Guppies & Bettas & Shrimp, Oh My!

[zelibeli]

I guess I should clarify my topic title... Yes, I will be journaling about keeping some guppies and bettas and shrimp and some other fishy folk, but I have multiple nano tanks for them to dwell in attempted safekeeping. Maybe I should make separate journals for each tank? But I do tend to rehome critters between my tanks so I think it's good to start off with one journal and then branch off to more if I see the need. 

I just re-set up all of my tanks at the beginning of October 2021. Interestingly, we had a toxic spill near my home in early Fall 2021 and we were evacuated from our home (but my tanks had to remain) for about a month. When we finally were cleared by the EPA to return, my tanks needed quite a bit of maintenance so I hit the semi-reset on them. All new substrate, but retained the tanks, animals, plants, hardscape & filtration.

To start off, I'll do a quick intro post of each of my tanks and then I'll feel like I can give journal updates. 

Level: newbie hobbiest fishkeeping 
Goals: to keep my aquatic friends happy and healthy

All tanks:
Freshwater: Detroit area of Michigan = hard water
Live plants
Ramshorn snails
Substrate: Bottom layer of Fluval Stratum, capped with a mix of course filler sand & pebbles from Home Depot & crushed coral. <-- I'm super weird about providing enough calcium for the ramshorn snails. The layer of Fluval Stratum is just to spread the wealth without making me break my bank on dirt. 

One 36 gallon bowfront: Acquired April 2020 from my son who had it for 2 years prior after upgrading from a 10 gallon he had for 4 years prior to that. Stocking: Home to 9 corydoras (1 bronze, 2 spotted, 6 panda), 1 betta (female, crowntail), 2 long-finned black skirt tetras, 1 pink glofish, 12 black neons, 2 otocinclus, 1 rubber lip pleco.
Filtration: Fluval 207 canister.  

One 20 gallon long: Acquired March 2021.
Stocking: 12+ cherry shrimp, 3 otocinclus, 9 guppy fry (assorted)
Filtration: Fluval 107 canister (with a modified large Aquarium Co-Op Pre Filter Sponge on the intake)

One 10 gallon tall: Acquired September 2020
Stocking: 1 betta (female, vieltail), 1 otocinclus
Filtration: HOB

One 10 gallon tall: Acquired Decemberish 2020
Stocking: 1 betta (female, vieltail), 1 otocinclus, 2 panda corydora babies
Filtration HOB

One 5.5 gallon: Acquired Januaryish 2021
Stocking: 3 guppy females awaiting return to the minipod outside, 3 amano shrimp, 1 otocinclus, 2 panda corydora babies
Filtration: HOB

One 5.5 gallon (office tank): Acquired Octoberish 2021
Stocking: 3 gold and red tuxedo guppies
Filtration: HOB

One 1 gallon: Acquired: unknown 2020
Stocking: java moss & ramshorn snails
Filtration: this little internal thingie that it came with, some course sponge shoved in

I really wish I would have found this forum earlier. I feel like there's so much I would have liked to have documented. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by zelibeli

[CorydorasEthan]

On 1/4/2022 at 2:08 PM, zelibeli said:

I guess I should clarify my topic title... Yes, I will be journaling about keeping some guppies and bettas and shrimp and some other fishy folk, but I have multiple nano tanks for them to dwell in attempted safekeeping. Maybe I should make separate journals for each tank? But I do tend to rehome critters between my tanks so I think it's good to start off with one journal and then branch off to more if I see the need. 

I just re-set up all of my tanks at the beginning of October 2021. Interestingly, we had a toxic spill near my home in early Fall 2021 and we were evacuated from our home (but my tanks had to remain) for about a month. When we finally were cleared by the EPA to return, my tanks needed quite a bit of maintenance so I hit the semi-reset on them. All new substrate, but retained the tanks, animals, plants, hardscape & filtration.

To start off, I'll do a quick intro post of each of my tanks and then I'll feel like I can give journal updates. 

All tanks:
Freshwater: Detroit area of Michigan = hard water
Live plants
Ramshorn snails
Substrate: Bottom layer of Fluval Stratum, capped with a mix of course filler sand & pebbles from Home Depot & crushed coral. <-- I'm super weird about providing enough calcium for the ramshorn snails. The layer of Fluval Stratum is just to spread the wealth without making me break my bank on dirt. 

One 36 gallon bowfront: Acquired April 2020 from my son who had it for 2 years prior after upgrading from a 10 gallon he had for 4 years prior to that. Stocking: Home to 9 corydoras (1 bronze, 2 spotted, 6 panda), 1 betta (female, crowntail), 2 long-finned black skirt tetras, 1 pink glofish, 12 black neons, 2 otocinclus, 1 rubber lip pleco.
Filtration: Fluval 207 canister.  

One 20 gallon long: Acquired March 2021.
Stocking: 12+ cherry shrimp, 3 otocinclus, 9 guppy fry (assorted)
Filtration: Fluval 107 canister (with a modified large Aquarium Co-Op Pre Filter Sponge on the intake)

One 10 gallon tall: Acquired September 2020
Stocking: 1 betta (female, vieltail), 1 otocinclus
Filtration: HOB

One 10 gallon tall: Acquired Decemberish 2020
Stocking: 1 betta (female, vieltail), 1 otocinclus, 2 panda corydora babies
Filtration HOB

One 5.5 gallon: Acquired Januaryish 2021
Stocking: 3 guppy females awaiting return to the minipod outside, 3 amano shrimp, 1 otocinclus, 2 panda corydora babies
Filtration: HOB

One 5.5 gallon (office tank): Acquired Octoberish 2021
Stocking: 3 gold and red tuxedo guppies
Filtration: HOB

One 1 gallon: Acquired: unknown 2020
Stocking: java moss & ramshorn snails
Filtration: this little internal thingie that it came with, some course sponge shoved in

I really wish I would have found this forum earlier. I feel like there's so much I would have liked to have documented. 

Welcome to the forum! Sounds like you have some great tanks!

[Levi_Aquatics]

Welcome to the forum! I will enjoy following this thread. 

[zelibeli]

First post: My office tank

I have a bit of a issue with one of my guppy guys. I try to zoom in on him here, but he's laying under the heater. He is alive. He moves if I get my tweezers under there, but I don't like to bug him a lot. He's been like this for almost 2 weeks. 

Video but you can't see him: 

 

History of these guys. I started with a group of 6 that I bought from Petsmart in May of 2021. They were in a 20 gallon long for most of the time. One died the next morning after I bought them, one died about a week later. I didn't worry too much about their passing as the other 4 seemed fine and nothing against Petsmart, but I figured, maybe petsmart related. Four were doing fine until October when I re-set up their tank and one passed. I chalked it up to stress because the other tankmates were all fine. I moved them to my office tank in early December (it had been set up since late September and was testing fine). Now one of the three has taken to just laying in the corner. Other than he lays around, he looks fine. No gasping or anything, but I also don't see him eating. 

I feed a mix of Hikari micro pellets, fluval bug bites flakes, freeze dried bloodworms, frozen daphnia & brine shrimp (alternating types throughout the week). They get fed 2 x a day Monday-Friday and then they fast (or eat tank findings) for the weekends. 

And of course I realized today that I used my last strip test at the office last week, so I'll bring one in tomorrow for more details on water parameters, but I do weekly water changes of 1.5 gallons weekly and dechlorinate with Prime Concentrated Conditioner. I use the water in my office plants so the water change happens regardless of testing. This tank does get doses of API Leaf Zone weekly as well (leftover from before I found out about Easy Green).  I use a syringe to measure the Prime and plant food because the tank is so small.

Edited January 5, 2022 by zelibeli

[zelibeli]

More on the #3 office guppy guy this morning. 

vid: 

Water is checking out. This dude is still laying on the bottom of the tank. He is out from under the heater today and I can get a closer look at him. It looks like there's a chunk missing from his tail. He's always had that dark spot on his tail, so that's not new. It doesn't look like his tail has been nipped though.... maybe he lost it wedged into the hardscape? He still didn't come up to eat. I have a 1 gallon aquarium I could put him in for rest/observation, but I'm not sure if that would be better or maybe just unnecessary stress.

 

[Guppysnail]

Putting him in a smaller tank with a cycled filter and aquarium salt may help him a bit. I have heard over the years but cannot confirm the sources big box pet stores get their guppies from pay high water prices and often mix sea water in for water change to offset the cost. I cannot confirm this so do not take this as gospel. However guppies from big box chain stores have perked up for me with a touch of aquarium salt. I used 1 tsp for 2 gallons. I have no clue what recommended doses are. The aquarium salt will also help if there is external parasites or external bacterial infection going on rotting his tail and help prevent it from getting fin rot. Best of luck to your little one. 

[GameCzar]

LOVE Guppies!  PetsMart guppies were tough for me, I got some fry out of them but they all died off.  The fry seem to be tougher though.  
 

[zelibeli]

@Guppysnail : I have 2 sponges shoved into the hob so I can use one of those and I'll take some salt in with me tomorrow and give it a try. He did come out a bit today again later but still just along the bottom. 

@GameCzar : These guys don't seem to be too strong. My assorted girls I bought for my mini pond are down to 3 of 6 that I bought in August. They did have babies, but they ate almost all of them. I saved 9. Hopefully they will be my minipond fishies this summer and I'm hoping the 3 remaining mom's give me a few more before then.  These were my first guppies ever. My LFS does have some assorted guppies I could intro to the mix or I'm thinking about ordering a fancier trio this spring. 

 

[zelibeli]

I recently moved my blue veil tail female (Nebula) out of my 36 gallon community tank and into a 10 gallon tall. She had been in the bigger tank since May and always has been fine, but I've noticed her wedging her self to rest so I wanted to put her someplace where I could control the flow for her a bit more. The tank already had 1 oto and 2 baby panda corydoras (born in November). She's always been peaceful in the community tank, but she had more room in there, so I was keeping an eye on her.  Tonight I saw her down in the gravel with the baby pandas looking for extra treats. I didn't get it on camera but I'll keep trying. Just some footage of the tank for my journal to get a starting point: 

Nebula is about 2 years old. 

[zelibeli]

Update on Office Guppy #3

I have him in a 1 gallon tank (all I have spare at the moment) with a filter stuffed with some media from the original tank. I used 1/2 a teaspoon of API aquarium salt (box instructions). I used Prime to dechlorinate. I forgot to bring in a heater for this set up. The temp is 72.4 which according to guppyexpert.com is on the low end of fine. I acclimated him before adding him in to the new space.  

Any additional tips/advice is appreciated. 
 

vid: 

 

[Guppysnail]

Add the heater. It will increase his metabolism and rev up his immune system. Though they can survive at 72 it is harder on them. I have zero luck keeping guppies below 76. 77-78 I have found is the sweet spot for mine. Keeping my fingers crossed for you. 

[zelibeli]

@GuppysnailI think I'll move the heater from the 5.5 gallon into the recovery tank for today. The healthy guppies should handle the lower temp better than the sick one. I can't bring in another heater until tomorrow. I'm stuck at work now for the day and tonight is my niece's birthday so I won't be able to get back to the office until tomorrow morning. I have about a 45 minute one way commute from home to work so it's not always easy for me to fit in a trip to the office. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by zelibeli

[zelibeli]

There's a LFS near my work! I'm going to go on my lunch and see if I can get a 2nd heater. And not buy any fish. I won't buy any fish.... omg... I can do this. I don't have any place to put them. I have a sick fish to fix before doing a new thing. I'm going to be responsible and go into this store and only buy a mini-heater. I'm posting this to myself... 

 

[zelibeli]

Office tank situation update:

success and failure

10w heater acquired and we're up to 80.5 F in the 1 gallon and a-salted guppy is still alive

but also 

 

there's something wrong with me.

 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Well yeah that could be a problem LOL. Don’t get me wrong I’ve been there and done that but it’s important for you to plan ahead. With all the nanos you have you have plenty of media to start a qt so I think having a 5 g for this purpose would be a good idea. Another idea is have a tote - sterilite or hefty or Rubbermaid- and have an air pump, heater and everything in it prepared for this eventuality.

I’d like to second what @Guppysnailstated that big farms that handle livebearers are notorious for using a lot of salt - the fish like it, livebearers love minerality, reduces illness, better yields, shipping deaths are reduced etc. Big box stores get their fish almost exclusively from big outfits. @GameCzaranectodal evidence would agree with your assessment that they do poorly and offspring do well. I’ve had this happen with some established breeders as well honestly.

Your guppy boy looks better with salt. I’m heartened to see you’re using crushed coral. getting your guppies on your tap water without salt it may take a generation of young to allow you to do so. You don’t need a lot. Once a week throwing in 1 tablespoon of salt with your water change is very reasonable. Even with water changes some salinity will remain if you decide to do it once a month. I like instant ocean as it has a lot of minerals besides sodium chloride. 

[Torrey]

On 1/4/2022 at 2:10 PM, zelibeli said:

I use a syringe to measure the Prime and plant food because the tank is so small.

I do the same! Plus, every tank has its own dedicated infant medicine syringe to fill test tubes for water tests.

 

On 1/5/2022 at 8:48 PM, zelibeli said:

Nebula is about 2 years old.

Nebula is beautiful. Once upon a time, I bred bettas. I still learned a ton watching Gianne's members presentation. Worth the membership!

The bettas that I kept 1 large IAL/ gallon, and kept a lot of IAL tannins specifically in the tank, lived the longest. Two years is the official lifespan for bettas, yet with a tiny amount of salt in the water, and a lot of IAL in the water, I was able to get most of my bettas to live to 5 years. 

There's now peer-reviewed research that explains why bettas live longer with IAL/cattapa leaves in the water. 

 

On 1/6/2022 at 6:44 AM, zelibeli said:

The temp is 72.4

I second @Guppysnail on the temp.

I don't see the textbook sunken belly that tends to show up with guppy wasting disease. I would still hesitate to add any new livestock to any tank these guppies are in, because if it is guppy wasting disease, I have not heard of any successful treatments. 

The bare bottom tank should make it easy to clean up leftover food, and check for bowel movements. I would try feeding live baby brine, as they are incredibly nutrient dense and almost impossible for fish to resist.

If he doesn't eat those, I would [personally] get more aggressive with treatment and treat for parasites, following the directions closely. 

The reason I am wondering about the wasting disease is the length of time between deaths and you can't identify any cause. I don't know enough about it, you can Google *peer-reviewed* + *guppy wasting disease* and find pictures and explanations that are not anecdotal stories if you want accurate information. 

Welcome to the Forum, awesome tanks!

 

[zelibeli]

Thanks all. Sadly guppy guy #3 passed sometime in the night.

 

[Torrey]

@zelibeli I am so sorry. You did everything you could, and I am sure the guppies are grateful for your care.

Here are the resources I was able to find for you, so you can make fully informed decisions on where to go from here.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/livebearer-disease

https://dianawalstad.com/2018/04/14/flukes-and-sick-guppies/

Cory and Diana have been the most comprehensive in explaining the risks with livebearers.

Because fish are being used in research, there are multiple papers on disease and how to control disease spread. I have used the following paper to establish better care for both my zebra danios and my guppies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3270489/

Again, I am sorry for your loss. I hope you stay with the hobby, and find some answers so you can exceed your aquarist goals.

[zelibeli]

@TorreyThanks so much for the info. I'm new to guppies, so it's good to gain all the knowledge I can.

The other 2 office guppy guys are still fine. They're behaving normally and eating well. Water parameters are good. I used a test strip this morning and it continues to be fine. Tomorrow is water change/cleaning day for this tank so I'll get more in the weeds with checking things out.

My guppy girls (at home) are doing fine too. I have them in 10 gallons of water in a very large tote. Unfortunately, the tote is in front of my bookshelf and I worry about moisture damage to my book collection, so they'll be moving into a more permanent winter home this weekend. 

I have a new shelf built but I'm waiting for some vinyl shelf covers to arrive to set things up. I saw an old Aquarium Co Op video of a fish room tour where someone was using similar shelving so I'm fairly confident that this will work out. The patio pond guppies will go into a 20 gallon long for the remainder of the cold season. 

I had also ordered some foam board to place down on the rack shelving but after watching the Aquarium CoOp vid a again, I noticed Cory said that foam board shouldn't be placed under glass aquariums so I'm going to trust that wisdom. The person in the video wasn't using foam under his tanks and he didn't seem to be having any trouble. This will be a fairly bare holding tank at least until the guppies return to the patio pond in the spring. I might decide to aquascape it at that point but for now I'm excited to get this set up and get my guppy girls out of the tote. 

My guppy girls are 3 assorted guppy females I bought at PetSmart in July or August of last summer. I had bought 6, but only 4 came out of the patio pond in the fall. Since I only populated the "pond" with female guppies, I didn't have any breeding happen there. I had bred these 4 ladies with my red & gold tuxedo guppy males before moving them to the office tank. One died giving birth in December, so now I'm down to 3. The fry haven't started to color up yet, but I'll post pics when they mature a bit. I have 9 that survived so far. I was interested in colony breeding but their moms were very into eating all the babies they could so I decided to separate them for a few weeks. 

My 3 week old guppy fry are in my cherry shrimp tank. I might let them grow a bit more before putting them in a tank with their moms just to assure that they don't end up as snacks. If all goes well, I should have a nice population to start my patio pond off with in the spring. If this goes well, I might invest in a fancier guppy, like flamingos or something, for future guppy keeping. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by zelibeli

[Torrey]

Guppies are funny fish parents. The most successful way I have found to make breeding both successful **and** least stressful, is to really pack the upper ⅓ of the tank with plants. I have floated pearlweed, milfoil, water sprite, and other plants to give fry hiding spaces. Once there are sufficient fry hiding and surviving in the plants, we hit critical mass in the tank, and fry are no longer getting eaten. 

It probably helps that my breeding tanks for my endlers, and the guppy breeding tank, all have enough plants that I can seriously overfeed the fish to reduce cannibalism, and the water stays at 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrates, and under 20 ppm nitrates because my plants are even bigger hogs than my fish😁

[zelibeli]

I need to journal better. I now have had 3 batches of guppy fry from one spawning(?). Guppies apparently stay preggo forever. I'm trying to get the males out to their own tank as soon as I can tell genders, but I'm new to this and I don't have the best eyesight. The babies and moms are able to hang out in the same tank now without noticeable loss. All the fish at home now have 20 gallon long tanks. I really like how accessible they are for me. I had intended on using dividers for my bettas and I spent a few bucks on them, but all the fish decided that was not going to work for them. All three betta ladies are now in their own tanks, with tankmates that they tolerate. They did not tolerate each other at all, even with solid black dividers. I have 3 tanks with groups of panda corydoras from fry that grew up. I'm starting to notice new fry in the cherry shrimp tank. I got a new log for one of the tanks (you can probably tell from the water color). I got air stones installed on all 5 tanks and I'm adjusting to the new noise from that. I have 3 running off of the new Aquarium Co-Op air pump and the other 2 are running off of the mini USB air pump. I zip-tied/organized all of my cords and air tubes. Now I have a couple of weeks before I can get on with the next phase of tank upgrades. The hair algae in with my java moss will keep me busy, I'm sure. I want to paint the backgrounds black and redo the substrate (it's not thick enough), but it will be easier to do those things when I can get outside. I'm still in snowy days around here. That's fine though. The plants need time to just grow.