Mass die off in son’s guppy tank

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Well this is an unfortunate turn of events. All the guppies in my sons tank died - 1 m 4 f adults, 4 sub adults born a month ago and 4-6 fry. Platinum Galaxy Tigers, gorgeous fish obtained from a reputable source. Son (5) found them dead. I got home from work and fished out the bodies then ran tests and ammonia 2-4 and nitrates 80. Water temp was 78.2. Did a 50% change, added Fritz ACCR a bit more generous than usual water change and added 2 tablespoons of aquarium salt (20 g high). The bodies were fairly intact but had white stringy bits on the tails and other fins  - son held a funeral with his little brother while I was doing water tests so I didn’t get post-mortem pics. The ember tetras in there had it as well but were still alive (9) and Pygmy corys (10) along with a pair of honey gouramis are all still with us. I grabbed a pic of an ember with it. Plan to recheck water tomorrow and repeat water changes. Biggest concern I have is getting to the bottom of the source of this. The two of us are just heart broken this happened. Was debating dropping in some Maracyn but also don’t want to nuke the tank unless I have to. Tank does have a hx of Ich right after it was setup 2-3 months ago treated with Ich-x and salt and 82 degree temp resolved in a matter of 3 days. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I'm going to take a stab at it and say fungal infection? google search yourself images, some of it looks more like cotton balls but some of it looks stringy. Caused by poor water conditions (which sadly you had due to those tests). It also mentions bullying and injuries but I doubt that happened to so many fish. It eats away at fish bodies and can lead to secondary bacterial infections.

Edited April 29, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
to clarify

[Colu]

7 hours ago, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

Well this is an unfortunate turn of events. All the guppies in my sons tank died - 1 m 4 f adults, 4 sub adults born a month ago and 4-6 fry. Platinum Galaxy Tigers, gorgeous fish obtained from a reputable source. Son (5) found them dead. I got home from work and fished out the bodies then ran tests and ammonia 2-4 and nitrates 80. Water temp was 78.2. Did a 50% change, added Fritz ACCR a bit more generous than usual water change and added 2 tablespoons of aquarium salt (20 g high). The bodies were fairly intact but had white stringy bits on the tails and other fins  - son held a funeral with his little brother while I was doing water tests so I didn’t get post-mortem pics. The ember tetras in there had it as well but were still alive (9) and Pygmy corys (10) along with a pair of honey gouramis are all still with us. I grabbed a pic of an ember with it. Plan to recheck water tomorrow and repeat water changes. Biggest concern I have is getting to the bottom of the source of this. The two of us are just heart broken this happened. Was debating dropping in some Maracyn but also don’t want to nuke the tank unless I have to. Tank does have a hx of Ich right after it was setup 2-3 months ago treated with Ich-x and salt and 82 degree temp resolved in a matter of 3 days. 

Looking at ammonia levels it could be ammonia poisoning keep up with your water change add Fritz acct to detoxify the ammonia did any of your fish have black marks on there body or reddening around the the gills

Edited April 29, 2021 by Colu

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Coluno red gills or black just the stringy white areas on multiple fins. Planning another 50% change today and more Fritz. I’ll post pics tonight.

@xXInkedPhoenixXthanks quite possibly fungus brought on by stress. I do 50% water change on this tank weekly as the kiddo likes a heavy stocking list so I’m still thinking either something died and that was rotting and brought on the initial die off and the those bodies brought more ammonia etc. the pair of gourami could be anothe source of stress he could be territorial about a spot thinking he’s making a bubble nest etc. 

Still not sure other than water changes and a little salt if I’m going to dose meds. I imagine what I find tonight will dictate that. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Good luck, let us know what you find!

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Well my ammonia level is down to 0.5 and the nitrates are down to 40. No further deaths and the fish are all alive - ember tetras, pygmy corys and the 2 gourami. Did a 50% gallon after change and added an extra tablespoon of Fritz ACCR and another 2 tablespoons of aquarium salt. 
The white bits on the fins are all gone, nothing on gills I can see. The fish were swimming but not active prior to the water change but swimming exploring the tank afterwards. 
I’m going to just keep going this way. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Crossing my fingers all the other denizens of your son's tank make it through and I hope you find the culprit. Having already mentioned you change water every week do you also test before you do that? Have the levels always been on the higher side?

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Nitrates have been between 20-40 - I’ve always been told as long as it’s very heavily planted those numbers can work and I’ve had some dwarf water lettuce in there to sop up the extra nitrates. The ammonia has never been this high since I put fish in there. The guppies had 2 rounds of fry and have been in there since February with great color and out on tremendous size. It’s well filtered with a medium sponge from the coop and an azoo 60. I guess maybe with the next change I’ll clean the sponge and vacuum under there to make sure nothings dead and hiding back there. Like you said I hope we come out of this understanding what happened. I’ve had mystery illnesses before but I’d rather learn something from the experience. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Well having some experience recently with my Otos breeding water parameters can go all sorts of wonky and IS one of those times that changing water is a requirement or the very least a higher probability. There have been times because of this situation I was doing DAILY partial water changes to reduce liquid test Ammonia levels (a questionable .25 reading) or high Nitrite readings (.25). Now that I have all babies out of the tank (from the floating breeder in the parent tank) and finding very few babies as they are sporadic hatchings the levels are back to zero and I'm not doing daily changes (but out of paranoia I'm testing regularly still). I also run 2 filters (both air driven) but may not be enough in what is in your opinion an overstocked and breeding tank because even in my case it hasn't been enough to let it go for a week when the babies are coming out. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@xXInkedPhoenixXYeah I’ve not skipped any water changes ever with my sons tank for fear that something like this would happen. He’s got some developmental issues so I’ve been scared about how he’d react to his fish dying but he handled it really well. The filtration is a good point, I might just throw another sponge underneath the azoo 60. I definitely believe in redundancy when it comes to filters. I’ve got a 2217 Eheim on my 45 g “show” tank with a Ziss biobubbler. The Eheim has different types of Biohome biomedia and varying coarsenesses of sponges with floss at the top before it goes into the tank. I rarely have one filter on a display planted tank only my breeders have sponges alone. Maybe I just don’t have enough biological filtration for the stock and tank design? I may just try another sponge and see. 

 In my mind anything less than a 29 g are more prone to instability so I’ve been more conscious of parameters. The tank that’s been bulletproof is my younger sons shellies- it’s a 10 g and wife’s letting me get a bigger tank for him. I think the salt and buffers I use for that tank are protective. we’re having discussions about upgrading a Flex in our kitchen area to a larger tank - 32 g cube is my thought now. I just think larger aquariums make stability easier. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Beardedbillygoat1975 TBH my 20 gallon tanks have been very easy to care for once they were established EXCEPT when they became overstocked (in this case with over 50 fish, granted some were very small- nevertheless). But we all have our expertise and fortay on this forum for sure. I've never kept anything larger than a 20 gallon so in the end it's all I know. 

Poor son, I'm glad he took it better than you thought. Sounds like you have an excuse to get him a larger tank I'll pretend my 20 gallons are super hard to keep so you can convince your wife. 🙃

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@xXInkedPhoenixXits a perception thing I think my 10 g Shelly tank is a prime example of being steady eddy and it’s a small tank. My first tank was a 55g so that and every aquarium expert who says bigger is better and more stable and it’s a self fulfilling prophecy to some degree. Although in my 34 years in the hobby I’ve never had the crashes I’ve had with this tank and my bowl recently. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Well I discovered the source - dead mystery snail. I’ve cleaned up, done a 50% water change, extra ACCR and levels were same as yesterday ammonia 0.5 and nitrates between 40 and 80. I’ll do another change tomorrow and see where that lands the parameters. Thanks everyone for your support. I’ve seen the gouramis knocking the mystery snails off the glass wondering if that’s part of the picture. I pulled the other mystery snail and the nerite that was in there. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Beardedbillygoat1975 Well hopefully it's all downhill from here then! So maybe there WAS some bullying going on, just not with the fish, maybe the gourami vs snail? I hear gouramis can be jerks sometimes and mystery snails have those very long antenae that some fish love to pick at. Keep us updated still! (well me anyway, cause I'm selfish like that) 🙃

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@xXInkedPhoenixXi’ll keep updating. This pair of gouramis have been somewhat problematic in the past. I’m seriously thinking about putting them in an outdoor pond this summer all by themselves. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Well we lost 3 dwarf corys and 1 ember tetra. Idid a thorough clean of substrate pulled anything that could hide a body. Looks like I’m not out of the woods. Ammonia still 0.25-0.5, nitrates 40. Ughh. The embers had that white stringy stuff again. I’m going to hold on salt and see if the white bits come off by tonight. If they do I’ll hold the salt if not I’ll dose salt. Problem is the plants are now dying and the leaf litter may be making my parameters worse. 

[Colu]

It could be parasites with the white stringy stuff you describe I would treat with paracleanse or general cure

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Ugh!!! So sorry. I still feel like it's fungus. The only whit stringy stuff I saw when researching was about poop and that was a parasite. 

I love me some Seachem ParaGuard, it does parasites and fungal. As with fish stuff one can lead to another...

Edited May 3, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[laritheloud]

17 minutes ago, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Ugh!!! So sorry. I still feel like it's fungus. The only whit stringy stuff I saw when researching was about poop and that was a parasite. 

I love me some Seachem ParaGuard, it does parasites and fungal. As with fish stuff one can lead to another...

I tried to do a google search on it, too, and there was some discussion that this kind of white stringy stuff could be over-production of slime coat in response to some sort of injury. Either physical or internal (with parasites). You can try a parasite treatment like General Cure or Paracleanse and if there's no response I'd move on to antibiotics. I'm so sorry this is happening, I would be incredibly stressed out and anxious. It's tough when it's all guesswork like this.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@laritheloud that's an interesting theory that didn't come up on my searches but makes sense for sure. Something is definitely going on with this tank and that would be a logical reaction for their immune system to have. it's interesting that it has come and gone. Is the slime coat coming off like when we have colds and are a little snotty? 

[laritheloud]

7 hours ago, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@laritheloud that's an interesting theory that didn't come up on my searches but makes sense for sure. Something is definitely going on with this tank and that would be a logical reaction for their immune system to have. it's interesting that it has come and gone. Is the slime coat coming off like when we have colds and are a little snotty? 

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/help-white-stringy-stuff-on-oscar-and-jag.717052/ 

This is the one place where I found it. Take it with a grain of salt because I'm not highly experienced, and I'm not a vet! I just thought the stringy stuff on this oscar resembled the stringy white stuff in the photos of OP's ember tetra.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I’ve got the paracleanse so I guess some ACCR and see what happens. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Lost one cory this afternoon. No other casualties. Would you just keep adding a dose of ACCR daily? I’ve got a lot of dead or dying plants imagine the salt and now meds are not helping I guess I should just trim and pull detritus out as I can. Based on directions It’s dose again Wednesday then water change Friday. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Beardedbillygoat1975 did you inspect the cory? Any clues as to what's going on? How about water test?

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Ammonia hanging out at 0.25 prior to meds and ACCR, cory was intact, no red on gills, no mucous or white slime like on the embers. Embers could see some Faint traces of white. Did not check the nitrates. I’ll check tomorrow. I’m going to get in there and trim anything that remotely looks dead or dying from plants tomorrow. I just feel like I’ve had equipment in there so much they have to be really stressed but I’ll do what I have to.