Fish Folk Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Something about black worms and peer pressure... got 2x pairs of Rams gettin’ in the mood. These are 2nd gen born & raised in our water. Goodness what a haul if these work out. If we pull, probably just batch them all together. Substrate spawn pulling... *ugh* not my favorite... 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi_Aquatics Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Cool! Hope it works out for you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 One batch pulled! Deed is done... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 Add 1/2 ml. 3% H2O2 for 1/2 gal — dose again 12 hours later, and then 24 hrs later — 3x total. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 Now a third pair of Rams in spawning mode. 4 days of black worms. BOOM!!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 11 hours ago, Fish Folk said: Something about black worms and peer pressure... got 2x pairs of Rams gettin’ in the mood. These are 2nd gen born & raised in our water. Goodness what a haul if these work out. If we pull, probably just batch them all together. Substrate spawn pulling... *ugh* not my favorite... And the moon is waning gibbous. 🙂 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 10 minutes ago, Daniel said: And the moon is waning gibbous. 🙂 🤣🤣🤣 but soooo close.... I think it’s feeding black worms plus pheromones trigger others of the same species. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Yeah, I would put my money on blackworms over a full moon any day. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Daniel said: Yeah, I would put my money on blackworms over a full moon any day. We only bought 1/2 lb. Black worms are going to be gone in less than a week’s time. Keeping in fridge with daily water wash out / water change seems to work. Too much water, and they drown, it seems. Too warm, and they rot. No change, and the water putrefies. Some Russian commented on our YouTube channel that black worms carry loads of diseases, and should not be fed unless kept for 2x weeks beforehand with regular water changes. I’d wince to know where he orders his from... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 Ram eggs pulled Monday night from Substrate spawn are beginning to wiggle. Here's a 45 second video. Always thrilling! With Rams, it's terribly hard to predict how things will go. They are really fragile fish from the get-go. You've got to be really attentive. Last substrate spawn ended up yielding only five free swimming fry, and of those, only one has survived. I'm guessing we've got between 25-40 fertile eggs here. If we end up with 10 that make it, we'll do a happy dance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi_Aquatics Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Looking good @Fish Folk how do you collect the eggs from the substrate? Also where did you get those blackworms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 @Levi_Aquatics gently picked them up with a serving spoon (Mom doesn’t need to know). Black worms we just ordered through our LFS. He ships in from California. They over-night everything. We ordered 1/2 lb. Finished feeding them all tonight. Maintinence for the worms involves refrigeration and daily rinsing in cool water. They do not like too much water. We used a sterilite plastic storage container about the size of a shoe box. Put the worms in as they arrive from CA. Add 16 oz of tank water from cold Goodeid tank, and then pour 16 oz out right away into disposal (sink / toilet). Repeat until run off is not cloudy. Then add about 100 ml more tank water on top. You want it so worms can be “moist” but not drown. They need access to air above water. Keep in fridge. Etc... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_Obermiller Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 On 2/2/2021 at 7:30 AM, Fish Folk said: We only bought 1/2 lb. Black worms are going to be gone in less than a week’s time. Keeping in fridge with daily water wash out / water change seems to work. Too much water, and they drown, it seems. Too warm, and they rot. No change, and the water putrefies. Some Russian commented on our YouTube channel that black worms carry loads of diseases, and should not be fed unless kept for 2x weeks beforehand with regular water changes. I’d wince to know where he orders his from... What size tank is that and where do you get your black worms? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 Just now, Paul_Obermiller said: What size tank is that and where do you get your black worms? The tank that they spawned in is a 55 gal. It's pretty overstocked right now. The Geophagus Heckelii are WHALES in there. We're trying to wind down a bunch of smaller tanks, and got with a 75 or 125 gal for them. The Rams get on just fine with the Discus. Thing is, if they spawn, either the eggs get eaten by bristle nose plecos, or the fry get nabbed by tank mates. Black worms -- here's a copy of my reply to Levi_Aquatics: Black worms we just ordered through our LFS. He ships in from California. They over-night everything. We ordered 1/2 lb. Finished feeding them all tonight. Maintinence for the worms involves refrigeration and daily rinsing in cool water. They do not like too much water. We used a sterilite plastic storage container about the size of a shoe box. Put the worms in as they arrive from CA. Add 16 oz of tank water from cold Goodeid tank, and then pour 16 oz out right away into disposal (sink / toilet). Repeat until run off is not cloudy. Then add about 100 ml more tank water on top. You want it so worms can be “moist” but not drown. They need access to air above water. Keep in fridge. Etc... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_Obermiller Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 What kind of black-ish blue discus is that? That discus is absolutely beautiful. I love Deans blue green peru's but I love discus with black and blue coloration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Paul_Obermiller said: What kind of black-ish blue discus is that? That discus is absolutely beautiful. I love Deans blue green peru's but I love discus with black and blue coloration. Well . . . I'm not sure exactly, but he went through a bout of sickness, and went dark after that. He had popeye . . . we worked him through it . . . but then he seemed to have some eye damage in one eye from it (almost looks like a cataract). Bottom line, Discus sometimes darken up when they're stressed. He seems to have gone dark and stayed that way following his bout of sickness. Here's how he looked when we first got him (I have no idea what "kind" he is) . . . Edited February 4, 2021 by Fish Folk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 Here’s a quick video of the substrate spawned Ram wigglers in that awkward stage before free swimming. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Rams pulled from substrate now free-swimming. Short video update. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 As an interesting close to this thread, only 1x of all these Ram fry survived. I could speculate... but honestly, not exactly sure what happened. This one comes from the blue side of the 2nd generation Electric Blue crossed with Gold. (So: Blue Male x Gold Female... yield Gold-Blue Opal and Blue-Gold Opal... cross Blue-Gold Opal to get E-Blue Male and Iridescent Opal Female... cross them and get this fella) Notice the Green crossing coming out. Genetics are poor (one ventral fin not developed— same problem parents had) but it shows how variable this color form could be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Have you thought about doing a photo family tree, with representatives of all the fish you have crossed and the outcome? I am really interested in this cross, I assumed if I crossed "regular" GBR with anything else, I would get regular offspring in the F1, and 75% regular:25% the other color morph in the F2. Clearly this is not mendelian, and has more complex factors at play, with much more genetic plasticity than I realized. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Brandy said: Have you thought about doing a photo family tree, with representatives of all the fish you have crossed and the outcome? I am really interested in this cross, I assumed if I crossed "regular" GBR with anything else, I would get regular offspring in the F1, and 75% regular:25% the other color morph in the F2. Clearly this is not mendelian, and has more complex factors at play, with much more genetic plasticity than I realized Sure, here's a little "photo family tree" . . . started back in June 2019, and ends here in March 2021. Hope this makes sense. The top two are Male Electric Blue and Female Golden -- store bought. Fry were Blue-Gold Opal (Left) and Gold-Blue Opal (Right). We crossed the Blue-Opals, but had only two fry survive. One male was nearly Electric Blue, but the female was very Opaline. These spawned, and only one fry survived -- lower left. The Gold-Blue Opals spawned and yielded 40+ very healthy Rams, Nine of which we still have (and are selling most of this weekend). There were some others in the full batch with much more golden and Lime-like sheen that we probably should have not sold . . . Edited March 17, 2021 by Fish Folk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 So, my GBR spawned in the substrate last night in a dark corner. So far they are being really good taking turns guarding. But I am tempted to pull some...Because it is a sickness with me, lol. Lucky for me the serving spoons belong to me. I immediately thought of this thread when I saw it. Crazily, I was cleaning and gravel vaccing last night, and they kept hanging over that area. I did not even think of it. I am surprised the have any left. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Brandy said: So, my GBR spawned in the substrate last night in a dark corner. So far they are being really good taking turns guarding. But I am tempted to pull some...Because it is a sickness with me, lol. Lucky for me the serving spoons belong to me. I immediately thought of this thread when I saw it. Crazily, I was cleaning and gravel vaccing last night, and they kept hanging over that area. I did not even think of it. I am surprised the have any left. And no full moon? Waning crescent 3 days prior to new moon. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted April 10, 2021 Author Share Posted April 10, 2021 6 hours ago, Brandy said: But I am tempted to pull some...Because it is a sickness with me, lol. 100% understand this sickness . . . Only one of our recent gravel-spawn survived. Hope you have much better luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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