Angelfish in Hard Water...or a different Centerpiece fish?

[KaitieG]

Well, I'm in a conundrum and have a controversial question:

I have hard water (Ph 8.2, Gh 300, kh 250).  I have been setting up a new 95 gallon tank mostly for livebearers, which I enjoy and are well matched for my hard water.  So far so good.  Now the controversial part: I'd really like to add a single angelfish for a few reasons:

1. I have always wanted an angelfish--I think they're beautiful

2. Its large size will look good in the large tank--right now everything seems a little "undersized" and I think having a larger fish will make the proportions look more balanced

3. It seems like they're a good option for fry control without being too likely to attack my adult livebearers.

Now, I am well aware that angelfish are supposed to be kept in soft, acidic water.  That's obviously the complete opposite of what I have.  So, I've gotten multiple opposing views from my LFS (Ph/hardness aren't important vs. Ph/hardness are super important long term) and from what I've read online about the "okay-ness" of keeping angels in hard water, knowing that it's less than ideal for their physiology.  I don't want to be a fish torturer--they're living creatures who deserve to be well cared for. 

So, this is a pretty research/experience based group--what's your take on angels in hard water?

Oh, forgot to add...if it's a "no" for you--have another recommendation for me instead?  

Edited March 18, 2021 by KaitieG

[Brian]

Have you any local pet shops keeping them?   Do they have the same water parameters?  Sometimes water ph and hardness doesn’t matter to the fish as much as the stability of the water.  Also I have kept soft water fish (Discus) in harder water.  But for viable eggs I needed to use soft water.   
Good Luck 

[Chiclid addict]

3 hours ago, KaitieG said:

Well, I'm in a conundrum and have a controversial question:

I have hard water (Ph 8.2, Gh 300, kh 250).  I have been setting up a new 95 gallon tank mostly for livebearers, which I enjoy and are well matched for my hard water.  So far so good.  Now the controversial part: I'd really like to add a single angelfish for a few reasons:

1. I have always wanted an angelfish--I think they're beautiful

2. Its large size will look good in the large tank--right now everything seems a little "undersized" and I think having a larger fish will make the proportions look more balanced

3. It seems like they're a good option for fry control without being too likely to attack my adult livebearers.

Now, I am well aware that angelfish are supposed to be kept in soft, acidic water.  That's obviously the complete opposite of what I have.  So, I've gotten multiple opposing views from my LFS (Ph/hardness aren't important vs. Ph/hardness are super important long term) and from what I've read online about the "okay-ness" of keeping angels in hard water, knowing that it's less than ideal for their physiology.  I don't want to be a fish torturer--they're living creatures who deserve to be well cared for. 

So, this is a pretty research/experience based group--what's your take on angels in hard water?

Oh, forgot to add...if it's a "no" for you--have another recommendation for me instead?  

I have liquid rock coming out of my taps and I have kept angelfish just fine for years I have kept many soft water fish like discus just fine in fact I keep more soft water fish than hard water fish with no ill effects 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Angelfishlover

[KaitieG]

32 minutes ago, Brian said:

Have you any local pet shops keeping them?   Do they have the same water parameters?  Sometimes water ph and hardness doesn’t matter to the fish as much as the stability of the water.  Also I have kept soft water fish (Discus) in harder water.  But for viable eggs I needed to use soft water.   
Good Luck 

Yes, and that's where I've gotten the conflicting local advice 🙂 :

Person #1 who I spoke with about 4 months ago when I was planning the tank and wondering about needing deal with RO water, etc. said "Don't worry about hardness/ph--they're pretty adaptable and especially if you get them from us or somewhere locally, they'll do just fine."

Person #2 who I spoke with today at the same store when I decided to call in and order my fish (they only do curbside pickup) said "Long term, you need to soften your water for angelfish.  They're not made to live in hard water, even if they're tank bred and it will shorten their lifespan."  She strongly discouraged me from keeping one in my water.  

I really don't want to do the equivalent of keeping a goldfish in a bowl or something like that that ends up hurting the fish.  But if I have a reasonable chance of providing a pleasant life in my water conditions, I'd love to keep one.

I'm not looking to breed them at all--I'd like to get ONE, which from what I've been reading anyway should curb territorial aggressiveness, etc..  

 

[KaitieG]

42 minutes ago, Angelfishlover said:

I have liquid rock coming out of my taps and I have kept angelfish just fine for years I have kept many soft water fish like discus just fine in fact I keep more soft water fish than hard water fish with no ill effects 

That's what I WANT to hear...thanks 🙂  I'm still open to 2nd (and 3rd) opinions though! 🙂 

[ChefConfit]

I've only had mine for a few months, but my Gh is about 309 in that tank and it's doing fine. I have a ton of crushed coral in the substrate of that tank that I will probably remove next time I rescape it because it's now only housing south American species that generally prefer softer water, but I've had corys breed in this tank as it is now and all my fish seem happy and healthy. 

[1moretank]

@KaitieG I have 2 angelfish i 2 separate tanks, bought one dime sized 4-5 years ago, bought he 2nd one about 50cent piece size about 4 years ago.   Bought from soft water, lived in soft water for about 2 years, then moved to hard water, 2 years later both angels still seem fine in their respective planted stable tanks.  IMO maintaining clean stable environment is more important than hard or soft if you are not trying to breed.  Good luck.

Edited March 19, 2021 by 1moretank

[Maggie]

I agree with @1moretankin keeping stability. Many very experienced fishkeepers on here suggest that stability is much more important than chasing water parameters, and you can read their experiences with success in this regard. Also, adding chemicals and constantly testing and worrying can be highly stressful on the fish and on you as the fishkeeper, and that's not good either. You don't want to burn out on the hobby, especially if you lose them after trying so hard to make them comfortable. If you decide on angels, please post pics and keep us informed on their progress! I'm picking up my first angelfish this weekend and can't wait!

[KaitieG]

57 minutes ago, Maggie said:

I agree with @1moretankin keeping stability. Many very experienced fishkeepers on here suggest that stability is much more important than chasing water parameters, and you can read their experiences with success in this regard. Also, adding chemicals and constantly testing and worrying can be highly stressful on the fish and on you as the fishkeeper, and that's not good either. You don't want to burn out on the hobby, especially if you lose them after trying so hard to make them comfortable. If you decide on angels, please post pics and keep us informed on their progress! I'm picking up my first angelfish this weekend and can't wait!

Thanks!  That was the pretty consistent response when I posted my original stocking plan.  After that phone call yesterday I was feeling very discouraged and like I was planning to do something "bad."  So, I do think I'll be going with an angelfish that's been tank bred and hopefully raised in at least semi-hard water.  Even a lot of the angelfish buy-direct from the breeder sites say that they'll adapt readily and that RO isn't needed, so I guess I'm going to give it a try.

[Andy's Fish Den]

I have been keeping and breeding angelfish for years, and have always had water similar to yours. In fact, my water parameters now match yours pretty close, my pH is a little lower, around 7.8-8.0, but KH and GH are similar. I have angels that are over 10 years old, and doing fine, and I even keep wild angelfish and discus in straight tap water. the only time I use RO water for them is when I first get them, and the acclimate them over a month or so to my tap water and when I am trying to get them to spawn. Unless you are buying wild angels or maybe even F1 with wild parents, the angels now are so domesticated, they will live and spawn in most water conditions as long as they are stable. I would say to buy from a local store, because they probably have water parameters similar to yours, and go for it. they can definitely become little wet pets for you, will recognize you coming near tank and practically beg for food.