Raising PH

[Liz]

So I've added coral to my freshwater tank in attempts to raise my ph. I have put chunks of coral in my tank. They are not "crushed " . 

So I know the coral works from where I tested it in a container of fish tank water. It raised the ph there after sitting for a couple of days. I believe the ph has come up some considering the yellow that used to show after a ph test was pale faint yellow. Now it's a dark yellow, so logic would says its come up some but not high enough. 

So my question is does it have to be crushed? Would it not work with just chunks in the tank? 

My ph from the tap is a consistent 6.8-7.0 however even with pwc the ph still stays at atleast 6.0. I use prime water conditioner. it specifically states on the bottle that it does NOT effect ph. 

So I'm at a loss here. I've also read that sea shells work as well. Does it have to be a certain type of sea shells?

Some ph help would be greatly appreciated..

 

Thanks,

Liz

[tolstoy21]

I would imagine crushed coral would not dissolve faster, but it might have more total surface area to dissolve from.

I use TopFin crushed coral in media bags in some of my filters and typically the ph gets to 7.2 - 7.4.

But chunks should work as well. People use Texas Holey rock in tanks specifically for this purpose.

Do you know what is acidifying you water down to 6.0 from your 7.0 tap water after a water change? Presumably this could be somewhat suppressing the effect of the buffers added by the coral.

Do you inject CO2 or anything like that ? What is the KH reading in your tank? And your tap water?

[TifNee837]

It may also depend where you place the crushed coral - 

I did not have as much success with raising my pH when I simply mixed in my substrate, as I did and do now when I have placed in media bags inside of my HOB filters.

It dispenses it throughout the tank quicker and gives the desired result sooner than just when i had it in my substrate.

[Liz]

I have a theory as to why my ph is dropping but it's just a theory. Now before I had a massive horrific bacteria massacre my ph would stay about 6.4- 6.8. (I listened to internet people about cleaning my tank to soon and cleaned it all at the same time. Killed massive amount of my good bacteria).

So I think that at this point my good bacteria is eating up all my ph processing the ammonia in my tank leaving me at a 6.0 for ph. My nitrites are 0 and my nitrates are between 10 and 20. My ammonia is 0. So I think there isnt enough ph left after the process. My tank is also planted and there is locally sourced drift wood in my tank. 

So I am hoping to use the coral that a LFS sold me out of a saltwater tank, as a buffer so that when I do water changes it doesnt drop back down. Its not a gradual thing either. It's as if the ph in the water magically disappears as soon as fresh water meets tank water. So I am trying to get the ph back to a point where I can have fish other than Angel's in this particular tank. 

I have doubled up now after reading your response. I put a piece in each of the HOB filters. I also put the remaining pieces ontop of the air stone. Hoping that it will help disperse the dissolved coral. I can see that it is dissolving when I moved the pieces. So here's to hoping. 

I'll check it again in about a hour and let you know if these two things help at all. 

Also I have not tested my kh lately. I need to get a bottle of that to go with my api testing kit. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Liz

[Liz]

Also I do not inject co2. I do however use easy green and excell flourish from seachem. 

[Andy's Fish Den]

You do not have to use crushed coral, you can use the larger pieces and it will help. Why a lot of people use crushed coral is the surface area is greater, and how fast it will dissolve depends upon where you place it in your tank. If you just put some crushed coral in a media bag in the back of the tank it will dissolve a lot slower than if you would put it in your HOB or canister filter where it has c a constant strong water flow over it. 

People will also use crushed oyster shells, as well, and I have even heard of some using crushed egg shells. 

[Socqua]

I'm definitely not an expert on this so feel free to ignore. I doubt it's the good bacteria altering the pH down from 7.0 to 6.0; Bacteria doesn't "eat" pH. Bacteria can, I believe, alter pH by excreting acidic/alkaline organics. I haven't heard of this happening in a typical aquarium with good nitrifying bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria prefer a pH of around 7.0 or a little higher, so I think it's unlikely it would intentionally alter the pH to be more acidic.

That said, a few questions/recommendations:

1) Do you have any fish yet? What's your reasoning for wanting to raise the pH?

2) You definitely should measure the KH. If that is low, your pH will swing much more rapidly.

3) Your driftwood would definitely drop the pH (assuming your KH is sufficiently low). You didn't happen to add the driftwood more recently?

4) Try putting your tap in a bucket and measuring it a few times over the course of a week (day1, day3, etc). See if it drops on its own.

5) Check your water authority quality report and see what they say about the pH of their water. Some sources can vary by a lot, and can depend on the season.

[AdamTill]

A bit of Equilibrium or even baking soda in your change water will also solve the problem if you don’t mind dosing.

[Charose]

are you using a buffering substrate like an aqua soil?

 

[Nick L]

So we are trying to raise our gh and kh and we are using something called aragonite (we picked it up from petco) our ph is pretty high already out of the tap (high 7's) but its been a few days and it's time to test water today (its been 3 or 4 days since we put it in) we will let you know what we find out. Not sure what your tank looks like as far as scape and whatever but the stuff we got basically looks like semi fine white sand. Everything we saw online said to use about a pound per gallon or so. If it works for us maybe it will help you out too

[Liz]

4 hours ago, AdamTill said:

A bit of Equilibrium or even baking soda in your change water will also solve the problem if you don’t mind dosing.

I've seen the baking soda before in videos and other forums. But no one has any dosing information. I've yet to be able to find out the shelf life of the baking soda in the tank. How often do you have to dose the baking soda to keep it steady? How much per gallon? 

I of course prefer to have it done naturally so that I do not have to keep dosing and taking the chance of one day screwing it up and killing all my fish. 

However at this point I am willing to entertain other options. 

[Liz]

2 hours ago, Nick L said:

So we are trying to raise our gh and kh and we are using something called aragonite (we picked it up from petco) our ph is pretty high already out of the tap (high 7's) but its been a few days and it's time to test water today (its been 3 or 4 days since we put it in) we will let you know what we find out. Not sure what your tank looks like as far as scape and whatever but the stuff we got basically looks like semi fine white sand. Everything we saw online said to use about a pound per gallon or so. If it works for us maybe it will help you out too

I read about that last night. I'm seriously interested in your result. 

I tested ph this morning and its still the same. Ugh! 

I did move some coral chunks in the hob filter. Well one chunk in each one. I also put some more chunks ontop of the air stone, I read that it helps disperse the dissolved coral through out the tank. So no change over night. 

I also snapped a photo of the tank in question. 

[Brandy]

It is a big piece of wood, in what is likely soft water to begin with, and some moss that might be dying back. The good news is the angels will tolerate the low ph better than some fish, and with time, both the coral and/or argonite should solve the issue. You don't want to speed-change the water pH. Gradual is far safer.

Re: Baking soda, it is basically instant. Depending on the buffering capablity of your water, it could take more or less. The dose has to be tailored to the water you have. You can do this by taking a gallon of tank water, adding baking soda a tiny bit at a time and stirring well, and then testing the result. In this way you can come up with how much per gallon to use. The baking soda will stay in your water until the next water change (it doesn't evaporate), but if something is still acidifying the water (like the large piece of wood) Ph may still alter across time. Again, the best way to determine if this is the case is to continue testing the water. 

If you do chose to try the baking soda, take a week or two to bring the water slowly to your target rather than rushing it.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Brandy

[quikv6]

I add baking soda to buffer the soft/low KH NYC water we have. I echo what Brandy said fully. The only thing I would add is to do the test experiment with a larger quantity of water...perhaps something closer to what a typical water change would be.

When I just had a 20 gallon, I dialed in my baking soda test to a 5 gallon bucket, as that's what a 25% water change would be. I essentially found I had to add about 1/2 teaspoon of Baking soda to the 5 gallon bucket in order to take a PH of 6.8 up to approx 7.6. It also brought the KH up from 40ppm to 80-100ppm. The 5 gallon bucket gave me a really good gauge.  Now that I have a 75 gallon as my main tank, I generally waterchange about 20 gallons.  Same formula seems to works well...I add 2 teaspoons to yield the same result.

Everyone's water is different, so I really think a few tests are needed to dial it in, in the name of safety and healthy fish.

 

[Liz]

2 hours ago, quikv6 said:

I add baking soda to buffer the soft/low KH NYC water we have. I echo what Brandy said fully. The only thing I would add is to do the test experiment with a larger quantity of water...perhaps something closer to what a typical water change would be.

When I just had a 20 gallon, I dialed in my baking soda test to a 5 gallon bucket, as that's what a 25% water change would be. I essentially found I had to add about 1/2 teaspoon of Baking soda to the 5 gallon bucket in order to take a PH of 6.8 up to approx 7.6. It also brought the KH up from 40ppm to 80-100ppm. The 5 gallon bucket gave me a really good gauge.  Now that I have a 75 gallon as my main tank, I generally waterchange about 20 gallons.  Same formula seems to works well...I add 2 teaspoons to yield the same result.

Everyone's water is different, so I really think a few tests are needed to dial it in, in the name of safety and healthy fish.

 

Does it cloud your water at all? Do you add to the filter or do you add to the water column?

[quikv6]

When I had a smaller tank, I would add it to the buck of water I was going to be adding in. I mixed it well, and let it sit for at least 15 minutes before doing the water change.

Now, with a larger tank, I use the python water changer and change directly from the tap. I mix in the baking soda in a smaller bucket, dechlorinate that bucket of water, and pour it in slowly as the python is filling the tank. With this method, I do get a bit of cloudiness, since the bucket is way more concentrated, but it spreads out quickly, and clears up right away. The fish don't blink an eye.

[Nick L]

@Liz hey in sorry my reply is so late life got crazy after I went back to work. So we tried the aragonite in a 75 gallon tank. We used way less than recommended and it raised the gh to 10 and the kh to 14. We also used it on a 30 gallon tank and I'm pretty sure we used a pound a gallon or so and it raised to gh 10 and kh of 12. Both tanks have organic potting soil substrate with a play sand cap and some plants and some driftwood. And we just added the aragonite to the top layer of substrate