/2 inch to 1 inch. I am not really sure. It probably just needs to be the size of the intake tube that is used in a Breeder Box.

Thanks for the help I really appreciate it! 🙂

[Caidenh24]

On 11/16/2022 at 11:16 PM, drewzero1 said:

For the kit with input and output, note my first napkin sketch where the end sections are very short and the middle sections are longer. The short ends with the uplift tubes and the outlet chute would be that basic kit, and the longer middle sections could be added on up to the length of the tank.

That is a good idea, I didn't think of that because you can't have one segment that has everything on it.

 

On 11/16/2022 at 11:16 PM, drewzero1 said:

So here's a picture of my lunch container to illustrate the seal. There's a C-shaped channel along the edge of the lid that holds a squishy strip of silicone (the green thing), this would be the 'gasket & outer lip' in my ddrawings. I've pulled the gasket partially out of its slot to show the way they fit together.

Oh I gotchu now I am pretty sure. I wanted to do this also and I tried sketching it but I suck at drawing so it never worked. I was thinking of using some different kind of sealing but I didn't know how to really do it well. This is a lot easier. I wanted to do it like a storage container but I didn't know how to basically flip one inside out with the locking mechanism and everything.

 

On 11/16/2022 at 11:16 PM, drewzero1 said:

When the lid is placed on top, latches (the flaps on the sides) press the gasket tight around the rim of the container. (Or at least they would if the molded hinges weren't so stiff. Certainly a more secure latch/hinge design would be needed to keep water off of the floor.)

Got it. I was thinking of like these heavy duty locks that I would put on but that is to much. I also didn't think I would get into molding and everything, But this sound A LOT cooler I was thinking to like make this thing that I like threw together. But it would be cool to make it like a actual product not something I just threw together with some super glue. 

 

On 11/16/2022 at 11:16 PM, drewzero1 said:

I modeled an adapter to connect my sponge filter to my HOB breeder box as discussed upthread. I'll have towait to try printing it until tomorrow as my 3d printer is squirting out d&d minis all night. 😆

Oh sweet thanks for the help. Just as a question what design software do you use? I might want to design some stuff for this and the only ones I have tried suck. Thanks for all the help. You are doing so much to help and I appreciate it!

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/16/2022 at 11:31 PM, Caidenh24 said:

What do you mean by three place dimensions? And higher tolerances are you talking about the material I make it with?

So let's say you have a measurement....

1/2" or half and inch or .5

In terms of engineering, there is a tolerance or variance that is.....

Example:

.5 = one place dim = +/-.060 = .440-.560

.50 = two place dim = +/- .030 = .470-.530

.500 = three place dim = +/- .010 = .490-.510

Essentially, you're determining how well things fit. If a piece has more rigid material, then depending on application you would won't tighter tolerance (better fit). If things have a bit more malleable material, then tolerance isn't as critical (lower cost).

Hopefully that helps to explain some things. Again, all of this isn't something you need to worry about, but it is entirely part of the design process, eventually.

 

On 11/16/2022 at 11:41 PM, Caidenh24 said:

Just as a question what design software do you use? I might want to design some stuff for this and the only ones I have tried suck.

Check out whatever Autodesk or dessault systems software. Google also has sketch software that is free and easy. If you're a student you can get just about anything professionals use for free with a student email.

[Caidenh24]

On 11/17/2022 at 12:40 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

So let's say you have a measurement....

1/2" or half and inch or .5

In terms of engineering, there is a tolerance or variance that is.....

Example:

.5 = one place dim = +/-.060 = .440-.560

.50 = two place dim = +/- .030 = .470-.530

.500 = three place dim = +/- .010 = .490-.510

Essentially, you're determining how well things fit. If a piece has more rigid material, then depending on application you would won't tighter tolerance (better fit). If things have a bit more malleable material, then tolerance isn't as critical (lower cost).

Hopefully that helps to explain some things. Again, all of this isn't something you need to worry about, but it is entirely part of the design process, eventually.

 

Check out whatever Autodesk or dessault systems software. Google also has sketch software that is free and easy. If you're a student you can get just about anything professionals use for free with a student email.

Oh ok sweet thanks! This whole engineering  thing can get confusing.

[drewzero1]

I use OpenSCAD, but I don't recommend it unless you really like programming and math. It's a parametric CAD program, meaning it uses parameters (easily-changed variables) for the dimensions. Basically you write a program to add and subtract shapes to get the design you want. Great for something like an adapter where someone else might want to use it on different sized sponge filter or uplift tubes, but really cumbersome when you start getting into more complicated models.

(The text entered on the left is rendered into the shape on the right.)

It doesn't look like the forum will let me upload the model files. When I get a chance to test it out I'll post it somewhere else and link here.

[Caidenh24]

On 11/17/2022 at 9:26 AM, drewzero1 said:

I use OpenSCAD, but I don't recommend it unless you really like programming and math. It's a parametric CAD program, meaning it uses parameters (easily-changed variables) for the dimensions. Basically you write a program to add and subtract shapes to get the design you want. Great for something like an adapter where someone else might want to use it on different sized sponge filter or uplift tubes, but really cumbersome when you start getting into more complicated models.

(The text entered on the left is rendered into the shape on the right.)

It doesn't look like the forum will let me upload the model files. When I get a chance to test it out I'll post it somewhere else and link here.

Oh dang yeah it does look and sound confusing. Coding like that and math sounds kind of fun but I can never figure it out. I might try the softwares @nabokovfan87told me about. I tried sketch up but I end up hollowing the shape I make and I don’t know how to fill it back in. I also don’t know how to tilt the shape. So maybe I should try something else or watch some videos. The design you made does look nice though! Thanks!

[Levi_Aquatics]

I just found this thread and I will definitely be keeping an eye on what you are doing! Looks very interesting!

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/17/2022 at 9:39 AM, Caidenh24 said:

Oh dang yeah it does look and sound confusing. Coding like that and math sounds kind of fun but I can never figure it out. I might try the softwares @nabokovfan87told me about. I tried sketch up but I end up hollowing the shape I make and I don’t know how to fill it back in. I also don’t know how to tilt the shape. So maybe I should try something else or watch some videos. The design you made does look nice though! Thanks!

The good thing about AutoCAD and sketch programs and all of those things is it's very easy to learn. The hard part is learning the standards for materials and all the engineering side of things. Creating the model is quick and fun to do.

L for line, c for circle, very easy stuff.

[Caidenh24]

On 11/17/2022 at 2:34 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

The good thing about AutoCAD and sketch programs and all of those things is it's very easy to learn. The hard part is learning the standards for materials and all the engineering side of things. Creating the model is quick and fun to do.

L for line, c for circle, very easy stuff.

Yeah I messed up my AutoCAD account because I put the school that is closest to mine on there and I just found out that you can add your school so I need them to change my school so I can verify it and get a free account.

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/17/2022 at 4:20 PM, Caidenh24 said:

Yeah I messed up my AutoCAD account because I put the school that is closest to mine on there and I just found out that you can add your school so I need them to change my school so I can verify it and get a free account.

Very cool, Best of luck with it.  For now, try the free google one.  I forget the name... he ben heck, on youtube, he uses it and has a ton of great videos on making things.  Adam savage is another great one to learn from!

[Caidenh24]

On 11/17/2022 at 4:24 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Very cool, Best of luck with it.  For now, try the free google one.  I forget the name... he ben heck, on youtube, he uses it and has a ton of great videos on making things.  Adam savage is another great one to learn from!

oh ok I didn't find the he ben heck guy or adam savage. What is the name of adam savages youtube channel? And do you have a link to the other persons channel? Thanks!

[nabokovfan87]

Ben Heck (does a lot of EE work, Laser cutters, mods, etc.)
https://www.youtube.com/@BenHeckHacks

Adam Savage (yep, that one guy):  Maker, special effects mastermind, and created anything you can think of.
https://www.youtube.com/c/tested/

[drewzero1]

Google's free CAD program is called SketchUp. I've used it to model rooms for estimating party supplies, but it's been a while. Never tried it for smaller objects though.

[Caidenh24]

On 11/17/2022 at 4:40 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Ben Heck (does a lot of EE work, Laser cutters, mods, etc.)
https://www.youtube.com/@BenHeckHacks

Adam Savage (yep, that one guy):  Maker, special effects mastermind, and created anything you can think of.
https://www.youtube.com/c/tested/

I don't see ant videos from the first guy on how to use sketch. Are the videos not made to be a tutorial? Thanks!

[Caidenh24]

Here are some images of my prototype. They don’t have segments I think I will try and design that in design SketchUp. I have been spending these like 2 days trying to figure out how to do it and I think I know how to use it enough to find out how to design something.

EDIT: the prototype is rough but it shows the shape of the filter. I think I need to make it like 3 inches longer though. Also I just added more photos I didn’t add them all

Edited November 18, 2022 by Caidenh24

[nabokovfan87]

you might have more rigidity with some foam board if you have an exacto knife and can use that to cut it.  I am not sure what glue you'd use to bond it, but I see that used all the time for walls and aquarium projects for fountains and other kinds of scapes like that.

I like the layout of what you have.  Looks good!

[Caidenh24]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:59 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

you might have more rigidity with some foam board if you have an exacto knife and can use that to cut it.  I am not sure what glue you'd use to bond it, but I see that used all the time for walls and aquarium projects for fountains and other kinds of scapes like that.

I like the layout of what you have.  Looks good!

This is just Hotglue but you might be thinking of silicon. It kind of looks like that. I am going to try to bring it to sketchup so I can use it for reference and add stuff. The part that went around the rim was a little small so I might make it like 1 and a half inches instead of one inch wide for the part that goes on the rim.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Caidenh24

[Caidenh24]

Ok I am slowly working on my 3d model. I got the filter modeled but I am working on making the segments water proof. Do you guys have any ideas with how I can make a silicon gasket? Thanks!

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/22/2022 at 12:30 PM, Caidenh24 said:

Do you guys have any ideas with how I can make a silicon gasket? Thanks!

You mean by hand? You can try manually making one out of 100% silicone or just using over the counter o rings. They have them in kits usually.

[Caidenh24]

On 11/22/2022 at 12:35 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

You mean by hand? You can try manually making one out of 100% silicone or just using over the counter o rings. They have them in kits usually.

Yeah or however I can. Wouldn’t over the counter o rings be like way to small? I need them to fit over the area that the 2 segments connect. Thanks!

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/22/2022 at 3:24 PM, Caidenh24 said:

Yeah or however I can. Wouldn’t over the counter o rings be like way to small? I need them to fit over the area that the 2 segments connect. Thanks!

https://www.amazon.com/Silicone-Assortment-Plumbing-Temperature-Resistant/dp/B0B9W9GFDK/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=food+grade+silicone+o+ring+kit&qid=1669159555&sprefix=food+grade+silicone+o%2Caps%2C251&sr=8-3

They have kits like this you can get.  You'd be looking for a larger size, 0 ring kit. Or just a specific length 0 right and then you can cut it as need be.  McMaster-Carr is used a lot for parts for prototyping but often a higher cost. You could try laying a bead of the silicone caulking type of material on parchment paper and letting that cure, see how playable it is for your prototype. Or make the plastic and then adhere it to the edge itself.

[Caidenh24]

On 11/22/2022 at 3:28 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

https://www.amazon.com/Silicone-Assortment-Plumbing-Temperature-Resistant/dp/B0B9W9GFDK/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=food+grade+silicone+o+ring+kit&qid=1669159555&sprefix=food+grade+silicone+o%2Caps%2C251&sr=8-3

They have kits like this you can get.  You'd be looking for a larger size, 0 ring kit. Or just a specific length 0 right and then you can cut it as need be.  McMaster-Carr is used a lot for parts for prototyping but often a higher cost. You could try laying a bead of the silicone caulking type of material on parchment paper and letting that cure, see how playable it is for your prototype. Or make the plastic and then adhere it to the edge itself.

ok thanks. hopefully by friday I will have a 3d model of the prototype done.

[Fish Folk]

Big picture, are you trying to basically build a long HOB across the back of an aquarium that can be used for aquaponics? Sometimes it’s good to step back and think about your end goal over and over. When we get into the “how to” of a build, details can bog down a project.

Here is a different — but similar idea — I sketched out awhile ago:

Basic idea is setting up matten barriers on the ends of a large aquarium, and using space between the glass sides  and the matten to pump water up into a grow tray, and release it back down on the opposite side. Key to this design was supporting the weight from the floor with a framed post. One gallon of water is ca. 8 lbs. 30-30 gallons up in an aquaponics tray is  160-240 lbs of water weight. Hanging that on the back of an aquarium is asking for trouble.

Rethinking everything… I’ve seen designs where a grow tray is actually suspended inside the tank, allowing 50% room out front for light and surface gas exchange. That eliminates everything: tank water flows through, and plants grow out top emersed.