Unknown Deaths Increasing

[RichNJ]

I have an established well maintained community planted 55g.  Usually 8.2 ph, 25 nitrates/0 nitrites/0 ammonia/6dh hardness/40-80 KH ppm, almost no variation in water parameters for 6 months+.

I had 4 midsize angelfish, 10 lemon tetra, 8 white skirt tetra, 15 cardinal tetras, 2 hillsteam loaches, 4 cory cats, 1 harlequin razborora, 1 zebra danio, 2 mollies, 2 nerites, 4 ammanos, and 2 mystery snails.  Bladder snails here and there too.

On 9/4 I added 5 cardinals (to make a nice little school), 5 harlequin razbora (so the other guy wasn't alone).  I don't quarantine and buy from a reputable store that treats all stock.  On 9/5 we did a scheduled simple water change (about 30% per my normal 1 or 2 times per month), didn't touch the filter or gravel vac, just water only.

On 9/10, we lost a lemon tetra, but all else was okay.  I figured he just gave out.  Yesterday, on 9/13, we lost 3 cardinals and one hillstream loach.  I tested the water, and all was normal per the above parameters, although slightly harder at 7dh, but not widely harder (maybe I had a bigger scoop of my normal equilibrium?).

Today, 9/14, we lost another cardinal and one lemon tetra.

Before all of these events, we haven't lost a single fish for months, so this is sudden for us.  The biggest variables are the new fish from 9/4, especially since older fish died.  No signs of ich on anyone and there are no signs of any fungus, spots, marks, etc. 

I am considering a course of ich-x since I have it in stock ready to go at home.  Is my tank crashing or do we have some kind of other disease?  All else looks good, but the only other thing I can think of is our grumpy make angel who chases everyone, but doesn't bite.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Flumpweesel]

Last time I had random deaths it was due to stray current from a cracked heater . 

So maybe check for that. They occurred mainly after adding new fish. No idea how long it was damaged before I realised.

[RichNJ]

On 9/14/2022 at 3:28 PM, Flumpweesel said:

Last time I had random deaths it was due to stray current from a cracked heater . 

So maybe check for that. They occurred mainly after adding new fish. No idea how long it was damaged before I realised.

thanks for responding...heater looks good.  I am reluctant to bombard the fish with meds and be overly reactionary.  However, will do a water change tonight anyway.  Was planning on one in a few days anyway.

[Flumpweesel]

Good plan, watch the tank as it well you might get clues from behaviour.

Fingers crossed for you

[nabokovfan87]

What is the temp?

[RichNJ]

Temp is 77-78 and tested with two thermometers, which is inline with our regular temp.  Heater seems to be normal.  House is warm since it’s warm still here where we live, so no winter heat loss yet.  

We lost one more Cardinal since the above update.  Had an SAE chomping on him, but cleaned it up.  RIP a little dude!

we just did a 40% water change tonight.  They all look more active which is weird too.  Will keep watching.  

[RichNJ]

Another update…I think the tank is sick.  This is the first sign.  So what is this spot circled here?

 

 

[Colu]

With sudden unexplained deaths it's a possess of elimination your water parameters are fine with adding new fish it could be bacteria with rapid loss of fish or parasitic what I would do is treat with maracyn2  when it arrives in food feeding a small amount twice a day for 7 days and follow up with a course of paracleanse in food 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Colu

[RichNJ]

One more update, this AM one more lemon died and we also lost an angelfish.  The one from the picture above is alive and white spot looks the same.  So whatever it is, the tank is sick and the disease is moving fast.  Based on the picture above, I wonder if it's columnaris, but that was the only fish I saw with it and we have around 10 deaths so far that didn't seem to have any spots.  I have ich-x, so going to start that today, but will also buy the med trio from our friends in Edmonds!  I figured I'd try Ich-X and Maracyn per this blog posting:  https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/fish-fungus  but will start with the Ich-X first since we have in stock at home.  Maybe I'll do a round of paracleanse after it arrives to be sure.  Will treat conservatively I think.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by RichNJ

[Colu]

with more deaths I think it would good to treat with antibiotic medications first such as kanaplex maracyn2 as ick x treats ich and fungal infection's so I don't think it would have much of an effect on what's killing your fish 

[Mmiller2001]

I'm with @Colu, bacterial infection and hopefully it's not the nasty one.

[RichNJ]

On 9/15/2022 at 10:49 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

I'm with @Colu, bacterial infection and hopefully it's not the nasty one.

alright thanks all...was thinking it's bacteria too, but have to hang on for the meds to arrive.  figured just do Ich-x now anyway per the "how to treat" article:  https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/how-to-treat-sick-aquarium-fish

Will do the Maracyn on Saturday when it gets here.  What do you think of the 1 dose for 1 week description per the Co-Op blog (along with 1 dose of Ich-x and 1 of paracleanse all at once) vs. the instructions on the box which say to treat everyday for 5 days (one package per 10 gallons)?  The Co-op is so much less dosing than the box instructions.

 

[quikv6]

I think you should dose according to the package, given you clearly have something going on in the tank. Kanaplex would be a great med to treat with, as it is broad, and treats more gram negative bacteria than Maracyn would. But whatever you use, I would do a full course of treatment at the least, even if you have no more random deaths.

[Gannon]

Best of luck to you on this. I'm so sorry its happening to you 😞

 

[RichNJ]

On 9/15/2022 at 10:47 AM, Colu said:

with more deaths I think it would good to treat with antibiotic medications first such as kanaplex maracyn2 as ick x treats ich and fungal infection's so I don't think it would have much of an effect on what's killing your fish 

Hi Colu - since you seem to comment regularly on meds and diseases...what do you think on using Maracyn based on the instructions (5 doses over 5 days) vs. the Co-Op blog post of the trio for 1 does for a whole week?  https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/how-to-treat-sick-aquarium-fish

[Colu]

On 9/15/2022 at 5:05 PM, RichNJ said:

Hi Colu - since you seem to comment regularly on meds and diseases...what do you think on using Maracyn based on the instructions (5 doses over 5 days) vs. the Co-Op blog post of the trio for 1 does for a whole week?  https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/how-to-treat-sick-aquarium-fish

The co-op med trio is a preventive treatment I would do a full course of maracyn following instructions on the box I would also get holed of kanaplex it's a more broad spectrum antibiotic treatment just in case maracyn doesn't work

[RichNJ]

Update this AM...no deaths overnight.  Awaiting Maracyn in the mail.  Should arrive tomorrow.  Cardinals look a bit rough, kind of milky and slow, but they are eating.  Spot on the angelfish from above about the same, but not growing.

Interestingly enough, since we did loose one angel, the other two healthy ones sort of expanded their territory in the tank (including the alpha of the tank).  However, the sick one above kind of hides in the amazon swords and just comes out to eat.

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 9/16/2022 at 5:22 AM, RichNJ said:

Update this AM...no deaths overnight.  Awaiting Maracyn in the mail.  Should arrive tomorrow.  Cardinals look a bit rough, kind of milky and slow, but they are eating.  Spot on the angelfish from above about the same, but not growing.

Interestingly enough, since we did loose one angel, the other two healthy ones sort of expanded their territory in the tank (including the alpha of the tank).  However, the sick one above kind of hides in the amazon swords and just comes out to eat.

I would follow @Colu meds in the FOOD. 

What does the water look like? Is it super clear or kind of cloudy? If it's not super clear I would question the bio filtration. 

Check out Cory's video on using course foam only. Look for optimizing the HOB or something similar. The more foam and bigger filter the better to prevent these bacterial problems. 

[ccc24]

I’m with you. I’ve had this exact thing happen in my tank. I’ve done a round of Maracyn, Maracyn 2 & paracleanse and I’ve still got random deaths happening. It doesn’t make any sense. 

[RichNJ]

So my latest…today is day 5 of maracyn.  Only one more death, a Cardinal on day 2.  Will do a approx 25% water change tomorrow.  

The angelfish from the pictures above isn’t doing well, so maracyn isn’t helping him.  But the deaths have calmed down and others are much more active, so I think overall it’s working and worth it.  Maybe the angel is too far sick at this point.  

On Saturday might do one more water change and then will do a round of paracleanse per the box instructions (so two doses).  I figured do the paracleanse to have a clean slate. 

[Colu]

The fact that deaths have slowed means it was more than likely bacteria what I would do is a course of kanaplex in food feeding a small amount twice a day for 7 days if your using kanaplex in food you can dose the tank with paracleanse at the same time only if you using kanaplex in food if you want to go down the route of treating for parasite and bacteria at the same time 

[RichNJ]

On 9/21/2022 at 8:19 PM, Colu said:

The fact that deaths have slowed means it was more than likely bacteria what I would do is a course of kanaplex in food feeding a small amount twice a day for 7 days if your using kanaplex in food you can dose the tank with paracleanse at the same time only if you using kanaplex in food if you want to go down the route of treating for parasite and bacteria at the same time 

Thanks, and what do you think of the white spot on the angelfish above?  Is that bacterial, it's about the same as it was even after Maracyn, maybe a little bigger.

I have one other cardinal with a humpback motion, so he might be too far gone.

 

[Colu]

It could be an injury or bacterial if it's bacterial the treatment i suggested very effective broad spectrum antibiotic treatment 

[RichNJ]

On 9/22/2022 at 9:05 AM, Colu said:

It could be an injury or bacterial if it's bacterial the treatment i suggested very effective broad spectrum antibiotic treatment 

alright, so this angel is not eating either and kind of sulks in the plants (gasping a bit too), so I am thinking of quarantining in a small tank and maybe hitting it with the Kanaplex.  Kanaplex is a stronger med than Maracyn right?

[Colu]

Yes kanaplex is stronger antibiotic treatment if he's refusing food I would treat with the kanaplex food and paracleanse to dose the tank that will cover all bases