Phosphates too low

[SkaleyAquatics]

On 3/5/2022 at 9:45 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

My progress was never possible with out amazing journals posted by top aquarists

This has 100% has helped me also. 4 months ago, it was just a dream seeing all this amazing tanks with amazing plant growth and here I stand today actually having to trim plants. But by no means am I close to where I want to be. Without the journals I have followed and learned from I would not be where I am today. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Mmiller2001 I'm just waving my miller flag that's all. 

[Mmiller2001]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:59 PM, SkaleyAquatics said:

This has 100% has helped me also. 4 months ago, it was just a dream seeing all this amazing tanks with amazing plant growth and here I stand today actually having to trim plants. But by no means am I close to where I want to be. Without the journals I have followed and learned from I would not be where I am today. 

I couldn't say it better!

Just tap this forum as much as you can. Just know that @gjcarew just moved his 75 gallon journal here to the Co-Op, he freaking won the 2021 AGA Dutch style competition. We also have @Seattle_Aquarist who is amazing and knows this plant business so well! It's truly is a great time to be on this forum! Good stuff happening! There are so many others here and its drawing more very day! I reduced my fish deaths so much just by following Corey's med trio and the advice of @Colu. Okay, cheese over...good things are happening, I'm excited!

[SkaleyAquatics]

On 3/5/2022 at 10:24 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

I couldn't say it better!

Just tap this forum as much as you can. Just know that @gjcarew just moved his 75 gallon journal here to the Co-Op, he freaking won the 2021 AGA Dutch style competition. We also have @Seattle_Aquarist who is amazing and knows this plant business so well! It's truly is a great time to be on this forum! Good stuff happening! There are so many others here and its drawing more very day! I reduced my fish deaths so much just by following Corey's med trio and the advice of @Colu. Okay, cheese over...good things are happening, I'm excited!

I look forward to following your journals @Mmiller2001 and @gjcarew and hope to compete against you both in a few years 😉 

[Mmiller2001]

On 3/5/2022 at 8:35 PM, SkaleyAquatics said:

I look forward to following your journals @Mmiller2001 and @gjcarew and hope to compete against you both in a few years 😉 

Bring it!!!!!!

 

[modified lung]

Maybe someday I'll grow a plant. I just got hooked up with a Fluval 3.0 for cheap.

[SkaleyAquatics]

On 3/5/2022 at 10:47 PM, modified lung said:

Maybe someday I'll grow a plant. I just got hooked up with a Fluval 3.0 for cheap.

You will get there. I even manage to grow low tech plants in my 8.2 ph 22dgh and 14 dkh water. 

[modified lung]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:52 PM, SkaleyAquatics said:

You will get there. I even manage to grow low tech plants in my 8.2 ph 22dgh and 14 dkh water. 

I just need my interest to get peaked somehow 

[Tommy Vercetti]

Update: I have started my dosing of GLA fertilizers and also I have received my TDS meter. Tap water reads 420 ppm and my aquarium yesterday tested at 330 ppm. I don't really know what those numbers mean but at least I have a base-line.    user error (tank tested at 564 TDS)

Edited March 11, 2022 by Tommy Vercetti

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 2/27/2022 at 8:24 AM, Tommy Vercetti said:

I have 14 gallon cube, 4 months old. Heavily planted, pressurized co2 injected, chihiros wrgb2 light running at 80%, fluval stratum substrate, dosing easy green at 5 pumps every other day, water change 50% once every week.

Ammonia 0

Nitrites 0

Nitrates 20 to 30 ppm

Ph 7.2

dKH 7

Phosphates 0 (using api liquid test kit)

Plant list; S repens, dwarf baby tears carpet, cabomba, alternanthera reineckii, water sprite, pearl weed, cardinal plant, Monte Carlo, hygrophila pinnatifida, and a few other plants that I don't know the names of.

 

Live stock: 7 Panda Corydoras, 9 cherry barbs, 3 pygmy cory doras, 3 male guppies, 5 guppy fry (from a female that was moved to another tank). 6 amano shrimp, 3 neocardina shrimp, estimated 10 to 15 bladder snails.

I have staghorn algae (I think). I have been spot treating it with seachem excel (1.5 ml everyday). That treatment does kill the algae but it has become a game of wack-a-mole. The algae just pops up somewhere else in the tank. I was told by my local and respected fish shop that low phosphates may be the cause of this algae. 

I don't know where to start should I just start with seachem Phosphorus and see where that goes? Maybe I am way off base. 

 

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

Hi @Tommy Vercetti

That is going to be a nice tank once you get these issues straightened out.  Could you please give me a better picture of the plant in the photo below, one closer and more clear please?  I believe I see marginal chlorosis with white leaf veins, it that correct?
Thank you, -Roy

[Tommy Vercetti]

On 3/8/2022 at 11:42 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Tommy Vercetti

That is going to be a nice tank once you get these issues straightened out.  Could you please give me a better picture of the plant in the photo below, one closer and more clear please?  I believe I see marginal chlorosis with white leaf veins, it that correct?
Thank you, -Roy

Here is a better photo of that S. Repens

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi @Tommy Vercetti

Do you weekly water changes, dose nutrients as you have been.  Keep you photoperiod and light intensity the same.

I want you to go to your local drug store and pick up some Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate/MgSO4*7H2O).  Get the cheapest stuff on the shelf with no additives, scents, etc......should cost about $1 - $2 for a pound.

When you do you next water change do everything the same but add 1/2 teaspoon of epsom salt per 10 gallons - in your case 1/2 teaspoon.  This will add about 6.6 ppm of Mg to your tank.  Thereafter, when you do your water changes add the same amount per 10 gallons of new water added (if you do a 50% water change/ 5 gallons then 1/4 teaspoon for you).  Do this for one month and let me know how things go. 

The picture below comes from your thread.  If you look closely to the leaf with the arrow pointing at it you will see what is known as interveinal chlorosis (basically green leaf veins with lighter greenish yellow material between the veins.  When this happens with new leaves (btw yours look good) it is caused by insufficient available iron.  When it happens to leaves as they mature it is due to insufficient available magnesium.  Hope this helps! -Roy

[Tommy Vercetti]

Earlier in this tread, I state that I purchased a dry fertilizer kit that includes this (I am almost positive that this would be the same Epsom salt) : 

Also can this be mixed with my macros or micros for the sake of simplicity?

Edited March 9, 2022 by Tommy Vercetti

[Tommy Vercetti]

[Tommy Vercetti]

I live in Las Vegas Nevada and our tap water comes from Lake Mead on the Colorado River. That tap water should be very high in calcium and magnesium.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Tommy Vercetti

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 3/8/2022 at 5:34 PM, Tommy Vercetti said:

I live in Las Vegas Nevada and our tap water comes from Lake Mead on the Colorado River. That tap water should be very high in calcium and magnesium.

Hi @Tommy Vercetti

According to the Southern Nevada Water Authority you Lake Mead has about 69 ppb of calcium (very, very low) and about 23 ppm of magnesium (higher than most).

Do you know if there is a water softener system on your water source (especially if in an apartment or condo building)?  The symptom in the system is most likely caused by insufficient available magnesium.  This can be caused by not enough Mg in the water or by too much of another nutrient effecting the uptake of Mg.  According to Munder's Chart of Nutrient Interactions the most likely candidate for impeding uptake would be calcium (but your water should have very low calcium however excess phosphorus or silicone can also cause low uptake of magnesium.  Do you know if you have high phosphorus levels?

Yes, that bottle of Mg Macronutrient is indeed Epsom Salt. -Roy

Edited March 9, 2022 by Seattle_Aquarist

[Tommy Vercetti]

On 3/8/2022 at 10:40 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Tommy Vercetti

According to the Southern Nevada Water Authority you Lake Mead has about 69 ppb of calcium (very, very low) and about 23 ppm of magnesium (higher than most).

Do you know if there is a water softener system on your water source (especially if in an apartment or condo building)?  The symptom in the system is most likely caused by insufficient available magnesium.  This can be caused by not enough Mg in the water or by too much of another nutrient effecting the uptake of Mg.  According to Munder's Chart of Nutrient Interactions the most likely candidate for impeding uptake would be calcium (but your water should have very low calcium however excess phosphorus or silicone can also cause low uptake of magnesium.  Do you know if you have high phosphorus levels?

Yes, that bottle of Mg Macronutrient is indeed Epsom Salt. -Roy

Roy, thanks for offing to help.

I am not sure where you read those numbers. I have never seen calcium listed that low in Lake Mead and would like to read that data. But the Las Vegas Valley Water District has calcium listed at 70 ppm and Magnesium at 23 ppm. I do not have a water softener on my house.  My phosphates are low (hence the title of this thread) they were measuring at 0 and currently are 1ppm. Silicone, okay there is Silicone that holds the glass of my aquarium together. 

 

Thank you for trying to help, I really do appreciate it but I am going to follow the advice given by @Mmiller2001 until I get a handle on this staghorn algae, which is the main concern and goal at this time. 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi @Tommy Vercetti

Here are the sources for the numbers:
https://www.snwa.com/water-quality/reports/summary-alfred-merrit-smith-treatment-plant.html
https://www.snwa.com/water-quality/reports/summary-river-mountains-treatment-plant.html

Have you actually checked you Ca ppm and then computed your Mg ppm using the dGH method?

I met @Mmiller2001at the AGA International Convention our club hosted in 2019 here in Seattle.  I'm sure he can help you as well, let us know how things progress, -Roy

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

On 3/9/2022 at 1:53 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Tommy Vercetti

Here are the sources for the numbers:
https://www.snwa.com/water-quality/reports/summary-alfred-merrit-smith-treatment-plant.html
https://www.snwa.com/water-quality/reports/summary-river-mountains-treatment-plant.html

Have you actually checked you Ca ppm and then computed your Mg ppm using the dGH method?

I met @Mmiller2001at the AGA International Convention our club hosted in 2019 here in Seattle.  I'm sure he can help you as well, let us know how things progress, -Roy

 

Thanks for that. I have an api calcium test kit but it says that it is for saltwater. Do you think that will work for freshwater?

[Mmiller2001]

On 3/9/2022 at 2:53 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

I met @Mmiller2001at the AGA International Convention our club hosted in 2019 here in Seattle.  I'm sure he can help you as well, let us know how things progress, -Roy

You probably met a different Miller, I have never been to Seattle. However, I look forward to meeting you in person one day! 😁

[Tommy Vercetti]

@Seattle_AquaristUsing this Calcium test kit from API that clearly says that it is for Salt Water, I get a result of 80 ppm calcium from my tank.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Tommy Vercetti

[Tommy Vercetti]

Update: The Cabomba have responded to GLA fertilizers already. I am starting to see some green growth where as before the new growth was reddish brown.  It makes me happy to see that!

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Sorry, @Mmiller2001the Miller I met was from Iowa.  @Tommy VercettiI don't know if there is one specifically for freshwater, the one I use is Salifert, the AP! looks like it may be fairly accurate as well keeping in mind that the level of nutrients in our tap water vary with the amount of rainfall and snow that is in the watershed that feeds our local water supply.  The formula to compute the amount of Mg in the water is this formula (ppm GH - (2.5 x Ca ppm)) /4.1 = Mg ppm 

There isn't an exact number that I have seen that is optimum because each plant species has it's own parameters, when it comes to Ca and Mg I try to keep a Ca:Mg ratio in the 3:1 to 4:1 range which works well for me.  -Roy

[Tommy Vercetti]

On 3/9/2022 at 5:03 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Sorry, @Mmiller2001the Miller I met was from Iowa.  @Tommy VercettiI don't know if there is one specifically for freshwater, the one I use is Salifert, the AP! looks like it may be fairly accurate as well keeping in mind that the level of nutrients in our tap water vary with the amount of rainfall and snow that is in the watershed that feeds our local water supply.  The formula to compute the amount of Mg in the water is this formula (ppm GH - (2.5 x Ca ppm)) /4.1 = Mg ppm 

There isn't an exact number that I have seen that is optimum because each plant species has it's own parameters, when it comes to Ca and Mg I try to keep a Ca:Mg ratio in the 3:1 to 4:1 range which works well for me.  -Roy

I have emailed API to ask them if I can use it for freshwater (still waiting on their reply) but I suspect that it can be used on freshwater as well as saltwater. I am having a bit of trouble getting a gh test kit locally. So I may need to order one online.

[Tommy Vercetti]

On 3/9/2022 at 5:07 PM, Tommy Vercetti said:

I have emailed API to ask them if I can use it for freshwater (still waiting on their reply) but I suspect that it can be used on freshwater as well as saltwater. I am having a bit of trouble getting a gh test kit locally. So I may need to order one online.

Confirmed By API via email: 

Thank you for contacting API Technical Services. You can absolutely use the API Calcium kit for freshwater. You would follow the instructions just the same as for saltwater.