Treating for Parasites - Found Some, Need Advice

[nabokovfan87]

Hey everyone,

I Have been treating my tank as shown in my journal pre-emptively for internal parasites simple because of lethargy and fish not really behaving the way I thought they normally should.  I did recently add some otos as well, added directly to the tank because I knew I was going to treat everything shortly.

 

So, that being said I did round 1 of paracleanse. On the 12th was when I did the WC and when I was giving the fish a break. That being said it's 5 days later and I just was looking at the amano shrimp Zoeys floating and I saw several worms in the water column. I can't identify them, I can't take a photo reliably and get a clear shot to ask for help but they are about 1/2" long and not on the glass. They don't look like detritus worms that I've seen before, smaller.

 

I assume these were internal to the fish and a treatment would take care of them? I plan to follow up with a round of expel-p as well.

Should I start the next round of paracleanse tomorrow for the sake of getting rid of these guys or do I need to wait 1.5 more days? What would you do?  Would you add salt whenever the next round of meds are added?

I really appreciate it, first time for me on this one and I definitely am not excited I found the worms

Update, thankfully, I did manage to capture it.

 

Update #2: Re-reading this. https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/fish-parasites

Looks like I'm scheduled to wait 8-9 more days before adding more meds. Not sure what to do here. 😞

Edited June 18, 2022 by nabokovfan87
added video / article

[Brandon p]

On 6/18/2022 at 4:04 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Hey everyone,

I Have been treating my tank as shown in my journal pre-emptively for internal parasites simple because of lethargy and fish not really behaving the way I thought they normally should.  I did recently add some otos as well, added directly to the tank because I knew I was going to treat everything shortly.

 

So, that being said I did round 1 of paracleanse. On the 12th was when I did the WC and when I was giving the fish a break. That being said it's 5 days later and I just was looking at the amano shrimp Zoeys floating and I saw several worms in the water column. I can't identify them, I can't take a photo reliably and get a clear shot to ask for help but they are about 1/2" long and not on the glass. They don't look like detritus worms that I've seen before, smaller.

 

I assume these were internal to the fish and a treatment would take care of them? I plan to follow up with a round of expel-p as well.

Should I start the next round of paracleanse tomorrow for the sake of getting rid of these guys or do I need to wait 1.5 more days? What would you do?  Would you add salt whenever the next round of meds are added?

I really appreciate it, first time for me on this one and I definitely am not excited I found the worms

Update, thankfully, I did manage to capture it.

 

I think that they are anchor worms or (some other worms)I have the same type video Look for today.  The worms Detached from inbetween the scales of gourami fish. I could not see them until treated.

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/18/2022 at 1:52 AM, Brandon p said:

anchor worms

Should be Y shaped for these, right? These little things are just worm shaped. No Y.

[Brandon p]

On 6/18/2022 at 4:56 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Should be Y shaped for these, right? These little things are just worm shaped. No Y.

The anchor worm’s would be. I look on the computer because the ones I had looked exactly the same. Just like a white worm free swimming right? That’s what mine was. Be people kept say anchor worm. I think if you treated it left the fish weather it was an internal or extrenal worm. Give me 15 mins and I’ll see wif I find the video. It won’t give you answers but you get to see someone else had the s  as me thing

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/18/2022 at 2:03 AM, Brandon p said:

Just like a white worm free swimming right?

Yeah. Treating with paracleanse right now. Hopefully this doesn't drag out too long while I'm finishing this treatment and waiting to treat expel-P.

[Brandon p]

[nabokovfan87]

You had those and treated them?

[nabokovfan87]

Anyone have any thoughts?

I'm currently not doing anything with the tank due to being sick, but I've had an aquarium buddy tell me they are pretty sure it's detritus worms.

Anyone else experienced anything like this? Never seen them before except after treating the tank with meds. Might be a coincidence.

[nabokovfan87]

They seem to come out moreso at night (honestly, been sick and can't say that for a fact, they may just be more difficult to see during the day). I see more than I did previously and they swim in the water column but I don't see them anywhere else. They are about 1/2" long very thin. 

Anyone seen anything like this before?

I was checking the tank because it's storming outside and wanted to see if it would trigger the Corys. I'm afraid to even stick my hands in the tank at this point without gloves. It's raining now, so we'll see what the Corys do.

I will add a second dose of paracleanse on the 26th

Edited June 23, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Colu]

What your describing sound like detritus worm's to me 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

This looks alot like a worm I saw in a video. The person who made the video called it a microworm. This is the video and it is at 6:02.

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Odd Duck]

Those look like detritus worms.  “Detritus worms” is a catch all category for a variety of different worms that are not considered pathogens.  Whiteworms, blackworms, Grindal worms, etc, are all types of detritus worms, but only the blackworms are fully aquatic detritus worms.  That said, here’s my recommendation for treating for internal parasites in fish.  Excuse the large font since documents created in my “Notes” app won’t let me adjust the font size when copy/pasted here.  At least not on my iPad.  Haven’t ever tried on my computer.

Deworming

Siphon out debris from the bottom before and after dosing to remove expelled worms, debris, etc.  Levamisole is inactivated by organic debris and by light, so dose after lights out and black out the tank for 24 hours, remove organics via water change and cleaning the bottom of debris as much as possible.  It’s likely that levamisole does what it can do within the first hour, but best to follow directions precisely.  If you have a bare bottom hospital tank, it might be best and easiest to transfer the fish for the duration of treatment - up to 5 weeks total treatment time if doing 3 doses of praziquantal.  Levamisole treatment should be weekly for 4 treatments.  Praziquantal treatment should be at least every other week for 2-3 treatments and it is left in for a week at a time.  It can be dosed the day after levamisole treatment.  Remove any carbon or Purigen from filters before dosing.

A typical treatment regimen: 

1. 50% water change with careful siphoning of debris from the bottom of the tank.

2. Dose with levamisole and black out the tank for 24 hours.  Then 50% water change siphoning the entire bottom of the tank.

3. Dose with praziquantal directly after the second 50% WC.

4. One week later, 50% water change siphoning the bottom thoroughly.  Dose with levamisole following directions in step 1-2.

5. One week later (start of week 3 of treatment), repeat all steps 1-4 over another 2 weeks time.

6. Do last WC one week later after third dose of praziquantal.

Not all snails will tolerate treatments, so best to remove any snails in the tank.

Trying to clarify:

Week 1: WC and siphon, levamisole and blackout, siphon and WC, prazi.

Week 2: WC and siphon, levamisole and blackout, siphon and WC.

Week 3: WC and siphon, levamisole and blackout, siphon and WC, prazi.

Week 4: WC and siphon, levamisole and blackout, siphon and WC.

Week 5: WC and siphon, levamisole and blackout, siphon and WC, prazi (or can do only prazi this week and skip 5th treatment of levamisole).

Week 6: WC and siphon, then back to routine maintenance.

Hope that helps to make thing clearer.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Odd Duck
Clarify instructions, then add weekly list.

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/23/2022 at 6:48 AM, Colu said:

What your describing sound like detritus worm's to me 

I am assuming what happened was I pulled the airstone after meds to clean things, the filter itself was clean and working, but became clogged and then stopped circulating as much.

From what I read these worms can't harm me if they get on me, that accurate?

OD's directions below give me a lot of new information for treatment. What pointed me towards low oxygen was redness on the otos gill plates. They seem to be "ok" but something I'm keeping an eye on. Knowing I need to cut lights, that's new. Never heard that before. I need to check what active ingredients are on the meds I have, figure out the treatment.

Thank you as well @Chick-In-Of-TheSea @Odd Duck

[Colu]

Detritus worm's are harmless nothing to worry about your fish will probably snack on them @nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

Thanks @Colu I think they have been amassing in the HoB filter basket, away from the fish. But understood. The shrimp went nuts right after I cleaned it.

[Brandon p]

On 6/23/2022 at 9:48 AM, Colu said:

What your describing sound like detritus worm's to me 

I know mine where not they would come from the scales of the fish after treating mean. I guess they could have been but that would have been the worst infestation ever that they were going after the the fish. I can only speak for myself but you would treat and watch the worms start to come out of try to make it out.

[nabokovfan87]

Minor update. A few of my amanos are very very red. Usually they have a dark brown tint when they molt but this is bordering on cherry shrimp colors.

 

I had thought I lost one by the skimmer but it was just a molt.

I've been feeding only Xtreme flakes. Nothing out of the ordinary. The amanos have been very feisty and chasing one or two around. I assume for the sake of breeding. One big female chased by males.

Edited June 26, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

Hopefully a better view. I've never seen an amano like this. Normal one. Followed by 2 on the wood very red.

[Colu]

Am not an expert when it comes to shrimp from what I have read about Amano shrimp colour change is often caused by some from of stress poor water quality transportation stress or other factors 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/28/2022 at 1:29 PM, Colu said:

Am not an expert when it comes to shrimp from what I have read about Amano shrimp colour change is often caused by some from of stress poor water quality transportation stress or other factors 

So that was "resolved" so to speak when I cleaned out the filter and fixed flow. Water parameters test absolutely fine.

KH, GH, PH is good. Nitrates are under 10, everything else is 0.  Temp has risen a lot because it's summer.

I've had these amanos for a long time and never had any issues like this. Very strange to me. 

Given the worms, what you're saying makes some sense. I think after they molt they will be fine.

I post the photos because I'm really not sure if it's an indicator or something else. I really have never seen amanos do that or even seen posts about it.

@Coludo you think it can be caused by the algae itself? It's BBA/Staghorn in this aquarium. And I've seen spots of it slightly reddish. I don't know if it's just the wood peeking through some spots or if it's slowly dying off. I can try to get a photo but lighting is going to be difficult.

Edit: Here's testing results prior to WC today and cleaning the filter. Still couldn't get all the worms, but got a few hopefully.

Edited June 29, 2022 by nabokovfan87
Added Test Results

[nabokovfan87]

I really don't think these are detritus worms just based on behavior. I can totally understand that it could be or might be, but I really just don't think these act any way shape or form like they are supposed to. Never on the glass, always free floating, and I've never seen them on the substrate at all. @modified lungd

Do you have any idea what other options it could be? I'm not sure who else on the forum would be a good person to provide insight, if anyone has any names please tag them as well.

Update for now, I've gone ahead and added round 2 of paracleanse. I plan to treat with expel P as well and then report back on any changes.  I can add some Ich-X as well and I have prazipro as a last resort if need be. If there is any of those I can treat at the same time, that's guidance that would be very beneficial. I have the guidance above and went to double check those notes as well tonight.

 

Thanks again everyone.

Edit: so it looks like I can run prazipro (if need be) and Expel-P at the same time using the directions from above. That helps a lot. Balancing the light is going to be tricky but hey.... Maybe that helps the algae chill out too. It almost looks like coral the way it's filling in on the wood. 😩

Edited June 29, 2022 by nabokovfan87
added note at the end.

[Colu]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:22 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

So that was "resolved" so to speak when I cleaned out the filter and fixed flow. Water parameters test absolutely fine.

KH, GH, PH is good. Nitrates are under 10, everything else is 0.  Temp has risen a lot because it's summer.

I've had these amanos for a long time and never had any issues like this. Very strange to me. 

Given the worms, what you're saying makes some sense. I think after they molt they will be fine.

I post the photos because I'm really not sure if it's an indicator or something else. I really have never seen amanos do that or even seen posts about it.

@Coludo you think it can be caused by the algae itself? It's BBA/Staghorn in this aquarium. And I've seen spots of it slightly reddish. I don't know if it's just the wood peeking through some spots or if it's slowly dying off. I can try to get a photo but lighting is going to be difficult.

Edit: Here's testing results prior to WC today and cleaning the filter. Still couldn't get all the worms, but got a few hopefully.

Am not sure weather the algae has caused this

[modified lung]

@nabokovfan87 I see worms like that all the time. I've even fed them to my fish. I don't remember what I thought they were called off hand. The ones I've seen usually stick to surfaces and cover themselves in detritus just like bloodworms. If they get knocked off their surface, they flail around like that in the water column for a while. They don't seem to be harmful but I wouldn't be surprised if there's hundreds of different worms that look just like that.

Edited June 29, 2022 by modified lung

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/29/2022 at 8:04 AM, modified lung said:

The ones I've seen usually stick to surfaces and cover themselves in detritus just like bloodworms. I

Saw this today, seems to be where they are taking hold. Not the substrate but specifically here.

I did confirm after removing them these are worms and not slime of some kind.

 

Part of my issue is these worms stick to the water column and the tank doesn't really have anything to predate on them. Especially in the filter itself.

Edit: found this video which does have a chemical solution to try if all else fails.

Adding this as well just in case someone stumbles along.

These guys are DEFINITELY a lot smaller than the thing shown in Irene's video. They don't swim that way at all (see OP video) and they are about 1/4 or 1/3 the size, very small diameter. About the thickness of a human hair or so.

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

Woke up to a dead amano today. I'm guessing something happened and it wasn't able to molt properly?

It is one of the red ones.