Your cycling method and why you choose it

[NOLANANO]

On 2/19/2024 at 11:38 AM, Bigdog99 said:

Yes, I went through the same thing because I listened to petsmart, not saying petsmart people are not helpful but I think they might emphasize the fish in cycle to much and totally ignore any other method. (At least my petsmart is like that😁)

I also think petsmart and petco tend to hire people and "educate" them about aquariums rather than hiring people with a background in fish keeping. This means that the employee has no knowledge base to fall back on other than what they have been told by their superiors. While they mean well, they just don't know much more than the novices buying the fish. 

When I was in High school, the local petco let me buy an oscar and 2 convict cichlids and put them all in a 29 gallon. needless to say, it didn't go well. The convicts nipped at the oscar until it was dead and then they killed each other. I knew nothing about cycling the tank and am shocked the fish lasted the month or 2 they did. 

[Whitecloud09]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:59 PM, NOLANANO said:

I also think petsmart and petco tend to hire people and "educate" them about aquariums rather than hiring people with a background in fish keeping. This means that the employee has no knowledge base to fall back on other than what they have been told by their superiors. While they mean well, they just don't know much more than the novices buying the fish. 

When I was in High school, the local petco let me buy an oscar and 2 convict cichlids and put them all in a 29 gallon. needless to say, it didn't go well. The convicts nipped at the oscar until it was dead and then they killed each other. I knew nothing about cycling the tank and am shocked the fish lasted the month or 2 they did. 

Yes exactly! I know, most of them I talk to get confused about when I ask Qs about the fishless cycle and instead reccomend API quick start and immediately add fish, when this happens and u have no clue what u are doing, u don’t do the necessary water changes ammonia rises and kills the fish, turns out horrible, I feel like a LOT of people go through the hard way of learning the cycle methods @NOLANANO

[face]

O boy that a lot of response lol I’m actually very surprised how common fish in cycles are I guess people just don’t talk much about them anymore for obvious reasons it’s all very interesting thanks

 

[Whitecloud09]

On 2/19/2024 at 1:04 PM, face said:

O boy that a lot of response lol I’m actually very surprised how common fish in cycles are I guess people just don’t talk much about them anymore for obvious reasons it’s all very interesting thanks

 

Yeah it has carried over for years and is still super popular among new aquarium hobbyists @face

[Galabar]

Fishless cycle for me:

1) I'm lazy.  I don't want to be testing and changing water daily.  Why would I do that to myself? 🙂

2) I don't want to burn my fish with ammonia.  Why would I do that to them? 🙂

3) I've never seen thread on this forum entitled "I completed a fishless cycle, added some fish, and now my fish are dying." 🙂

My advice:

1) Add filter media from another tank (if you have it).

2) Dose some ammonia.

3) Wait about 2 1/2 weeks until nitrites go to 0.

4) Bob's your uncle.

That being said, here is a counter-argument from Father fish, where you should stock a small number of fish right away (with a heavily planted tank):

 

 

Edited February 19 by Galabar

[epicene]

I've always suspected that pet stores know what theyre doing. New fish in, fish death, repeat, will eventually cycle a tank.

[NOLANANO]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:22 PM, Galabar said:

That being said, here is a counter-argument from Father fish, where you should stock a small number of fish right away (with a heavily planted tank):

Father Fish irks me a bit. He obviously has a ton of success doing things his way and definitely has more experience and knowledge than I do. But the idea that there is one way to do things and he does it correctly while everyone else is wrong doesn't sit well with me.

Now I admittedly have only watched what is occasionally posted on this board so it is possible that I am completely misrepresenting the man and his opinions. But from what I gather it seems like he's got it figured out and everyone else is doing it wrong in his opinion.

[Pepere]

From a stores perspective I suspect a lot of new fish tank buys are impulse purchases.

 

If the store laid out a plan of setting up the tank and waiting 6-8 weeks to cycle, a lot of people would be overwhelmed, put off by it…

lost sales….

Lots of people dont wanna know either…. I was talking to an acquaintance who has a 15 gallon with a dozen Glo Fish skirt tetras in it and plastic plants.  Only ever uses the moonlight feature from the kit light because otherwise the Algae gets too bad…. Has never done a water change, simply tops off water level and changes a cartridge to hob.  States she doesnt need to do water changes because she bought a water conditioner that “ instantly eliminates all chlorine, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.  Zaps them right away.”  Never tested her water either because her magic solution eliminates all potential issues.  Declined an offer of free test strips too…

 

[Charestv]

Its for sure hit or miss between petcos and petsmarts. I went to the petco near my house recently and looked at all of the tanks and spoke to the person in charge who seemed to really know what he was talking about and almost made it his passion to take care of the fish and tanks. I for sure dont mean to bad talk any of them and hope none of this comes off wrong. 

[Galabar]

Does the Aquarium Co Op physical store sell seasoned/cycled sponges?  Maybe they could put a big sign up stating: "For new hobbyists, we sell seasoned sponge filters to get you going quickly and safely.  Just ask an employee."

[lefty o]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:06 PM, Bigdog99 said:

Yeah it has carried over for years and is still super popular among new aquarium hobbyists @face

a lot of us old timers do it too.

[Pepere]

My local Petco has serious fish enthusiasts in the department..  but they are not decision makers…. The store is terribly run down and the fish aisles are forever blocked by pallets of dog food.  It is unkempt, in need of cleaning, understaffed, and the shelves are horribly understocked.

I rarely buy any hardgoods there..

 

[NOLANANO]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:32 PM, Charestv said:

Its for sure hit or miss between petcos and petsmarts. I went to the petco near my house recently and looked at all of the tanks and spoke to the person in charge who seemed to really know what he was talking about and almost made it his passion to take care of the fish and tanks. I for sure dont mean to bad talk any of them and hope none of this comes off wrong. 

Oh no, you can tell when a petsmart or petco has someone in charge that has actual knowledge. They will usually have a wider variety of fish to offer than the usual suspects and typically have a better selection of foods and other accessories.

[lefty o]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:28 PM, NOLANANO said:

Father Fish irks me a bit. He obviously has a ton of success doing things his way and definitely has more experience and knowledge than I do. But the idea that there is one way to do things and he does it correctly while everyone else is wrong doesn't sit well with me.

Now I admittedly have only watched what is occasionally posted on this board so it is possible that I am completely misrepresenting the man and his opinions. But from what I gather it seems like he's got it figured out and everyone else is doing it wrong in his opinion.

this is the thing, there is more than 1 way to get the desired result, and to do so without causing harm to the fish involved.

[Galabar]

From my perspective, a successful fish-in cycle consists of (a) having cycled filter media from another tank, (b) lots of plants, (c) light stocking of fish, and (d) very light feeding.

[Charestv]

On 2/19/2024 at 1:37 PM, NOLANANO said:

Oh no, you can tell when a petsmart or petco has someone in charge that has actual knowledge. They will usually have a wider variety of fish to offer than the usual suspects and typically have a better selection of foods and other accessories.

Ya for sure i showed up on there fish delivery day last week just to scope the place out to see if it was worth getting fish there and he was all excited/disappointed they just got 6 lemon Oscars in which are beautiful fish but they weren't looking good to him. (looked fine to me) but he was explaining about how he is going to treat them to get them better and then put them for sale. Sorry this thread seems to have gotten off topic a bit lol

[JettsPapa]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:02 AM, Tony s said:

Yeah, we’re all very nice here. I wonder what happens when you throw that question into the wild 😜 

You get told that anyone who does fish-in cycling, even when done with regular water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrites very low, is cruelty to animals.

On 2/19/2024 at 10:36 AM, AndEEss said:

The problem with fish-in is two fold:

1) A “hardy” fish is still being burned by ammonia and nitrite. It just doesn’t die as quickly as a less hardy fish. 
 

2) You’re then throwing a live animal away or sending it back to the LFS so it can be tortured again. Or, if the fish keeper is bad enough at caring for the animals in question, the fish are tortured to death. 

1)  The "hardy" fish don't get burned if the water is changed when needed.

2) This also doesn't happen if the water is changed when needed.

On 2/19/2024 at 10:44 AM, Sun.singh1991 said:

After using Fritzyme 7 and Seachem matrix in my tanks, I have never had a problem with cycling an aquarium. 
 
I just make sure the tank has pH is over 6.8 and temp over 76 and the bacteria have always kept up. 

It's my understanding, from multiple sources, that with low pH the ammonia toxicity is so low that it's not an issue.

 

 

[NOLANANO]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:31 PM, Pepere said:

Lots of people dont wanna know either…. I was talking to an acquaintance who has a 15 gallon with a dozen Glo Fish skirt tetras in it and plastic plants.  Only ever uses the moonlight feature from the kit light because otherwise the Algae gets too bad…. Has never done a water change, simply tops off water level and changes a cartridge to hob.  States she doesnt need to do water changes because she bought a water conditioner that “ instantly eliminates all chlorine, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.  Zaps them right away.”  Never tested her water either because her magic solution eliminates all potential issues.  Declined an offer of free test strips too…

I have a buddy trying to get into the hobby and I am struggling a bit with finding the sweet spot of being helpful and encouraging while not taking over or making it seem daunting. He is willing to take the help if I offer it and he will ask questions but I want to make sure its his fish journey and not mine. At the moment he has a 5 gallon tank that he bought because his kids won 2 goldfish at a school fair. The goldfish died quickly but his kids were interested so he decided to give it a go with more appropriate sized fish. He did a fishless cycle with much more patience than I ever had but I do see little mistakes here and there. I'll maybe give a hint or 2 when we are talking about his tank or mine but I am trying my hardest not to just fix all his issues for him.  My big push right now is to try to convince him to take my empty 29G so he can keep some fish in appropriate numbers and space.

The big issue we are going to have to cross at some point if he takes the 29G is that he sees my Amazon puffers and wants some. Depending on the source, it seems like he COULD do a single Amazon puffer in a 29G and still keep a small school of dither fish plus the CPO Dwarf crawfish the he currently has in the 5 gallon but I will have to get him to fully read up on these fish as they aren't as easy to feed and take more effort than the standard fish.

[Whitecloud09]

On 2/19/2024 at 1:22 PM, Galabar said:

Fishless cycle for me:

1) I'm lazy.  I don't want to be testing and changing water daily.  Why would I do that to myself? 🙂

2) I don't want to burn my fish with ammonia.  Why would I do that to them? 🙂

3) I've never seen thread on this forum entitled "I completed a fishless cycle, added some fish, and now my fish are dying." 🙂

My advice:

1) Add filter media from another tank (if you have it).

2) Dose some ammonia.

3) Wait about 2 1/2 weeks until nitrites go to 0.

4) Bob's your uncle.

That being said, here is a counter-argument from Father fish, where you should stock a small number of fish right away (with a heavily planted tank):

 

 

Spot on, fishless cycle hurts u in only one way,

1.Your  Patience is tested!!!!!!!! lol

On 2/19/2024 at 1:37 PM, lefty o said:

this is the thing, there is more than 1 way to get the desired result, and to do so without causing harm to the fish involved.

Yes I agree

On 2/19/2024 at 1:28 PM, NOLANANO said:Father Fish irks me a bit. He obviously has a ton of success doing things his way and definitely has more experience and knowledge than I do. But the idea that there is one way to do things and he does it correctly while everyone else is wrong doesn't sit well with me.

Now I admittedly have only watched what is occasionally posted on this board so it is possible that I am completely misrepresenting the man and his opinions. But from what I gather it seems like he's got it figured out and everyone else is doing it wrong in his opinion.

I have never watched him before. 

[Gannon]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:58 PM, Bigdog99 said:

Spot on, fishless cycle hurts u in only one way,

1.Your  Patience is tested!!!!!!!! lol

Yes I agree

I like that statement on fishless cycles. Not only is it more stable conditios for a stressed newly moved fish, its better peace of mind for the aquarium keeper. This hobby is supposed to be fun and personally I can't have fun being stressed and super watchful of ammonia. Granted water changes are also way harder for me because I have to use RODI, so maybe my perspective is a tad warped. 

[Galabar]

In terms of patience, yeah, you've got to fight that desire to throw fish in there.  However, it's only for a couple of weeks...

[Whitecloud09]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:04 PM, Galabar said:

In terms of patience, yeah, you've got to fight that desire to throw fish in there.  However, it's only for a couple of weeks...

Yes, it isn’t actually that bad, so safe and if u got live plants it is even better 

 

On 2/19/2024 at 2:02 PM, Gannon said:

I like that statement on fishless cycles. Not only is it more stable conditios for a stressed newly moved fish, its better peace of mind for the aquarium keeper. This hobby is supposed to be fun and personally I can't have fun being stressed and super watchful of ammonia. Granted water changes are also way harder for me because I have to use RODI, so maybe my perspective is a tad warped. 

Yea definitely. 

[AndEEss]

On 2/19/2024 at 11:47 AM, JettsPapa said:

You get told that anyone who does fish-in cycling, even when done with regular water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrites very low, is cruelty to animals.

1)  The "hardy" fish don't get burned if the water is changed when needed.

2) This also doesn't happen if the water is changed when needed.

It's my understanding, from multiple sources, that with low pH the ammonia toxicity is so low that it's not an issue.

 

 

Serious question: 

How many people do you think are doing 50%+ water changes every day AND are capable of keeping a pH below 7, constantly? 

Based on the comments on this board, that isn’t a lot of people. I’d say less than a quarter.

(Also, nitrite toxicity is the opposite of ammonia; worse below 7)

[Whitecloud09]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:18 PM, AndEEss said:

Serious question: 

How many people do you think are doing 50%+ water changes every day AND are capable of keeping a pH below 7, constantly? 

Based on the comments on this board, that isn’t a lot of people. I’d say less than a quarter.

(Also, nitrite toxicity is the opposite of ammonia; worse below 7)

Exactly! Fish in cycle has way more cons than pros!

[Sun.singh1991]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:47 PM, JettsPapa said:

You get told that anyone who does fish-in cycling, even when done with regular water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrites very low, is cruelty to animals.

1)  The "hardy" fish don't get burned if the water is changed when needed.

2) This also doesn't happen if the water is changed when needed.

It's my understanding, from multiple sources, that with low pH the ammonia toxicity is so low that it's not an issue.

 

 

You’re correct about toxicity of ammonia being not an issue under low pH settings, but not all fish can live under low pH. I’m trying to explain that the nitrification process is accelerated at a higher pH because of the use of alkalinity.

Edited February 19 by Sun.singh1991