Quarantine Tank

[PAULZER055]

I’m setting up a 10 gallon quarantine tank and am going to use the ‘med trio’ once the water is cycled and I’m able to put fish in it.  I’m also going to put something, either snails or a small pleco in it to live permanently, to keep the water cycled after I remove the fish for my main aquarium.  My question is once I put a second set of fish in the quarantine tank, after the first set is removed and put in the main aquarium, and I use the ‘med trio’ for them, will that hurt the permanent occupants in the quarantine tank?                   
I apologize if this is confusing but hope someone understands what I’m trying to ask.  Thank You.

[Ken Burke]

You are saying:

1. Cycle a 10 gal qt

2. Insert permanent resident, let the tank stabilize 

3. Insert new fish group 1, use med trio

4. Move new fish group 1 to permanent home, let qt “rest” and use chemical filtration 

5. Insert new fish group 2, use med trio

question: will the second or later treatments harm the permanent residents?

my opinion: not likely, if u allow remove all the meds and allow the tank to reset between treatments.

 

interested in the opinion from luminaries like @Guppysnail, @modified lung, @Fish Folk, etc

 

[FLFishChik]

You could just keep an extra sponge filter in an existing tank to keep it cycled and then put it in the QT tank when needed. That way you can break down the QT tank when not in use.

[Ken Burke]

On 8/5/2022 at 11:45 PM, FLFishChik said:

You could just keep an extra sponge filter in an existing tank to keep it cycled and then put it in the QT tank when needed. That way you can break down the QT tank when not in use.

True.  But that eliminates the sneaker tank….

[modified lung]

On 8/5/2022 at 9:35 PM, Ken Burke said:

You are saying:

1. Cycle a 10 gal qt

2. Insert permanent resident, let the tank stabilize 

3. Insert new fish group 1, use med trio

4. Move new fish group 1 to permanent home, let qt “rest” and use chemical filtration 

5. Insert new fish group 2, use med trio

question: will the second or later treatments harm the permanent residents?

my opinion: not likely, if u allow remove all the meds and allow the tank to reset between treatments.

 

interested in the opinion from luminaries like @Guppysnail, @modified lung, @Fish Folk, etc

 

Sry, I have very little experience with treatments. But my guess would be the same thing you said.

[Guppysnail]

I don’t preemptively medicate. If you are using permanent resident I would not recommend pleco. 
Pleco can be sensitive to medication so residual from some meds the soak into seals and such could cause problems. If you use snails I recommend invasive. Ramshorn, bladder, pond. For the same reason as many meds harm and or kill snails.

If you go with invasives a wafer one time a week is all you need to feed to keep it cycled. 
Each time you have a new temp resident in qt you just pluck a handful into a bowl with plant clippings and they will be fine.  That way if the meds kill them you have some to start over with  I use bladder snails because they are not sensitive to water quality. One small wafer each week and they won’t mega overpopulate. They are also what I use to cycle tanks if I don’t have seasoned media

 

I want to add I just keep extra sponges. Permanent qts are a pain and many meds kill your cycle anyway. I use a tote. 

[PAULZER055]

Thanks for everyone’s advice.  I was going back and forth about premeditating or not, and still am.  I’ve also heard about using existing media in the new tank and the tank would be instantly cycled.  A while ago I set up a 5 gallon betta tank, shook a bag of bio balls in the water (turned the water quite dirty 😂) and used the sponge, from the existing tank, in the filter.  Later that day, prior to adding a betta, I decided to check the ammonia level, just to be safe, and the ammonia level was still registering.  I’m not sure of the exact reading but I know it wasn’t zero.  Maybe I’m not understanding what ‘instant cycle’ actually means.

Also, just to be clear, I understand that ‘beneficial bacteria’ isn’t in the water.  I saw a few YouTube videos that recommended shaking used bio balls and squeezing existing sponges in the new aquarium to help speed up the nitrogen cycle.

Again, I appreciate everyone’s advice.  None of my buddies, or siblings, have aquariums so it’s nice to have people to bounce things off of.

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 8/6/2022 at 6:05 AM, PAULZER055 said:

Thanks for everyone’s advice.  I was going back and forth about premeditating or not, and still am.  I’ve also heard about using existing media in the new tank and the tank would be instantly cycled.  A while ago I set up a 5 gallon betta tank, shook a bag of bio balls in the water (turned the water quite dirty 😂) and used the sponge, from the existing tank, in the filter.  Later that day, prior to adding a betta, I decided to check the ammonia level, just to be safe, and the ammonia level was still registering.  I’m not sure of the exact reading but I know it wasn’t zero.  Maybe I’m not understanding what ‘instant cycle’ actually means.

Also, just to be clear, I understand that ‘beneficial bacteria’ isn’t in the water.  I saw a few YouTube videos that recommended shaking used bio balls and squeezing existing sponges in the new aquarium to help speed up the nitrogen cycle.

Again, I appreciate everyone’s advice.  None of my buddies, or siblings, have aquariums so it’s nice to have people to bounce things off of.

No the BB is not in the water, it needs something to grow on. Adding a cycled sponge for example will work. 

If you feel like you need a fish or snail in the QT to keep it cycled no need, just give it a bit of fish food once a week or so. This will break down to ammonia and feed your BB. This is how lots of people cycle a tank (fishless) including me.

 

I think I would keep it covered or at least out of the light as much as possible just to keep algae away. 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Wrencher_Scott

[redfish]

@PAULZER055  All good questions.  How often do you think you will need the QT?

I've been debating keeping a QT running or not.  Short term it makes sense if we are adding more fish frequently.  Long term I think we might only use one when new fish are needed.  I need to get an extra small sponge filter running in a tank for use in a QT when needed.

[Guppysnail]

On 8/6/2022 at 9:05 AM, PAULZER055 said:

Maybe I’m not understanding what ‘instant cycle’ actually means.

In my experience it’s never instant. A full stable cycle requires a lot more bacteria on surfaces than just in a filter. I often register a tiny touch of ammonia for 2-3 days and nitrite in small amounts for a week or two as those bacteria grow slower. It stays low enough to be safe if I do small water changes though. I add tons of plants to QT. Especially floaters as they get Co2 unlimited. I never have issues resulting in sick fish from poor water. 
 

Here is one I set up yesterday for fish I’m picking up today. 

[Katherine]

On 8/6/2022 at 8:05 AM, PAULZER055 said:

Later that day, prior to adding a betta, I decided to check the ammonia level, just to be safe, and the ammonia level was still registering.  I’m not sure of the exact reading but I know it wasn’t zero.

Next time give it 24 hours and then check. I moved a small sponge from my 75g to my 10g QT and it converted .5ppm ammonia from my tap water through both stages to nitrates in less than 12 hours. It just depends on the typical bio load of the tank you're bringing it from and how much ammonia you put in the new tank.

[PAULZER055]

Thanks to everyone for your advice.  I did forget that food breaking down in a new, or existing, tank causes ammonia which beneficial bacteria needs.  Guess I won’t need any permanent residents in the quarantine tank 😂.  

Another question for you all:  Do you know if Fritzzyme 7 needs to be refrigerated or the bacteria, in the bottle, will die?  It doesn’t say on the bottle, just says store in a cool, dry place (don’t quote me on that).   I ordered some from Amazon, long with Fishless Fuel, followed the directions on both bottles (I even doubled the Fritzzyme 7 per a video on YouTube).  It’s been 4 days and I don’t see any change when I test for ammonia, I’m just wondering if the bacteria died in transit or if it takes longer than 4 days to work. 

Thanks for any advice you might give.

[modified lung]

On 8/6/2022 at 6:05 AM, PAULZER055 said:

 ‘instant cycle’

For an instant cycle you'd have to transfer both the aged filter/substrate and about +/- 50% of the water from the aquarium where the bacteria originally grew. I do this all the time with readings of 0 ammonia and nitrite afterward. I'd consider within 12 hours to be instant. Eating takes time.

On 8/6/2022 at 6:05 AM, PAULZER055 said:

I’m not sure of the exact reading but I know it wasn’t zero.  

Ammonia tests have a range of accuracy. Under 0.25 is below that range which means 0.05 and 0.25 will look basically the same on the test. I would consider a 0.25 reading to most likely be cycled.

On 8/6/2022 at 6:05 AM, PAULZER055 said:

Also, just to be clear, I understand that ‘beneficial bacteria’ isn’t in the water.

That's a common misconception. Nitrifying bacteria can be cultured just from water samples. You can actually cut your cycle time in half just by filling a new aquarium with new substrate and filter 50-75% with water from a mature aquarium. But the bacteria does grow much thicker and more dense in biofilms which needs a surface.

On 8/6/2022 at 7:42 AM, PAULZER055 said:

It’s been 4 days and I don’t see any change when I test for ammonia, I’m just wondering if the bacteria died in transit or if it takes longer than 4 days to work. 

It's unlikely the bacteria died unless their temperature went above 90°F for too long. It has been hot out lately.

Other than that bottled bacteria is hit or miss because they have to break dormancy before they work. How long that takes depends on how long they've been bottled and how different your water is from the water they were originally grown. That can take a few days to a few weeks.

[PAULZER055]

I appreciate everyone’s advice, thank you all very much