Does my betta have a fungal/bacterial thing going on?

[JillianGarcia05]

I need some help again. I thought I was out of the woods with my betta, but yesterday I noticed some light patches (like the one on her head) around her gills and under her chin. 

This morning her right eye got cloudy again - I'm not sure what to do. 

For context, I was battling an ammonia spike and got it down to 0ppm. To help with getting the spike down I did a week and a half of water changes and then went to the co-op in person to get more help. I was instructed to put FritzZyme 7 Freshwater and then start treating the tank with Maracyn due to the pop-eye and what I thought was an ammonia burn (the light patch on her head).

She perked back up, is WAY more active and her normal self and by the time I completed the first cycle of treatment, the water parameters seemed to have balanced out - that was on Thursday. Tested the waters on Saturday and the same. But today I tested and it seems to have a little ammonia in the water (the API said 0-.25ppm). 

I think she has a bacterial/fungal thing happening, should I do another dose of the maracyn? I see on the box it helps with bacteria on fish and the description matches what might be happening.

Here's the tank info:
3 gallons
77 temp
pH: 7.0
Ammonia: 0-.25 ppm 
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm

Picture's below of my Augustine - sorry for the hazy glass, was told to leave them alone because that's where good bacteria live too. 

[Fish Folk]

It seems to me to be bacterial. API has several products to consider. I think the best is probably ... 

E. M. ERYTHROMYCIN [E-mycin is broad-spectrum antibiotic treatment] 

There are other companies who sell this product under another name. Fritz Aquatics sells it as "MARACYN." 

[JillianGarcia05]

On 12/11/2023 at 11:32 AM, Fish Folk said:

There are other companies who sell this product under another name. Fritz Aquatics sells it as "MARACYN.

Hi @Fish Folk - I have Maracyn from Fritz. I did one round of treatment for the pop-eye re: ammonia spike. Sounds like she needs another round of the 5-day treatment? 

Thanks!

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/11/2023 at 11:37 AM, JillianGarcia05 said:

Hi @Fish Folk - I have Maracyn from Fritz. I did one round of treatment for the pop-eye re: ammonia spike. Sounds like she needs another round of the 5-day treatment? 

Bacteria is typically a back to back treatment (2 weeks with 1 day off in-between).  Please see the note at the end!

If you can, please try to get a tight shot on the head from the front and side view.  I am trying to see the scales on the head and body region.

There is some bloating, so lets also hold food for a minimum of 5, preferably 7 days. 

I would also love to see the rear fins in case there is any signs of fin rot.

Also, there may or may not be some white cysts which could point towards a few things as well.



If it's just added slime coat it could look like this as well.  Let's try to see some detail and go from there!

On 12/11/2023 at 9:05 AM, JillianGarcia05 said:

77 temp

I would start by turning the temp to 79 and let the tank slowly raise up.  77 might be on the cold side.

Edited December 11, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/11/2023 at 9:05 AM, JillianGarcia05 said:

Ammonia: 0-.25 ppm 

What is your filtration setup like?  Poor water parameters could be the root cause of the issues you're seeing.  If you have some stability issues with ammonia, nitrite, then I would highly recommend a good water change... 80% or so (one time) and follow that with 30-50% water changes for a few days.  Getting water quality where it needs to be would be priority over adding in more meds right now. 

Marina has a nano filter that's adjustable that can be used with bettas.  (S10 is the model number) and it can be modified to remove the cartridges and add in something like ceramic media to boost your tank water parameters stability.  Adding something like lava rock to the tank can also help with that.

  

On 12/11/2023 at 9:05 AM, JillianGarcia05 said:

For context, I was battling an ammonia spike and got it down to 0ppm. To help with getting the spike down I did a week and a half of water changes and then went to the co-op in person to get more help. I was instructed to put FritzZyme 7 Freshwater and then start treating the tank with Maracyn due to the pop-eye and what I thought was an ammonia burn (the light patch on her head).

Awesome!  Let's also just triple check filtration is good and adequate.  Having a 3G setup can be very prone to swings and spikes.

Edited December 11, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[JillianGarcia05]

On 12/11/2023 at 12:41 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

If you can, please try to get a tight shot on the head from the front and side view.  I am trying to see the scales on the head and body region.

Hi @nabokovfan87 - this is the best I could get (see image below). She loves moving around a lot when she sees me. Lots of energy.

On 12/11/2023 at 12:41 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I would start by turning the temp to 79 and let the tank slowly raise up.  77 might be on the cold side.

The heater I have I can't adjust the temps. So I will have to wait to get paid on Thursday to find another one to help heat the tank more. Do you have any recommendations for one that's for 3 gallons?

 

On 12/11/2023 at 12:47 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

What is your filtration setup like?  Poor water parameters could be the root cause of the issues you're seeing.  If you have some stability issues with ammonia, nitrite, then I would highly recommend a good water change... 80% or so (one time) and follow that with 30-50% water changes for a few days.  Getting water quality where it needs to be would be priority over adding in more meds right now. 

I did have a carbon filter. But replacing it with a sponge (got the sponge from the co-op) because of the maracyn treatment. I followed the instructions of how to transfer that old filter and replace it with the new one per the co-op instructions (went in person). I also have ceramic rings in the filtration set-up (which is a back hanging on that came with the tank - Top Fin betta set-up).

As for the water change, I did do some big ones when I found out I had an ammonia spike (around Thanksgiving week). And did 30% water changes daily for about one week. I was instructed when i went to the co-op to put that Fritz 7 in and follow the med instructions leaving the tank be. I only did one treatment of the maracyn. So basically, I need to repeat what I did a few weeks ago with daily tank changes? Sorry, just clarifying!

Thanks!

On 12/11/2023 at 12:41 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

There is some bloating, so lets also hold food for a minimum of 5, preferably 7 days. 

Also noting - I will make sure to make her fast. She isn't going to be too happy about that. Does the bloating mean something?

 

On 12/11/2023 at 12:41 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Bacteria is typically a back to back treatment (2 weeks with 1 day off in-between). 

Also, I only did one full treatment of the maracyn (started 12/2-12/7) and did the 25% water change recommended on the 6th day last Thursday. So was I supposed to do one more round of treatment or should I hold off?

[Fish Folk]

@nabokovfan87 is correct… white dots are an added concern. If it’s Ich…  try Maracyn + Ich-X together.

[JillianGarcia05]

On 12/11/2023 at 2:55 PM, Fish Folk said:

 is correct… white dots are an added concern

Hi @Fish Folk - I took an updated picture, shown in my reply to @nabokovfan87. The photo above doesn't have the spots seen in the first photo I posted. However, I can confirm those aren't there on her anymore. I've looked very thoroughly!

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/11/2023 at 1:31 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

The heater I have I can't adjust the temps. So I will have to wait to get paid on Thursday to find another one to help heat the tank more. Do you have any recommendations for one that's for 3 gallons?

I tried a few and it's tough!  you'd want to find something ~25 watts if you can.  Sicce has some heaters that fit that, not adjustable though, and I'll attach a Pecktec vid below.  I'll also toss in a Rachel vid where she's discussing nano heaters.
 

 

On 12/11/2023 at 1:31 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

On 12/11/2023 at 12:41 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

There is some bloating, so lets also hold food for a minimum of 5, preferably 7 days. 

Also noting - I will make sure to make her fast. She isn't going to be too happy about that. Does the bloating mean something?

It's a tough one.  It could be a food issue, it could be just gulping air, or it could be a fluid buildup, but the best thing to do is not to make the situation worse by feeding and making the fish bloat even more.  I had one fish and it took the full 7 days for them to reduce the bloat a little bit.  Just be patient with it.  Fish in the wild don't eat every single day!

 

 

On 12/11/2023 at 1:31 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

Hi @nabokovfan87 - this is the best I could get (see image below). She loves moving around a lot when she sees me. Lots of energy.

Unfortunately I do see a bit of fin rot.

The meds for that would most likely be kanaplex as the easiest one to get a hold of.  the other one to use in lieu of kanaplex is maracyn 2. 

Again, likely you're looking at 2 treatments back to back to fully resolve that situation.

So... big picture. we treat whatever is the worst thing first. Right now the worst thing is likely the popeye and the bloating.  @Colu @Odd Duck Given the 3 symptoms we have here, fin rot, bloating, and popeye, and currently undergoing treatment with maracyn (round 2) and needing a heater to bump the temp up, what is your recommendation here for next steps?

[JillianGarcia05]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

you'd want to find something ~25 watts if you can.

@nabokovfan87 thanks! I’ll watch those videos tomorrow and start doing some research. I’d imagine Amazon might have some option. 
 

On 12/11/2023 at 10:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Unfortunately I do see a bit of fin rot.

Oh no! My poor fish. The curious thing is the area you pointed out she had when I bought her end of September/beginning October. So it’s possible I brought her home with it. 
 

On 12/11/2023 at 10:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Again, likely you're looking at 2 treatments back to back to fully resolve that situation.

So do the maracyn and then dose with the other type of meds? The maracyn did list it helps with fin rot but might need something stronger it sounds.

Also, I think the bloating is from her food and how she eats. She gulps a lot of air, since its fish flakes. But reading about that sounds like those aren’t the best for her due to the filler too. Any recommendations on betta food?

I appreciate your help and time along with everyone else. I’ve asked a lot of questions and feel a bit lost. So thank you! I really want to make her better, she means a lot to me. 

i also have plans for building her a 10 gallon tank with real plants and more room to swim. 

[JillianGarcia05]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

you'd want to find something ~25 watts if you can.

@nabokovfan87 thanks! I’ll watch those videos tomorrow and start doing some research. I’d imagine Amazon might have some option.

updating on heater since I cant sleep. This looks promising and I can control the temp, plus 4+5 star reviews:

Pawfly Submersible Aquarium Heater 50 W Betta Fish Tank Heater Adjustable Electronic Heating Rod with Thermostat and Water Shortage/Overheating Protection for Fish Tanks up to 15 Gallons https://a.co/d/1CU2GXh

if this looks okay, I’m going to order since the other 25w barely got to 78.

On 12/11/2023 at 10:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Unfortunately I do see a bit of fin rot.

Oh no! My poor fish. The curious thing is the area you pointed out she had when I bought her end of September/beginning October. So it’s possible I brought her home with it. 
 

On 12/11/2023 at 10:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Again, likely you're looking at 2 treatments back to back to fully resolve that situation.

So do the maracyn and then dose with the other type of meds? The maracyn did list it helps with fin rot but might need something stronger it sounds.

Also, I think the bloating is from her food and how she eats. She gulps a lot of air, since its fish flakes. But reading about that sounds like those aren’t the best for her due to the filler too. Any recommendations on betta food?

I appreciate your help and time along with everyone else. I’ve asked a lot of questions and feel a bit lost. So thank you! I really want to make her better, she means a lot to me. 

i also have plans for building her a 10 gallon tank with real plants and more room to swim. 

[Colu]

On 12/12/2023 at 7:03 AM, JillianGarcia05 said:

@nabokovfan87 thanks! I’ll watch those videos tomorrow and start doing some research. I’d imagine Amazon might have some option.

updating on heater since I cant sleep. This looks promising and I can control the temp, plus 4+5 star reviews:

Pawfly Submersible Aquarium Heater 50 W Betta Fish Tank Heater Adjustable Electronic Heating Rod with Thermostat and Water Shortage/Overheating Protection for Fish Tanks up to 15 Gallons https://a.co/d/1CU2GXh

if this looks okay, I’m going to order since the other 25w barely got to 78.

Oh no! My poor fish. The curious thing is the area you pointed out she had when I bought her end of September/beginning October. So it’s possible I brought her home with it. 
 

So do the maracyn and then dose with the other type of meds? The maracyn did list it helps with fin rot but might need something stronger it sounds.

Also, I think the bloating is from her food and how she eats. She gulps a lot of air, since its fish flakes. But reading about that sounds like those aren’t the best for her due to the filler too. Any recommendations on betta food?

I appreciate your help and time along with everyone else. I’ve asked a lot of questions and feel a bit lost. So thank you! I really want to make her better, she means a lot to me. 

i also have plans for building her a 10 gallon tank with real plants and more room to swim. 

Fast as @nabokovfan87 suggested finishes the course of maracyn then I would holed off on any more antibiotic treatments I would also add some aquarium salt 1table spoon for 2 gallons that will help reduce any possible fluid buildup in the eye  if you have live plants add 1 table spoon for 5 gallons for a week than give an update if your seeing no improvement 

[Fish Folk]

@JillianGarcia05 I want to share an honest point that some aquarists will be very upset with me for saying.

We all need to exercise a proper degree of care for our fish. Many fish keepers have only a few fish, one or two tanks, and feel deeply attached to their wet pets, naming every one. In this scenario, it is possible to spend 500%+ of the cost of the fish on medications and treatments. Perhaps this is you. Maybe you bought your Betta for $20, and are absolutely fine spending $100 or more on medications. No one will judge you.

But here is another perspective. Please try to hear this as another approach to respectful care in the hobby (again, this will irritate some people to no end). I have kept over a thousand fish in the last 5-6 years. I’ve had to make limits on  how much I am willing to spend on keeping sick fish alive. I have euthanized a few, and flushed plenty of dead fish. If this ends sadly for you, please know you’re not alone.

Betta splendens are sickness-prone, injury-prone, tragically inbred, kept in appalling conditions before sale… in truth, this forum alone has maybe seen more “Sick Betta! Help!” posts than anything. Hopefully you can turn things around for your little blue. But if not, don’t give up on the hobby if she passes.

Sickness can be brought in with a new fish. For this reason, quarantine is always advisable. Many folks religiously dose Maracyn + Ich-X + API General Cure together with all new arrivals. Many fish stores do not, and tend to lose livestock. Outside the US, some medications are restricted or difficult to come by. Aquarium salt mixtures can be a benefit in those scenarios.

But often, the issues with fish stem from environmental factors we can improve as we study and adapt in this hobby. Overfeeding is most problematic. Poor maintenance is a fast second to that. Water quality is vital to master. These are areas all of us are still working to improve.

As a fish breeder, let me add this final thought: the healthiest fish I have ever kept were those I bred and raised in my own water. The majority of fish I’ve bought arrived with minor health issues… a few with major issues.

So don’t give up. We are rooting for you and your fish. If things go poorly, we have been there too. Keep going! 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:47 PM, JillianGarcia05 said:

So do the maracyn and then dose with the other type of meds? The maracyn did list it helps with fin rot but might need something stronger it sounds.

Also, I think the bloating is from her food and how she eats. She gulps a lot of air, since its fish flakes. But reading about that sounds like those aren’t the best for her due to the filler too. Any recommendations on betta food?

I appreciate your help and time along with everyone else. I’ve asked a lot of questions and feel a bit lost. So thank you! I really want to make her better, she means a lot to me. 

As Colu and Fish Folk mentioned, it might be best to give the fish, salt, and meds some time. Finish the round of meds and salt and holding off food to see how things change in a week.

I apologize for that feeling of being lost. It does happen to all of us at some point and it's part of that "introduction" to the hobby. For myself it happened years in when I had my first illness issue. I learned a lot as well from struggling with plant and algae issues.

I would check out the aqueon betta nutrinsect line of foods. It's very affordable and should replicate the fishes diet pretty well. It has other advantages as well given the ingredients used.

We are all here to help. So please let that ease a bit of the concern and anxiety of the situation you might be feeling.  We all want each other to succeed and enjoy the hobby for a long time. 🙂

[JillianGarcia05]

On 12/12/2023 at 8:14 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

As Colu and Fish Folk mentioned, it might be best to give the fish, salt, and meds some time. Finish the round of meds and salt and holding off food to see how things change in a week.

@Colu and @nabokovfan87 I'll have to find some aquarium salt for her tank then.

On 12/12/2023 at 3:56 AM, Fish Folk said:

So don’t give up. We are rooting for you and your fish. If things go poorly, we have been there too. Keep going! 

@Fish Folk I think I've been saddling the line of accepting a positive or negative outcome with her. So I get what you're saying and all in all, just want whatever's best for her. But this lesson is important and I have learned so much from everyone. So thank you for that reminder that stuff happens, good or bad. 

 

[Odd Duck]

Lots of solid advice here.  I agree with finishing current round of meds, add aquarium salt, and maybe add some FritzZyme 7 again to boost your biofiltration while meds are in the water.  You might want to do the FritzZyme again after your last water change when finished with this round of meds.  That will help bring your biofiltration back up to par after the meds.  Small tanks are notorious to keep balanced.  My 3 G shrimp tank just got over run with hair algae since I’ve had several weeks in a row of extremely long, busy shifts and I end up too drained to keep up with appropriate water changes.  It’s going to take me weeks to get this controlled and back on track, but it will be worth it in the long run.

You’re still in the learning stages so give yourself some grace and just focus on absorbing knowledge.

[JillianGarcia05]

On 12/13/2023 at 5:08 PM, Odd Duck said:

maybe add some FritzZyme 7 again to boost your biofiltration while meds are in the water.  You might want to do the FritzZyme again after your last water change when finished with this round of meds.  That will help bring your biofiltration back up to par after the meds

Hi @Odd Duck - I did add some more FritzZyme 7 after my tank change on Saturday (per the med instructions) and a little more aquarium salt too.

Got her new food at the co-op and she seems to not be bloating after eating now. I was feeding her flakes and she seemed to gulp in as much air as food. Plus, I had a few people tell me the flakes weren't as good. So now she has the little pellets and I drop them in one at a time so she doesn't wolf them down. 

The fungual looks like it's improving a bit, a little less on her left side and the top of her head. The person I spoke with at the aquarium co-op said to give her a week off after the meds were done and see how she was doing. But I did watch a video on their YouTube that said aquarium salt can help with a lot of stuff. 

I guess we'll see :)

[Odd Duck]

Sounds like some progress is being made.  If she is looking good overall at the end of the treatment then a break is good.

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/18/2023 at 8:57 AM, JillianGarcia05 said:

I was feeding her flakes and she seemed to gulp in as much air as food. Plus, I had a few people tell me the flakes weren't as good. So now she has the little pellets and I drop them in one at a time so she doesn't wolf them down. 

You can use pinsettes and hand feed too! Fish for thought on YouTube has some videos on doing this, but it's a pretty common technique.

Glad to hear about the improvement! 💪

[JillianGarcia05]

On 12/19/2023 at 12:34 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

You can use pinsettes and hand feed too! Fish for thought on YouTube has some videos on doing this, but it's a pretty common technique.

Glad to hear about the improvement! 💪

I'll have to check those YouTube videos out. She likes the pellets - and wants more after feeding her allotment for the day. 

And yes - improvement has been made by leaps and bounds! The bacteria is almost 100% cleared up - just a tinyspot on her head left. Though her right eye is still a tiny bit swollen, not sure what to do about that. Might go to the co-op on Saturday and chat with the folks down there after her next tank change. Other than that she's been sassy as ever - her personality is back for sure. She even flared her gills at me when I did a quick water test and it wasn't food. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/20/2023 at 11:14 AM, JillianGarcia05 said:

Other than that she's been sassy as ever - her personality is back for sure. She even flared her gills at me when I did a quick water test and it wasn't food. 

Amazing signs! 😁

That's awesome.