sairving Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 I seem to be having some substrate issues. Back in march I redid the substrate of my planted tank after the great tank catastrophe of 2022. I bought a new bag of brightwell planted substrate and tried to locate pool filter sand. Its a seasonal item around here. Caribsea anything was out of stock too. I bought a bag of Estes Stoney River Sand (the natural uncoated stuff). The grains aren't rounded but almost jagged and flat I've noticed that the plants seem to be having a hard time rooting in the sand. My guess is it's getting compacted. That my crypts have been stunted even though they get plenty of light. Option 1 was to just add another bag of aquasoil but its out of stock everywhere. Probably stuck in a shipping container. Option 2 is to buy a new bag of pool filter sand. My only gripe about the Menards pool filter sand is the color. Its cheap though, $10 for 50 pounds. Option 3 Caribbean Peace River gravel or Sunset gold sand. I'm just not sure how large the grain size is on the sunset gold sand. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzDaddy21 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 On 6/16/2022 at 10:12 AM, sairving said: My guess is it's getting compacted Yes, it does and if sitting on the bottom no oxygen will get through and if you don`t keep it stirred up the sand will turn black and stink. Play sand is more course but still needs stirred up. I had lots of problems with sand and do not like all the maintenance involved even with gravel, so I changed 5 of 6 tanks to something better. I still have a tank with pool sand (not much sand maybe 10 lbs. and the rest is gravel.) Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettsPapa Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 I've had good luck with pool filter sand. I like the natural color, and the price, and the fact that it needs little to no rinsing. For tanks where I want dark substrate I use Black Diamond sandblasting sand, which is also relatively inexpensive but does require significant rinsing. Malaysian trumpet snails will help with compaction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairving Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 On 6/16/2022 at 10:36 AM, JettsPapa said: I've had good luck with pool filter sand. I like the natural color, and the price, and the fact that it needs little to no rinsing. For tanks where I want dark substrate I use Black Diamond sandblasting sand, which is also relatively inexpensive but does require significant rinsing. Malaysian trumpet snails will help with compaction. I had decent luck with pool filter sand the last time too. I used a most of it for mixing into the potting mix for houseplants. Maybe a different brand. I would actually love to try black diamond blasting sand but it's hard to get because I'm in a metro area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettsPapa Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 On 6/16/2022 at 10:42 AM, sairving said: I had decent luck with pool filter sand the last time too. I used a most of it for mixing into the potting mix for houseplants. Maybe a different brand. I would actually love to try black diamond blasting sand but it's hard to get because I'm in a metro area. I get mine at Tractor Supply, but I understand you probably don't have one close. Have you checked with a welding supply company? They might have it, and if not may be able to direct you to a place that does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theplatymaster Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 gravel: Sand is so messy for water changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettsPapa Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 On 6/16/2022 at 11:10 AM, Theplatymaster said: gravel: Sand is so messy for water changes I haven't had any trouble with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melkor Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) Caribsea sunset gold is fairly fine. I picked up 2 50lb bags of caribsea torpedo beach on sale(its an even coarser version of crystal river) for my upcoming 40b planted tank. Its quite coarse, similar to pool filter sand. I have crystal river sand in my 6 gallon betta tank that my crypts and anubia root into just fine. Only downside is the millions of little shrimp poops that accumulate over a week are fairly noticeable lol. Edited June 16, 2022 by Melkor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairving Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 On 6/16/2022 at 11:10 AM, Theplatymaster said: gravel: Sand is so messy for water changes The Estes for some reason is a more annoying at water change time than pool filter sand. I think the grains are smaller than pool filter sand. It would be fine if it wasn't functioning as a cap and there were no plants. On 6/16/2022 at 1:42 PM, Melkor said: Caribsea sunset gold is fairly fine. I picked up 2 50lb bags of caribsea torpedo beach on sale(its an even coarser version of crystal river) for my upcoming 40b planted tank. Its quite coarse, similar to pool filter sand. I have crystal river sand in my 6 gallon betta tank that my crypts and anubia root into just fine. Only downside is the millions of little shrimp poops that accumulate over a week are fairly noticeable lol. Good to know about how fine it actually is. I really like the color. I have a nerite and while she does a really good job at keeping thing clean, the amount of poop from one snail is apparent lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 On 6/16/2022 at 9:10 AM, Theplatymaster said: gravel: Sand is so messy for water changes So there's a definite technique for water changes with sand. I would argue if you're using buckets it's much easier because it's less work to keep it clean. The sand holds the mulm on it's surface and you can vac the surface (with a good siphon) without worrying about putting sand down the drain. If you're using a python, there is a pretty good chance some sand will end up in the drain. That's the only issue I foresee. I actually don't prefer or mind either one! I love the look of sand, I love the look of some gravel. I think the fish behave better with sand and it's easier on them (like running a bare tank in some way) for my corydoras. I will argue, if you buy cheaper sand, play sand, etc. There's going to be a lot of fines and you're going to likely have issues long term. Find good quality, consistent size sand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveO Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) I use Caribbean Super Naturals Peace River sand. The plants love it and it won't compact. Grain size is 1mm to 2mm. For comparison sake sunset gold is . 25mm to 1mm. Edited June 16, 2022 by DaveO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairving Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 On 6/16/2022 at 3:48 PM, DaveO said: I use Caribbean Super Naturals Peace River sand. The plants love it and it won't compact. Grain size is 1mm to 2mm. For comparison sake sunset gold is . 25mm to 1mm. I've been looking at the peace river gravel or torpedo beach sand if I don't go with pfs. Sunset gold would most likely cause the same problem I have now. I did manage to find some BDBS but the grit isn't the correct size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanked Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 I have one pool filter sand tank; the others are aquarium gravel. @nabokovfan87 mentioned the only real problems with PFS, or any sand. The debris remains on top, and removing the debris will also remove sand. I had problem with water clarity when I tried play sand. Compaction does not seem to be a problem for me with filter sand. Some of the plants seem to do better in the sand. All of my tanks are significantly different from each other so I can't say that sand is the reason. Whichever substrate you choose, ask about buying damaged bags, as they will be heavily discounted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettsPapa Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 On 6/17/2022 at 8:44 AM, Tanked said: I have one pool filter sand tank; the others are aquarium gravel. @nabokovfan87 mentioned the only real problems with PFS, or any sand. The debris remains on top, and removing the debris will also remove sand. I had problem with water clarity when I tried play sand. Compaction does not seem to be a problem for me with filter sand. Some of the plants seem to do better in the sand. All of my tanks are significantly different from each other so I can't say that sand is the reason. Whichever substrate you choose, ask about buying damaged bags, as they will be heavily discounted. I've never had a problem with that. Maybe other people use a stronger siphon than I do. In fact, I've even forced the end of the siphon tube an inch or so down into the sand to get gunk that may be below the surface. The sand is momentarily lifted up into the tube, but then it spills back out when I raise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanked Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 On 6/17/2022 at 10:11 AM, JettsPapa said: I've never had a problem with that. Maybe other people use a stronger siphon than I do. In fact, I've even forced the end of the siphon tube an inch or so down into the sand to get gunk that may be below the surface. The sand is momentarily lifted up into the tube, but then it spills back out when I raise it. Now that you mentioned it, I do have a small aquarium gravel vac in one of the junk drawers that might work well with sand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gumby Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 I use a relatively coarse black sand which plants don't seem to have issues rooting in. No issues with gravel vaccing as I have carpeting plants so I just waft it an inch or so above the substrate if there's any build up of detritus. Having plenty of Cory's stops it building up tho 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairving Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share Posted June 19, 2022 On 6/18/2022 at 8:42 AM, Tanked said: Now that you mentioned it, I do have a small aquarium gravel vac in one of the junk drawers that might work well with sand. I use a python mini and that is usually fine. When I first started out, I had an aqueon gravel vac. That thing sucked up everything, including the substrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairving Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share Posted June 19, 2022 On 6/19/2022 at 6:59 AM, Mr Gumby said: I use a relatively coarse black sand which plants don't seem to have issues rooting in. No issues with gravel vaccing as I have carpeting plants so I just waft it an inch or so above the substrate if there's any build up of detritus. Having plenty of Cory's stops it building up tho I've been trying to get more pygmy cories for months. They've been completely out of stock in the area. My lfs did get some in about two weeks back, but they were $10 a fish. Needless to say, I wasn't spending that much money on pygmy cories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairving Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share Posted June 19, 2022 I haven't had a chance to get to the store yet for sand. The dog had a bath at Petsmart yesterday and I looked at the Sunset Gold sand. Good color but way to fine grained. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to get some later this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanked Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 On 6/19/2022 at 8:41 AM, sairving said: I use a python mini and that is usually fine. When I first started out, I had an aqueon gravel vac. That thing sucked up everything, including the substrate. I dug out the small vac. yesterday. It is sized for smaller/shorter aquariums; It worked. It did not remove any sand, and there was a minimal amount of silt raised. This may in part be because I installed a smaller diameter hose. It seems to remove less water, while removing the same amount of surface debris. The pool sand substrate in this tank has never been given a deep cleaning since installation more than a year ago. It was a surprise to see how much mulm had accumulated beneath the surface. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairving Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 Update! Monday afternoon I tried to pickup a bag of pool filter sand. Everyone was out of stock nearby. I ended up ordering 15 pounds of Caribsea Torpedo Beach (which ended up being too much). Yesterday evening, I removed as much of the other sand as possible (left the aquasoil) and added the new stuff. Houston, there was most definitely a problem in the substrate. The smell was awful and the crypts barely had any roots. My root tabs from GLA where also not doing anything. I'm switching back to NilocG root tabs. I'll tweak the depth of the torpedo beach sand over the next week. The substrate is still deep but plants generally seem to do better. It's also weird seeing my tank without the tannin stained water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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