Clear aquaponics HOB filter passion project

[Caidenh24]

On 11/22/2022 at 5:05 PM, Fish Folk said:

Big picture, are you trying to basically build a long HOB across the back of an aquarium that can be used for aquaponics? Sometimes it’s good to step back and think about your end goal over and over. When we get into the “how to” of a build, details can bog down a project.

Here is a different — but similar idea — I sketched out awhile ago:

 

Basic idea is setting up matten barriers on the ends of a large aquarium, and using space between the glass sides  and the matten to pump water up into a grow tray, and release it back down on the opposite side. Key to this design was supporting the weight from the floor with a framed post. One gallon of water is ca. 8 lbs. 30-30 gallons up in an aquaponics tray is  160-240 lbs of water weight. Hanging that on the back of an aquarium is asking for trouble.

Rethinking everything… I’ve seen designs where a grow tray is actually suspended inside the tank, allowing 50% room out front for light and surface gas exchange. That eliminates everything: tank water flows through, and plants grow out top emersed.

ok thanks I will look into that if my idea doesn't work. I want to try making it clear and on the back. it would probably be 2 gallons if not less when it comes but you can make it as big as you want with segmented pieces. Thanks!

That idea is good but if possible I want something slimmer. I guess if it doesn't work it shouldn't be to hard to fix all I would have to do is build a mount to make it higher up.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Caidenh24

[Caidenh24]

@drewzero1 Have you printed and tried the adapter yet? Can you please send me the model also so that I can try and print it at my school. If you need to send it to my email because it won´t work. My email is caidenhampshire24@gmail.com Thanks!

Edited November 29, 2022 by Caidenh24

[drewzero1]

On 11/29/2022 at 2:09 PM, Caidenh24 said:

@drewzero1 Have you printed and tried the adapter yet? Can you please send me the model also so that I can try and print it at my school. If you need to send it to my email because it won´t work. My email is caidenhampshire24@gmail.com Thanks!

Sorry, I was out of town for the weekend. I printed it before I left but haven't had a chance to try it... I realized I had to add an offset to the model because the sponge filter would need more space to avoid hitting the glass. I'll post it/send it when I get back to my computer.

[drewzero1]

Still no chance to try it but here's my v1 (straight) and v2 (offset) adapters.

I'm not sure if the offset is enough to clear the sponge, and I'm not super happy with the joints on the angled piece. Ideally the joints would be beveled for better flow and a cleaner seam. I'd like to make the taper more gradual as well.

[nabokovfan87]

What is wall thickness?

[Caidenh24]

On 11/29/2022 at 12:26 PM, drewzero1 said:

Sorry, I was out of town for the weekend. I printed it before I left but haven't had a chance to try it... I realized I had to add an offset to the model because the sponge filter would need more space to avoid hitting the glass. I'll post it/send it when I get back to my computer.

Sorry I forgot to respond. That looks good. I am almost done with the 3d model so I will probably be able to send it tomorrow. Thanks for designing the adapter piece and printing it out. That software you use sounds fun but hard to learn. I am thinking I can work on learning it when I am not really doing anything for my passion project. I can add it to my passion project also. Sense I get graded on my learning. I can learn that and get graded. Thanks for the help!

[drewzero1]

On 11/30/2022 at 12:45 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

What is wall thickness?

I believe it's set to 1mm for these prints, but since it's a parametric model it can be changed to whatever is needed.

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/30/2022 at 11:28 AM, drewzero1 said:

I believe it's set to 1mm for these prints, but since it's a parametric model it can be changed to whatever is needed.

Looks like it's pretty thin.  Depending on the printer you'll run into fill issues / fragile parts.  It probably "works" and prints but you might be missing out on layers to add strength and rigidity.  Real world, for just about everything injection molded / plastic I would suggest starting with .063 for your wall thickness.  Second to that you're going through either mm or inches on set intervals. This just makes it easier for tolerances. 

inches: .040, .050, .060, etc.  (or .032, .063, etc.)
mm: 1mm, 1.5mm, 2.0mm, etc.

Let's say the printer material diameter (at the extruder) is 0.5mm then you'd want at least a minimum of 2x that (I think that's right) so that you have enough room for an inner and outer wall.  You're "better off" with a minimum of 3x so that you have a full inner / outer wall and some internal structure.

In terms of design I just wanted to ask to mention that "minimum" and then however that works out with your nozzle diameter and filament (extruded) diameter will help you with part quality and rigidity.

Needless to say, I wish I had my computer running so I could model and do whatever you guys needed and help out!  I really enjoy the modeling process.

[Caidenh24]

On 11/30/2022 at 1:03 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Looks like it's pretty thin.  Depending on the printer you'll run into fill issues / fragile parts.  It probably "works" and prints but you might be missing out on layers to add strength and rigidity.  Real world, for just about everything injection molded / plastic I would suggest starting with .063 for your wall thickness.  Second to that you're going through either mm or inches on set intervals. This just makes it easier for tolerances. 

inches: .040, .050, .060, etc.  (or .032, .063, etc.)
mm: 1mm, 1.5mm, 2.0mm, etc.

Let's say the printer material diameter (at the extruder) is 0.5mm then you'd want at least a minimum of 2x that (I think that's right) so that you have enough room for an inner and outer wall.  You're "better off" with a minimum of 3x so that you have a full inner / outer wall and some internal structure.

In terms of design I just wanted to ask to mention that "minimum" and then however that works out with your nozzle diameter and filament (extruded) diameter will help you with part quality and rigidity.

Needless to say, I wish I had my computer running so I could model and do whatever you guys needed and help out!  I really enjoy the modeling process.

Yeah the 3d modeling is fun. I ordered a caliper so I can get more accurate measurements now. I have been using a tape measure to measure a thin tupperware container. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Caidenh24

[drewzero1]

Did a test fit of v2 while starting to print v3 and realized my measurements were a little off, so I updated the model and restarted the print. Works great so far! Model is available here: https://printables.com/model/330171-sponge-filter-adapter-for-hob-breeder-box

[Caidenh24]

On 12/1/2022 at 11:01 PM, drewzero1 said:

Did a test fit of v2 while starting to print v3 and realized my measurements were a little off, so I updated the model and restarted the print. Works great so far! Model is available here: https://printables.com/model/330171-sponge-filter-adapter-for-hob-breeder-box

Sorry I just saw it. Looks cool I see it coming all together. Here is a link to a video I made yesterday about. What my 3d model looks like along with some questions. Thanks!

EDIT: sorry I forgot the link. 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Caidenh24

[drewzero1]

Sounds like you've got a pretty solid plan for a prototype! I think I like where that latch design is going.

For mass production I'd probably recommend looking into molding the container and lip as one piece, but I'll defer to anyone with production experience on that one. (Most of my projects are one-offs.)

For the block off plate on the end, my suggestion would be to have a short end with the intake, another short end with the outflow, and as many middle pieces as you want to make the custom length.

I'm excited to see your project taking shape!

[Caidenh24]

On 12/3/2022 at 9:16 PM, drewzero1 said:

Sounds like you've got a pretty solid plan for a prototype! I think I like where that latch design is going.

For mass production I'd probably recommend looking into molding the container and lip as one piece, but I'll defer to anyone with production experience on that one. (Most of my projects are one-offs.)

For the block off plate on the end, my suggestion would be to have a short end with the intake, another short end with the outflow, and as many middle pieces as you want to make the custom length.

I'm excited to see your project taking shape!

Thanks! That seems like a way better idea for the block off plate.  what about manufacturing it for a prototype? Thanks!

Also not really related to that but what is the width of the intake tube on the breeder box. So I can get a idea of how big mine needs to be.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Caidenh24

[drewzero1]

On 12/3/2022 at 11:24 PM, Caidenh24 said:

Thanks! That seems like a way better idea for the block off plate.  what about manufacturing it for a prototype? Thanks!

I think for a prototype the print-and-glue method you describe in the video should be sufficient to see if the system works. I've been mulling over possible ways to construct the rest of the box. One idea that came to mind would be to bend some plexiglass to form the walls and bottom, and make the sealing lip component with a groove to fit the plexiglass. Plexi can be bent using either a heat gun (tricky) or a hot wire bender (much more precise). The school I attended had a hot wire bender in the shop class workspace, so it might be worth checking if your school does before building your own.

 

[Caidenh24]

On 12/4/2022 at 9:02 PM, drewzero1 said:

I think for a prototype the print-and-glue method you describe in the video should be sufficient to see if the system works. I've been mulling over possible ways to construct the rest of the box. One idea that came to mind would be to bend some plexiglass to form the walls and bottom, and make the sealing lip component with a groove to fit the plexiglass. Plexi can be bent using either a heat gun (tricky) or a hot wire bender (much more precise). The school I attended had a hot wire bender in the shop class workspace, so it might be worth checking if your school does before building your own.

 

ok thanks! I was thinking about doing the same thing. The sealing groove component would be hard to make the same size as in my model with acrylic. But I can print out part and silicon it to the acrylic box. Would that work. I don't see how else to make it so tiny with acrylic without a manufacture. I can see if the acrylic is thin enough to do so or if I can buy some really thin acrylic. What do you think would work better?? With either one I would still have to silicon or glue it to the other main box segment piece. Thanks!

EDIT: I have just realized something There is pieces on my seal that are 1 mm thick That is probably to thin and would snap. I think I will have to make the thinnest part 3.2 mm. so for the redesign now that I have calipers I can do accurate measurements and so I am just going to use the dimensions of a Tupperware seal.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Caidenh24

[Caidenh24]

@nabokovfan87 I was looking at the tolorences so is it like how much the measurment can differ from the original one so like if 0.5 inches has a tolorence of -/=/+ .040 then it could be. 0.54, 0.5, or 0.46? Thanks!

[TOtrees]

@Caidenh24 your decimals are off in your example. 0.5 inches plus or minus 0.04 would encompass all values between 0.496 inches to 0.504 inches. 

But reading above, make sure you're not mixing metric and imperial. I saw a reference to 0.5mm (printer material diameter at extruder), which is very different from 0.5 inches. 

[drewzero1]

On 12/5/2022 at 3:57 PM, TOtrees said:

@Caidenh24 your decimals are off in your example. 0.5 inches plus or minus 0.04 would encompass all values between 0.496 inches to 0.504 inches. 

But reading above, make sure you're not mixing metric and imperial. I saw a reference to 0.5mm (printer material diameter at extruder), which is very different from 0.5 inches. 

Are you sure? That doesn't add up to me. Been a few years since I took a drafting class but I'm pretty sure the values you list would be 0.5" +/- 0.004" instead.

For 3d printing it's usually easier to deal in millimeters, since that's what a lot of modeling and slicing tools default to.

[Caidenh24]

On 12/5/2022 at 1:57 PM, TOtrees said:

@Caidenh24 your decimals are off in your example. 0.5 inches plus or minus 0.04 would encompass all values between 0.496 inches to 0.504 inches. 

But reading above, make sure you're not mixing metric and imperial. I saw a reference to 0.5mm (printer material diameter at extruder), which is very different from 0.5 inches. 

Where did you get the numbers 0.496 and 0.504. I think I understood tolerances wrong. Thanks!

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/5/2022 at 1:12 PM, Caidenh24 said:

@nabokovfan87 I was looking at the tolorences so is it like how much the measurment can differ from the original one so like if 0.5 inches has a tolorence of -/=/+ .040 then it could be. 0.54, 0.5, or 0.46? Thanks!

I might be able to find a video but the way to view it is two ways.

1. Cost and quality increase when you have higher tolerances (dimensions are more common, less variability)

2. Some manufacturing methods have better tolerances than other.

3. The way you want things to fit is WHY you control tolerances.

So let's take your example.

Dimension shown is .5

Tolerance on the drawing is +/-.040

Dimensions should be .460-.540

Or....

If you list the dimension as .500 (more decimal places)

The tolerance is typically +/-.010

Dimensions expected are .490-.510

On 12/5/2022 at 2:57 PM, drewzero1 said:

Are you sure? That doesn't add up to me. Been a few years since I took a drafting class but I'm pretty sure the values you list would be 0.5" +/- 0.004" instead.

They can change per part or per drawing, as well as major companies that change them based on the part materials/manufacturing process.

On 12/5/2022 at 1:57 PM, TOtrees said:

But reading above, make sure you're not mixing metric and imperial. I saw a reference to 0.5mm (printer material diameter at extruder), which is very different from 0.5 inches. 

100%

Specifically find a format you want to use. Then follow that. If you're in the EU, we can find common tolerances for those engineering terms and in the US your looking for something like "NASA Engineering Manual" (yep it exists, totally awesome) or specifically ANSI / SAE tolerance documents.

[Caidenh24]

On 12/5/2022 at 4:10 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I might be able to find a video but the way to view it is two ways.

1. Cost and quality increase when you have higher tolerances (dimensions are more common, less variability)

2. Some manufacturing methods have better tolerances than other.

3. The way you want things to fit is WHY you control tolerances.

So let's take your example.

Dimension shown is .5

Tolerance on the drawing is +/-.040

Dimensions should be .460-.540

Or....

If you list the dimension as .500 (more decimal places)

The tolerance is typically +/-.010

Dimensions expected are .490-.510

They can change per part or per drawing, as well as major companies that change them based on the part materials/manufacturing process.

100%

Specifically find a format you want to use. Then follow that. If you're in the EU, we can find common tolerances for those engineering terms and in the US your looking for something like "NASA Engineering Manual" (yep it exists, totally awesome) or specifically ANSI / SAE tolerance documents.

Ok that makes sense. When would you want tolerance? Thanks!

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/5/2022 at 4:18 PM, Caidenh24 said:

Ok that makes sense. When would you want tolerance? Thanks!

Every dimension has a tolerance no matter what. That's just part of making something.

Let me try to find a video discussing the topic of controlling tolerances. 🙂

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Caidenh24]

On 12/5/2022 at 4:37 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Every dimension has a tolerance no matter what. That's just part of making something.

Let me try to find a video discussing the topic of controlling tolerances. 🙂

 

Thanks! I have a video I made because I need help measuring some pieces on a container for my 3d model. Thanks! 

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/5/2022 at 7:30 PM, Caidenh24 said:

Thanks! I have a video I made because I need help measuring some pieces on a container for my 3d model. Thanks!

On the calipers you can flip them over and measure the inside of surfaces a lot easier.  So what you would do is....

1. Measure the inside of the lid cavity (inside surface, dark blue line)
2. Measure the thickness of the first lip (red lines)
3. Measure the inside of the channel (light blue lines)
4. Measure the outside dimension of the channel (gives you outside edge, offset from inside edge)
5. Verify the thickness of the second lip (outside lip)



You also can use the end of the calipers to measure depth.

when measuring the depth that you were having issues with, use it along this red line here:


Keep in mind, and it's a lot easier to show you in person or talk through it vs. text.  But you know the height, thickness, etc. of that inner lip.  That would be easiest to get all your other dimensions by using the offset commends.  Measure a dimension, then offset it from that face.

So for the "outer lip" the one you're having issues with.  I would measure the inner lip first and sketch that out. Measure the height and then offset the thickness of the lid. So now you have an inner horizontal edge as well as the outer horizontal edge. You have a vertical edge and a height. like this:

The measurements you don't know is the depth (you can easily measure it) or the thickness of that leftmost (outer) lip. 

So you measure the depth, you have an idea of what all of the dimensions are except for that outer thickness.  This is where method comes into play.  It's likely an injection molded part. Thicknesses for everything you're seeing should be fairly consistent. Using the corner you might be able to get that thickness or you can take a flat edge and set it against the surface and measure the thickness that way also.

red line = "something flat" that you put into the cavity to measure against.

Edited December 6, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Caidenh24]

On 12/5/2022 at 7:38 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

On the calipers you can flip them over and measure the inside of surfaces a lot easier.  So what you would do is....

1. Measure the inside of the lid cavity (inside surface, dark blue line)
2. Measure the thickness of the first lip (red lines)
3. Measure the inside of the channel (light blue lines)
4. Measure the outside dimension of the channel (gives you outside edge, offset from inside edge)
5. Verify the thickness of the second lip (outside lip)



You also can use the end of the calipers to measure depth.

 

I can't measure the light blue area because I can't fit small jaws that are used for measuring inside of stuff in there. It barely doesn't work. Also what does measuring the dark blue area do? also for outside dimension do you mean the outside like sides of the channel? What do you mean by the offset how do I find it with the offset? Thanks!