New 3 gallon Nano (pico) tank

[GameCzar]

Kind of a continuation of my nano tank recommendation thread, here's what we have going on Day 1:

Fluval Shrimp and Plant Substrate

Dwarf Lily Bulb 

Java Moss patch we stitched to a plastic mesh on the back wall.

Water has been added gently (its still rather filthy).

I have a couple of questions for the vets:

1)  I put a root tab in the substrate under the bulb, should I also give it EZ-green?

2)  Is there a particular food that is useful for "Ghost Feeding" to get the tank cycling, or should I just use what I have that is the cheapest?

3)  We plan on stocking shrimp (Caridina variety, not cherries), but we would like some nano fish ideas.   We don't really want to go with another betta, we were originally going with Zebra Danios (to go with Tangerine Tiger shrimp for a Safari theme) but my fear is they need more room to swim.   We've considered Celestial Pearl Danios so far, but I'm open to any suggestions.

Thanks for all the help, and I'll update the thread as this tank comes together.
 

[Fish Folk]

For a slow, calm fish, you should look into Least Killifish (Heterandria formosa). Plant it up. They're a temperate tank -- no separate heater necessarily needed. Look for them snuck in batches of feeder guppies at your LFS. They'll hang out around structure, sponges, etc in the feeder tank.

I've also been really enjoying watching a group of Glowlight Pygmy Barbs we got (Horadandia atukorali). I think a few could work if you planted it up. Pretty active.

 

 

[GameCzar]

Quote

For a slow, calm fish, you should look into Least Killifish (Heterandria formosa). Plant it up. They're a temperate tank -- no separate heater necessarily needed.

I love the idea of low heat aquarium since the shrimps are going to be good with that too!   These are cute buggers, hard to find?

Also, are these like the regular killi's that die off yearly?

Edited June 10, 2021 by GameCzar
Another question

[Fish Folk]

58 minutes ago, GameCzar said:

I love the idea of low heat aquarium since the shrimps are going to be good with that too!   These are cute buggers, hard to find?

Also, are these like the regular killi's that die off yearly?

I think the least lilies are raft to find. Pretty prolific, so even if they die off, should be making more...

[GameCzar]

Would 3 gallons be too small for white clouds?

[Fish Folk]

10 minutes ago, GameCzar said:

Would 3 gallons be too small for white clouds?

It’s doable. Maybe a pair or trio. But allow me to forward the thought of working on a larger tank volume. You can find tanks that are quite diverse in size, shape, material, rim / rimless... basically, anything less than a 20 gal. is prone to certain common challenges. 

[GameCzar]

4 minutes ago, Fish Folk said:

It’s doable. Maybe a pair or trio. But allow me to forward the thought of working on a larger tank volume. You can find tanks that are quite diverse in size, shape, material, rim / rimless... basically, anything less than a 20 gal. is prone to certain common challenges. 

Absolutely, and I've found that many people won't even give many suggestions for such a small tank so I appreciate yours.

We live in a tiny efficiency apartment with very limited space, so I probably could have originally planned for a 10 or even 20 gallon, but it would have had to be my only project and I'm enjoying trying different ideas.   

You've been one of the few to offer suggestions to me so far on any outlets, so thank you for that.   I have had a lot of people suggest bettas and snails, but those projects we already have!

[Patrick_G]

You could probably fit two Pygmy Corydoras and two Male Endlers or Small killifish. 
 

[GameCzar]

Would the endler's pair well with shrimp?

[Patrick_G]

7 minutes ago, GameCzar said:

Would the endler's pair well with shrimp?

I think they’ll be fine with the adults, but might eat the shrimplets. Give them lots of cover, like your Java moss and they have a chance. 

[NanoNano]

Similar situation to you @GameCzar- apartment dweller without a lot of space or easy way to transport large quantities of water as well so I have a bunch of 3 gallon Betta tanks scattered in various rooms.  My thoughts and ideas:

* Really good selection and start with the Fluval stratum.  Small tanks simply don't have enough surface area for the needed size colony of nitrifying bacteria without some additional help from an active substrate.  Adding some more porous features (stone or wood) to the tank for bacteria to grown on would be helpful for the bacteria colony (and shrimp to feed off of) as well.  

* Live plants go along way to helping stabilize water parameters in small tanks.  I think you mentioned in another thread that you have plans.  I like Amazon Sword and Cryptocoryne Retrosprialis as root feeding background plants- they grow quickly so they absorb a lot of nitrates and excess nutrients from the tank.  They're also easy to trim and grow back quickly if cut things a little too aggressively or lopsided.  For foreground plants I like Anubis nana petite which can often be found at chains already mounted to porous stone as "Betta Buddies".  There's some compact species of Crypts (Lutea?) that work well for foreground plants as well.

* Watch the strength of your light in a bare tank- Floaters like Amazon Frogbit might help short term to help diffuse the light and absorb nitrates as you cycle your tank.

* I dont have much experience with the sponge filter that you have.  I have successfully kept small tanks with small filters (Top Fins),  but I've needed to clean the sponge often and I had lots of porous features in the tank to assist.  Watch your filtration effectiveness with a critical eye and don't be afraid to make a change to a HOB here if need be.

* Consider adding snails - a burrowing species would be best as they will aerate the substrate and help the beneficial bacteria colony.

* The challenge that you're going to have with multiple fish in the tank is "air traffic control"- you'll have a lot of activity in a very confined space,  so some sort of schooling fish that will "follow the leader" will work better than independent fish zig zagging all over.  Remember to plan for the potential of breeding- ideally no breeding would be best with such limited space so having all the same sex might be a plan (assuming the species you select would tolerate that).

* Cardina shrimp prefer a higher PH (7.5-8.0) and are generally more sensitive to changes and stress and harsh language  than Neos.  Edit- See posts that follow. The Fluval substrate tends to lower PH and trap ammonia- both of which can be lethal to shrimp- especially Cardina,  so you want to make sure that your tank is fully cycled and sure that your substrate is no longer trapping or leeching ammonia before adding shrimp.  As with fish plan for the potential of breeding and have a plan for what to do with shrimp lets should you have them.

Hope this help.  Will send more ideas as they come to me.

Edited June 11, 2021 by NanoNano

[GameCzar]

A lot of great info NanoNano, but I'm a bit confused.  I had read that the Fluval was specifically for Caridina and not great for Neos.   So now I wonder if I've screwed up!

Edited June 11, 2021 by GameCzar
spelling is hard

[Patrick_G]

@NanoNano, I could be wrong but I think you might have the parameters for Caridina and Neocaridina backwards. I believe it’s the Caridina that prefer more acidic water. 

[NanoNano]

The good doctor @Patrick_G  is correct on my confusion.  I recently got some Sulawesi snails and my brain and fingers went to Sulawesi Cardinal shrimp (instead of Caridina shrimp) that I wanted to pair with said snails,  but can't as they require the high PH I rambled about.  Obviously way past time for me to go get something to eat.  Apologies.

Edit- Have Neos in tanks with the Fluval stratum and they are breeding like wild fire.  Comments above about needing to let the ammonia and PH settle still apply.  I've had shrimp literally keel over and die as soon as they touched Fluval substrate that was still "too new".

Edited June 11, 2021 by NanoNano

[GameCzar]

17 minutes ago, NanoNano said:

The good doctor @Patrick_G  is correct on my confusion.  I recently got some Sulawesi snails and my brain and fingers went to Sulawesi Cardinal shrimp (instead of Caridina shrimp) that I wanted to pair with said snails,  but can't as they require the high PH I rambled about.  Obviously way past time for me to go get something to eat.  Apologies.

Edit- Have Neos in tanks with the Fluval stratum and they are breeding like wild fire.  Comments above about needing to let the ammonia and PH settle still apply.  I've had shrimp literally keel over and die as soon as they touched Fluval substrate that was still "too new".

No problem, thanks for clearing it up!

[TheCzarista]

Question for the experts:

We have the Fluval Plant and Shrimp Stratum buffering substrate.  We are in the process right now of cycling the tank, and the water parameters are starting to come into line.

One of the things I understand about this substrate is that it makes water softer, and buffers the PH, causing a lower PH.  We usually do water changes with our tap water, which is very hard water.  Would it be better to water change this tank with a bottled water? If we use the hard water from the tap are we wearing out the substrate, and fluctuating our parameters too much?

We have some tangerine tigers coming in soon, and I wanted some clarification before we had to do our first water change.

[Patrick_G]

    Stratum does lower the PH, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t lower the GH. You need RO or distilled water to do that. What I hear over and over is that Shrimp like very stable conditions. This has also been my experience. I’d make sure your water parameters are close to those of the supplier and try not to make to many changes. I seem to have the best luck with very few water changes and the second generation of shrimp in the tank seem much more hardy than the first. 

[GameCzar]

On 6/13/2021 at 7:54 PM, Patrick_G said:

    Stratum does lower the PH, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t lower the GH. You need RO or distilled water to do that. What I hear over and over is that Shrimp like very stable conditions. This has also been my experience. I’d make sure your water parameters are close to those of the supplier and try not to make to many changes. I seem to have the best luck with very few water changes and the second generation of shrimp in the tank seem much more hardy than the first. 

Our source says they were tank raised, so we are trying to match their parameter listings as close as possible.  Hopefully they'll be hearty fellas! 

[GameCzar]

Clearing up nicely!  Parameters have all fallen in line save the ammonia, and that's dropping every day. 

Roots sprouted on the bulb, so it is now turned properly. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by GameCzar

[binkysmom]

Chilli rasboras and shrimp. I find my chillis aren't too active (like danios). So they don't use as much space.

any of the micro rasboras would be fine (exclamation point, strawberry, merah)

[eatyourpeas]

I agree with @Patrick_G, from my experience the GH stays stable with Fluval Stratrum.

[TheCzarista]

We received our fish order today, with mixed results.  We ordered all from the same vendor,  which I amnot going to name because I don't know the forum's policy on that. We ordered 5 CPD and 5 tangerine tigers.  The seller has a live arrival guarantee. 

The CPD all arrived healthy and are just fine.  Of the 5 shrimp,  2 were DOA, and the others are on a drip acclimation.  We contacted the seller about the 2 that were doa, and they offered to replace IF we paid for the overnight shipping costs again.  That seems very shady to me. 

The shrimp were shipped with no mesh in the bag to hold on to.  It had a heat pack in it, which might be normal,  but seemed a little odd since we are in Texas summer and it was very hot outside.  

Maybe I am wrong here,  but it seems to me that a guarantee means you fix your mess up.  You replace your product.  Not.... "I will replace but you will have to pay $50 shipping again".

[GameCzar]

Yeah, paying another 50 bucks to ship 16 dollars with of shrimp that died at no fault of ours seems pretty unethical. 

It's such a small amount that I debated letting it slide as opposed to putting 2 poor shrimp through that process again, but I feel like giving a partial refund would be in order. 

After arguing on the phone with the guy, we're getting our 16 bucks refunded.

Edited June 15, 2021 by GameCzar
Resolved

[Patrick_G]

I started to type something not safe for family, but thought better if it. I’m not sure what standard business procedure is for shipping live fish, but I’d be irritated if this happened to me.  All I can add is that my shrimp supplier adds an extra or two to cover shipping loss. 

[GameCzar]

On 6/15/2021 at 5:31 PM, Patrick_G said:

I started to type something not safe for family, but thought better if it. I’m not sure what standard business procedure is for shipping live fish, but I’d be irritated if this happened to me.  All I can add is that my shrimp supplier adds an extra or two to cover shipping loss. 

This was the first time I ever ordered fish where extra weren't included.   This is partially our fault, I have had great luck with a different supplier but they were out of stock and I never got a reply on when they'd get them back.