Guppies Eating My Algae Crew

[LisaBoBisa]

I need some serious help with this new 30 gal. tank I inherited from my sister-in-law before she moved. 
 

It began as a goldfish tank, but is now only guppies. We still have the goldfish (Buckets) but had to buy a new tank for him because the guppies started eating him alive when I stopped feeding them to try and get them to eat on the algae. Next the guppies killed the mystery snail and stressed two zebra niriates enough to make them go belly up. Luckily they where alive when I found them and are living peacefully with Buckets.
 

I want to get more algae eaters but am scared they will get eaten too.
 

Here is what I am doing:

-There is one olive niriate that is doing great in there along with a ton of bladder snails working overtime on the problem.

-I dose Easy Carbon as recommended every other day

-I turned the lights down to 8hrs a day from the 12 it was at.

-I stopped feeding them, they seem more interested in eating ANYTHING besides algae including the weak ones.

 

It has been over a month doing this and it is worse! I do have the other 30 gal, with the goldfish, should I swap the guppies and the gold fish and add the algae team that way?

 

I’ve included pics of both.
 

Thank you for any advice ❤️

 

 

 

 

 

[Odd Duck]

On 10/11/2021 at 2:00 AM, LisaBoBisa said:

-I stopped feeding them, they seem more interested in eating ANYTHING besides algae including the weak ones.

I would feed, but lightly, and turn the lights down to 6 hours per day.  You can do a siesta mid day and have the lights on in the morning and the evening if that makes your life easier.  It’s also somewhat debatable, but a mid day siesta with the lights off may be helpful for plants.

How often are you doing water changes and how much?  What are your water parameters?

[gardenman]

Guppies aren't really algae eaters. What you're trying to do is like not feeding a teen-aged boy so he'll go out and chew on the grass so you don't have to mow your lawn. It just won't work. Starving fish in a glass box to try and force them to eat something they don't want to, and really can't eat is not the ideal solution. Feed the guppies and feed them a lot. As for the algae, I've found ramshorn snails to be the most effective algae eaters. Any snail you put in with starving guppies though will be viewed as food by them as it's protein and guppies need protein. You'll have to feed the guppies or they'll eat anything else you put in with them. Feed the guppies, plop in a few ramshorn snails (you won't need many as they'll reproduce rapidly for you) and your algae issues will go away. 

[Guppysnail]

My guppies tear up algae but not necessarily for eating. They tear it up because I do my best to encourage a healthy microfauna population that lives in the algae. It then appears they are consuming algae but are just disturbing it enough that it does not thrive and possibly consuming a small amount. I keep excellent water quality through maintenance by feeding generously in smaller quantities allowing enough food for microfauna. (This is how I do it not some scientific method I know about). Figuring out your imbalance causing your algae is the solution. Adding more algae eaters will only increase your bioload causing more algae. So even them eating the existing algae is not going to solve your problem but most likely exacerbate it. 

[lefty o]

i agree with the others. you have to feed the guppy's. they might pick at micro organisms in/on the algae, but no matter how much you starve them, they are not going to eat algae. if you feed them, they are pretty peaceful easy to get along with fish. get the guppy's back on a regular diet, then you can add nerite snails, amano shrimp, pandagarra etc, and they wont be messed with.

[Patrick_G]

It also looks like you’ve got too many guppies in there. I stopped counting at 70, but there might be 80-100 adults. It’s probably ok for an experienced guppy breeder who’s doing lots of water changes but it’ll continue to be difficult if you’re goal is just to have a nice display tank. 
What are your Nitrate levels before a water change?

[LisaBoBisa]

Thank you all for your advise. 

I have stared feeding the guppies lightly as repeatedly recommended, I am doing a light feeding twice a day but they are still attacking snails so it doesn’t seem to be quelling their taste for blood. 

I did change my light timer to six hours a day.

To answer the following folks:

On 10/11/2021 at 5:46 AM, Odd Duck said:

How often are you doing water changes and how much?  What are your water parameters?

I change my water when my perimeters tell me to. I really am in this aquarium hobby for the plants so, currently, I check the perimeters once every ten days and change if needed based off the readings. But to be honest I have had issues with the nitrates in this tank.

On 10/11/2021 at 11:07 AM, Patrick_G said:

It also looks like you’ve got too many guppies in there. I stopped counting at 70, but there might be 80-100 adults. It’s probably ok for an experienced guppy breeder who’s doing lots of water changes but it’ll continue to be difficult if you’re goal is just to have a nice display tank. 
What are your Nitrate levels before a water change?

I took this tank from my sister because she was moving across the country and it was packed full of algae ridden plants that I wanted. I thought I could ploop a few snails in and fix it but no, the guppies went all serial killer. I know there are too many guppies which is why I test it more often then my other tanks but it’s cycling other then the nitrate that hasn’t been an issue with other planted tanks.

My water perimeters before a water change are:

pH 8.3

ammonia 0 

nitrite 0

nitrate 40ppm

I also know nitrates can be in tap water. I have just moved into a new home and my well water test to 0ppm nitrates with api test kit. My other two tanks are cycled so the plants help use up enough of the nitrates in between water changes but this tank I could do 50% water change and the nitrates stays at 40ppm.

Here is a picture of my water from the tank this evening:

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by LisaBoBisa

[LisaBoBisa]

On 10/11/2021 at 6:31 AM, gardenman said:

Guppies aren't really algae eaters. What you're trying to do is like not feeding a teen-aged boy so he'll go out and chew on the grass so you don't have to mow your lawn. It just won't work. Starving fish in a glass box to try and force them to eat something they don't want to, and really can't eat is not the ideal solution. Feed the guppies and feed them a lot. As for the algae, I've found ramshorn snails to be the most effective algae eaters. Any snail you put in with starving guppies though will be viewed as food by them as it's protein and guppies need protein. You'll have to feed the guppies or they'll eat anything else you put in with them. Feed the guppies, plop in a few ramshorn snails (you won't need many as they'll reproduce rapidly for you) and your algae issues will go away. 

Currently there are bladder snails and one nerite snail that can handle the New York of guppy tanks. Two dropped out from stress after the first month but the third dug in and insisted on staying in the tank. The guppies killed the mystery snail. Ramshorn are awesome but unless I’m buying online I don’t have a store near me that sell them.  Thanks for your very colorful response, what a fun read, but not very good advise for me really. I know the guppies need protein however I don’t need more guppies. I’m sure you’re aware that fish can survive on grass just as your teenager would, they may also go Lord of the Flies forced on a salad diet. That is clearly my issue, and while I would love to add more bio-load I’m going to try some other folks advice instead. But yea, go ramshorn snails and thanks again for the advice.

[Odd Duck]

You do have a very significant bioload in this tank.  I suspect the number of guppies is causing the majority of your issues - excess nitrates and the “attacking and eating anything they can get” issue.

Have you considered selling some to your local fish store (lfs)?  This would significantly reduce bioload and reduce foraging pressure immediately.  I’d recommend you sell about 1/2 the guppies (or more) - save the best to continue breeding and cull any bad ones into a separate tank.  Don’t take the less than perfect ones to the lfs or they may not want to buy the next batch).

Edited October 13, 2021 by Odd Duck
Clarification.

[Patrick_G]

On 10/12/2021 at 11:40 PM, LisaBoBisa said:

Here is a picture of my water from the tank this evening:

Looks like you are in good shape! 

[Torrey]

On 10/13/2021 at 12:40 AM, LisaBoBisa said:

Thank you all for your advise. 

I have stared feeding the guppies lightly as repeatedly recommended, I am doing a light feeding twice a day but they are still attacking snails so it doesn’t seem to be quelling their taste for blood. 

I did change my light timer to six hours a day.

To answer the following folks:

I change my water when my perimeters tell me to. I really am in this aquarium hobby for the plants so, currently, I check the perimeters once every ten days and change if needed based off the readings. But to be honest I have had issues with the nitrates in this tank.

I took this tank from my sister because she was moving across the country and it was packed full of algae ridden plants that I wanted. I thought I could ploop a few snails in and fix it but no, the guppies went all serial killer. I know there are too many guppies which is why I test it more often then my other tanks but it’s cycling other then the nitrate that hasn’t been an issue with other planted tanks.

My water perimeters before a water change are:

pH 8.3

ammonia 0 

nitrite 0

nitrate 40ppm

I also know nitrates can be in tap water. I have just moved into a new home and my well water test to 0ppm nitrates with api test kit. My other two tanks are cycled so the plants help use up enough of the nitrates in between water changes but this tank I could do 50% water change and the nitrates stays at 40ppm.

Here is a picture of my water from the tank this evening:

 

All my caps leak, I am envious of how easily you can stand your vials!

As for your guppies, they can have inbreeding that changes personality (think War of the Roses in the monarchy) just as much as environment changes personality. 

I have one turtle pond that the nitrates fluctuate between 20 ppm and 80 ppm, and have gotten as high as 120 ppm when the turtle decided it wanted salad.🤷‍♂️

I found the information on the aquariumscience.org site (has links to a lot of the studies) to be pretty reassuring. 

That being said, pond snails and bladder snails are far more forgiving of water parameters than nerites, MTS, or mystery snails. Just an FYI for the information you have shared so far.

My endlers will eat algae in addition to amphopods, black worms, and Xtreme foods, as well as BugBites. I have observed them ripping out algae (staghorn and blackbeard, if I treat it with H2O2 first, and no treatment required for hair algae) and then swimming away from other fish while gobbling down the algae. 

My eyesight is deteriorating, so they could be eating microfauna and the algae is an acceptable part of the meal.

 

That being said, the nerites wipe it out faster.

What happens if you increase feeding to 3 to 4x a day? Do they ever get full and content?

If not, I would remove the adult females. They will set the temperament in the tank, and if they are murderers, everyone else will follow their example. 

Another possibility for reducing nitrates is floating plants, or pothos, to eat the nitrates while you look for balance in the tank.

Final possibility is rehoming all the adult guppies you can catch, and see if more frequent, small feedings allow the snail algae eating crew a chance to survive. 

As the baby guppies grow, they will have the space, the food, and the water parameters to stop neurotically murdering your snails. 

[LisaBoBisa]

On 10/15/2021 at 8:25 PM, Torrey said:

All my caps leak, I am envious of how easily you can stand your vials!

As for your guppies, they can have inbreeding that changes personality (think War of the Roses in the monarchy) just as much as environment changes personality. …

. 

Super interesting post, really appreciate you giving me your tips! Many of which I have not heard, very, very helpful-thank you for the thought candy!