Equiptment for 40 breeder plants/fish

[MCJ]

Hello everyone. I have a lot of experience with coral salt water fish tanks for 15 years but only had a basic fresh water when I was a kid. 

I am setting up a fresh water 40 breeder for my sons birthday and want it to be full of plants and fish (in time). I know about cycling and testing. No idea yet what species, still have a lot to learn in the fresh water world but colorful and exotic is a good start.

I have done a lot of searching and reading on this site and the you tube channel. However I need to get things ordered so I dont have weeks to research gear. 

I have a really nice painted aluminum stand from one of my old salt tanks and will be picking up a new Aqueon 40 from Petco since that's the only place I can even find any tanks.

I am more concerned about buying the right gear to sustain an impressive tank the first time vs budget.

Lighting: I am looking at the Fluval Plant 3.0 in the 36" length to sit on top the tank and span all the way across. The Aquasky 2.0 looks good to but from what I have read the 3.0 is top of the line and will grow anything. If its better to hang the light above the tank I guess I could go down to a 24"?

Filtration: I am having a hard time on this so am looking for feedback. Thinking of a well planted tank plus a decent amount of fish to try and get a rough idea of bio load. Sumps dont seem to be as popular on fresh as they are on salt. I am thinking a HOB Aquaclear 50 (or 70?) with a sponge filter on the intake. Not sure if its needed but maybe a co op large coarse sponge filter on the opposite side.  Not too interested in the canister filter and kind of read info that says not really necessary. From what I understand if I put the right plants that reduces the amount of filtration I need but if we have a lot of fish it will be a balancing act.

Heater: Aqueon pro 200w seems to have good reviews

Lid: really not sure, I have a lot of clear polycarbonate I can build one out of. I will probably just built a hood around the rim so fish can't jump out and leave the top of the tank open to prevent heat build up plus hide the light.

Media/substrate: Please recommend, we have looked at a lot of awesome planted tanks and my wife prefers the white sand look but whatever is best for growing plants is what we want. We also do not plan on having plants growing out of the tank.

Rocks/wood: I know some types of rocks are bad and can mess with the water quality. Is there anywhere online to buy some nice rocks? I guess we will have to search local areas for some drift wood pieces. 

CO2: From the limited research I have time to spend looking up CO2 it looks like it really helps the plants. I would like to use a generator vs a compressed tank that has to be refilled. 

I appreciate any input to help bring me up to speed. Will post the build on here as it progresses. There are some beautiful tanks on here.

[Tlindsey]

On 11/30/2023 at 9:22 AM, MCJ said:

The Aquasky 2.0

Lighting for plants depends on what plants because some species such as Anubius,Java Fern,  and Java Moss don't require bright light. 

 

On 11/30/2023 at 9:22 AM, MCJ said:

Media/substrate

I personally prefer sand but it's your preference. 

 

On 11/30/2023 at 9:22 AM, MCJ said:

HOB Aquaclear 50 (or 70?) with a sponge filter on the intake. 

 I have aquaclear 70 on my 40 breeder works well. 

 

 

[Mmiller2001]

Before you spend too much money on a Fluval 3.0, I would take a look at a WeekAqua P or L series lights. There’s no comparison. 

Pick any substrate you like that looks good to you. Keep grain size in 1 to 3mm range. White is nice, but can take a bit of extra work to keep it looking its best. Having a bit of color is nice. Look at Super Naturals Jungle river sand.

See if you have a pond supply store near you for rocks. Fish stores are a rip off on rocks. 
 

Bottom line, a proper CO2 system with compressed CO2 is the better option. Keeping CO2 stable is extremely important and the generators struggle to keep CO2 consistent. 
 

Here’s my tank with Ace Hardware pool filter sand. They have a few colors available and it’s cheap.

[Tlindsey]

Beautiful planted tank. 

[Biotope Biologist]

On 11/30/2023 at 6:22 AM, MCJ said:

Lighting: I am looking at the Fluval Plant 3.0 in the 36" length to sit on top the tank and span all the way across.

I don’t love the Fluval plant line. ACO light is great but I think it is not offered on the website at this time? Otherwise take a look at the kessil line if growing more exotic plants. They are pricey, but they look the most natural and have great plant growth specs

 

On 11/30/2023 at 6:22 AM, MCJ said:

Filtration: I am having a hard time on this so am looking for feedback. Thinking of a well planted tank plus a decent amount of fish to try and get a rough idea of bio load. Sumps dont seem to be as popular on fresh as they are on salt. I am thinking a HOB Aquaclear 50 (or 70?) with a sponge filter on the intake. Not sure if its needed but maybe a co op large coarse sponge filter on the opposite side.  Not too interested in the canister filter and kind of read info that says not really necessary. From what I understand if I put the right plants that reduces the amount of filtration I need but if we have a lot of fish it will be a balancing act.

 

You’re right sumps are less popular in the freshwater world, but I have always preferred them. They make great fry grow-out areas and they increase the volume of water held. I have used canisters and HOB but I am lazy when it comes to maintaining filters and sump is so easy to clean. Otherwise with HOB and canisters you will get tons of opinions but I really don’t think you can go wrong with whatever you choose. Just make sure you like the design and go from there. 
 

On 11/30/2023 at 6:22 AM, MCJ said:

Heater: Aqueon pro 200w seems to have good reviews

Lid: really not sure, I have a lot of clear polycarbonate I can build one out of. I will probably just built a hood around the rim so fish can't jump out and leave the top of the tank open to prevent heat build up plus hide the light.

 

Heaters you can’t go wrong whatever you like! If you have a sump you don’t have to see it just saying 😋

 

Lid: I like open air for good gas exchange and I use clear mesh from BRS (bulk reef supply) comes in a kit or you can make your own. I made my own as I grow emergent plants. Also has maximum light penetration whereas acrylic and glass you will lose some light efficiency from reflection.

 

On 11/30/2023 at 6:22 AM, MCJ said:

Media/substrate: Please recommend, we have looked at a lot of awesome planted tanks and my wife prefers the white sand look but whatever is best for growing plants is what we want. We also do not plan on having plants growing out of the tank.

Rocks/wood: I know some types of rocks are bad and can mess with the water quality. Is there anywhere online to buy some nice rocks? I guess we will have to search local areas for some drift wood pieces. 

 

For heavy planted I would use some sort of aquasoil. They are all very good I prefer ADA or UNS. Setup the areas to be planted with the soil and cap with sand you prefer. You can use landscape cloth to keep the sand from mixing with the soil, unless you have digging species like gobies or loaches. 
 

It is more cost effective to figure out the main areas with deep rooting plants and build the soil up there then use the white sand to scape the rest of the tank where plants are scarce or rhizome or carpeting plants are.

 

Rocks/wood: unless you want a specific aesthetic just get some from native areas to you. Boil for safety. It’s free. Otherwise landscaping yards sometimes sell “sample” rocks in 50lb lots. That is your second cheapest option. Buying from an aquarium store is generally for more exotic stones or wood pieces like seiryu stone or spider wood.

 

Fish species: Usually those coming from the marine world like cichlids. There are SO MANY species and special breeds, but they are all colorful and personable. Gobies are becoming more popular, while they need mature tanks, they boast similar color to their marine counterparts. Here are a few photos. Lastly I like barbs for heavy planted tanks, I think they are under appreciated fish and equally flashy especially with a green background:

Black Ram Cichlid:

 

Rhinogobius rubromaculatus:

 

Gold barb- Barbodes semifasciolatus:

Edited November 30, 2023 by Biotope Biologist

[madmark285]

On 11/30/2023 at 9:22 AM, MCJ said:

Sumps dont seem to be as popular on fresh as they are on salt.

I have a DIY sump on a 40 gallon breeder shown below:

 

The sump is a 20 gallon tank and was made with 1/4" PVC material from Home Depot and 4" thin wall PVC pipe for the sock holders. I kind of screwed up this design, the fluidized bed section should have been larger. There is a much better way to make one using the above materials, I working on another one for my 75 gallon tank. If interested, send me a message. 

Mark

[MCJ]

Wow thanks for much for all the replies! I have a lot more to research now but a good direction to go in.

Beautiful tanks and fish y'all have shared. 

I am thinking of using the UNS substrate, I think this is the stuff referred to here: https://www.amazon.com/Ultum-Nature-Controsoil-Freshwater-Substrate/dp/B07C2917XM?th=1 Looks like Ill need 2 of the big bags for roughly a 2" deep bed which I think will be sufficient. 

The gobies pictured above are awesome and didnt even know there were FW ones but used to have some SW ones. They do make a mess playing in the sand and rearranging it.  Ill have to find some once the tank is well established.

It looks like the black soil medias are better for the plants vs just white sand and I do like the idea of soil with landscape fabric to separate the sand layer but I think its going to be cleaner to just stick with one type. 

Glad y'all chimed in on the sumps. I think I am going to go that route, they are quiet, hide the heater filters and can grow natural filtration. Pretty sure I already have an old DIY 20 gallon one I can use. Now I just have to figure out the drain on the tank. Ill have to search around and see if I can do it without drilling the tank. 

As far as lighting goes it sounds like while the Fluval 2.0 would work when you get up to the 3.0 price tag there are better choices.  Glad you mentioned Kessil, I grew a lot of SPS and LPS with them. The shimmer is amazing and really adds to the look in my opinion. I actually have 2 A360W Tuna blues leftover I dont know why I didnt think of them. (Im sure 1 would be plenty for this tank.) Looking on their site I see they have the Tuna Sun geared toward freshwater. It looks like the spectrums are a little different.  Do you think I could use the 360 Tuna blue light I already have and get good plant growth?  I am not opposed to just biting the bullet now and getting the tuna sun if its necessary. The 360s might even be over kill for a tank this size so if I can't use the tuna blue I have maybe buy a 160 tun sun and add a second one if needed? 

[Biotope Biologist]

Yeah the tuna blue works. I can’t remember if that one allows you to configure the ratio of RGB intensity, but if it does I would adjust the blues down, plants mainly use the white/red. 
 

Kessils also have great resale value so if you don’t need the tuna blue in the future you could also quick sell it and buy the sun variant with no extra cost.

 

I will show off my even more bare bones style sump. I set it up as you would a refugium and I got the acrylic dividers from a guy on ebay! My 1st package was stolen, and the seller was very gracious and quick to give me a 2nd set even before ebays insurance kicked back. I don’t use an overflow instead opting for the tank itself to be overflow. In case of pump failure it drains down and if the drain tankside clogs, the pump would run dry before it flooded the main tank.

 

 

Also I have a more drab rhinogoby species, but I still love them:

Edited November 30, 2023 by Biotope Biologist

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/30/2023 at 6:22 AM, MCJ said:

Lighting: I am looking at the Fluval Plant 3.0 in the 36" length to sit on top the tank and span all the way across. The Aquasky 2.0 looks good to but from what I have read the 3.0 is top of the line and will grow anything. If its better to hang the light above the tank I guess I could go down to a 24"?

I ended up having to get an aquasky as the local shop didn't have the 3.0 for a reasonable price.  I didn't have time to order one in and so I ended up using that for a while.  I defintely have much more success with the planted 3.0 light over the aquasky and dialing in the colors to look better is a lot easier.  The aquasky is overly green in terms of tone.

Also, definitely stick with the 36" on that tank!
 

On 11/30/2023 at 6:22 AM, MCJ said:

Sumps dont seem to be as popular on fresh as they are on salt.

If you're comfortable running a sump, absolutely run a sump!  They aren't unpopular, but it's just a situation where it's not the norm due to cost or intimidation of setting one up.  You can have a refugium in there for plants and use it for all kinds of things if you wanted to as well.  It gets the heaters and other stuff out of the tank too.

 

 

On 11/30/2023 at 8:47 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

Black Ram Cichlid:

I love the copper on the lower fin and upper ray of the tail.  Very nice photo sir!
 

On 11/30/2023 at 6:22 AM, MCJ said:

Heater: Aqueon pro 200w seems to have good reviews

Fluval E-Series is my go-to.  If it's in a sump, probably not the best choice to use that one, but it's entirely up to you.  I like the precision and the flow sensor warnings.

 

 

On 11/30/2023 at 6:22 AM, MCJ said:

Lid: really not sure, I have a lot of clear polycarbonate I can build one out of. I will probably just built a hood around the rim so fish can't jump out and leave the top of the tank open to prevent heat build up plus hide the light

If you're getting a standard aqueon tank, the versatop lids should be robust and work well for 40G tanks or larger.  I love my 75G aqueon lids.

 

 

On 11/30/2023 at 6:22 AM, MCJ said:

Media/substrate: Please recommend, we have looked at a lot of awesome planted tanks and my wife prefers the white sand look but whatever is best for growing plants is what we want. We also do not plan on having plants growing out of the tank.

Controsoil is great and works well.  I saw someone mention it above.  In terms of having a sand area (not a cap), I prefer the caribsea crystal river or torpedo beach sands.  That pore size is very very easy to clean and you don't end up with sand in the filters nearly as much.
 

On 11/30/2023 at 6:22 AM, MCJ said:

Rocks/wood: I know some types of rocks are bad and can mess with the water quality. Is there anywhere online to buy some nice rocks? I guess we will have to search local areas for some drift wood pieces. 

There are some places, but due to rules of the forum we can't directly post links here for a lot of places.  I'll send you a dm for a nice one!
 

On 11/30/2023 at 6:22 AM, MCJ said:

CO2: From the limited research I have time to spend looking up CO2 it looks like it really helps the plants. I would like to use a generator vs a compressed tank that has to be refilled. 

Advantage sump ^^ because you can just use in-line or have a reactor. 🙂

Welcome to the forums!

 

[MCJ]

The tuna blue kessils I have are not the newest model and only have white and blue leds which can be operated independently. I did search around and it seems there are some other people using these for planted tanks since, like me already had them.  Found reports of them working well and most turn the blue off for a warmer white look.  Technically the whites are supposed to be full spectrum so should grow well. Other things I read said the C02 is just as important as the lighting. I also came across the Aqua Illumination Prime 16 fresh water light. I remember AI being a good SW brand and these FW lights look really nice but I would need 2 for this tank ~$500 but that's about the same for 2 Kessil 160s. I dont want to sell the tuna blue lights since one day I do want to do another SW coral/fish tank. I think to start out I might just use the 360 tuna blues dimmed to an appropriate intensity and turn the blue way down/off. If the colors just dont look right or things dont grow as planned switch to the tuna suns or primes, unless I am convinced otherwise to just buy them now. 

 

I found an old sump I had, 29gallon that fits inside this stand perfectly. Ill turn it into a refugium style like posted. Ill want to use an led light down here to but pretty sure it can be a really basic led plant light or even a CFL to get started. I know the return pump I have is way too big it was used on a high flow 75 gallon. Can anyone recommend a good quite return pump? From what I read on these tanks 5-10X flow rate is good. I have powerbeads I can add but it seems a lot of FW plants and fish like a lower flow environment. Spray bars seem to be used a lot so I may make something like that to return the water to the tank or do a T and run two flex jet heads. I need to research proper flow more.

 

Biotop Biologist, those gobys are still cool even if they arnt those fancy ones. Can you explain how the water gets to the sump better or show a pic?  Other tanks I had were drilled on the bottom with a standpipe hidden in a skimmer box drain type thing siliconed to the back of the tank or used an overflow box. I dont think this tank can be drilled on the bottom just the back. I dont particularly want to drill it incase of breaking it and even though the over flow boxes are kind of a pain to prime seemed to serve their purpose. I also had a valve on the drain line to control the water flow. I was able to keep everything very quite and that will be my goal with this set up as well.

[Biotope Biologist]

On 11/30/2023 at 1:40 PM, MCJ said:

Can anyone recommend a good quite return pump? From what I read on these tanks 5-10X flow rate is good. I have powerbeads I can add but it seems a lot of FW plants and fish like a lower flow environment. Spray bars seem to be used a lot so I may make something like that to return the water to the tank or do a T and run two flex jet heads. I need to research proper flow more.

 

Biotop Biologist, those gobys are still cool even if they arnt those fancy ones. Can you explain how the water gets to the sump better or show a pic?  Other tanks I had were drilled on the bottom with a standpipe hidden in a skimmer box drain type thing siliconed to the back of the tank or used an overflow box. I dont think this tank can be drilled on the bottom just the back. I dont particularly want to drill it incase of breaking it and even though the over flow boxes are kind of a pain to prime seemed to serve their purpose. I also had a valve on the drain line to control the water flow. I was able to keep everything very quite and that will be my goal with this set up as well.

I can’t recommend a good one because I despise my pump. Its a 175 gph pump from amazon and it is just not consistent at all and I had to modify it extensively to quiet it and keep my shrimplets and ramshorn snail babies from getting unalived…. It was cheap tho

 

For my setup I bought this 50g lowboy from a frag wholesaler so it already had the return and drain holes cut in the side of the glass. I bought the bulkheads from BRS and decided to use the loctite fan sprayer with adjustable arm. I really like it, but my setup is a creek biotope so I needed good turnover and a decent current. I have heard that this setup works well for some plants that like flow.

 

My drain is as bare bones as it gets. Just a 90 degree elbow off the bulkhead into a 1” diameter(?) hosing. The hosing has a control valve with a spout that dumps into a filter sock. 
 

Compartment 1 has my bacteria media just a bunch of bags of ceramic rings. The shrimp keep these free of grime. 
 

Compartment 2 is my refugium and I use frogbit, duckweed, and cabomba to both feed the shrimp and snails and filter the water. 
 

Compartment 3 is pump housing.

[madmark285]

On 11/30/2023 at 4:40 PM, MCJ said:

Can anyone recommend a good quite return pump?

I just bought the Orlushy DC-5000 pump, they had a black friday sale and I got it for $60. I just got it day, no reviews yet.

For quiet operation, a very knowledgeable person recommend a DC powered pump. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by madmark285

[Mmiller2001]

I like my MightyJet DC pumps.

[MCJ]

 

Sounds like it might be noisy draining out the back side of the tank though just a bulkhead fitting. Maybe you have a couple 45* piece of pipe facing down to help not suck air. I think I had to do something like that to keep it quiet. I’m still unsure if I will drill the tank or use the overflow box. Leaning toward the overflow box so I don’t risk screwing up a new tank. 

Thanks I’m going to order a mighty jet pump. The 538 gph seems like it should be a good size considering it has 3-4’ of head pressure to fight and will reduce the flow plus the fact I can control it should be plenty. 
 

From what I am reading it will be a delicate balance of oxygenating the water for the fish and adding co2 to fight the loss from that for the plants.  I’ll need to plan how the water flows to the sump carefully so I don’t add more aeration then needed. 

I fired up one of the tuna blue kessils and think I talked myself out of it. Looks a lot more blue then I remember even on full white. Even if it grows good I don’t think it’s going to look right. I am going to use it initially to get started while the tank cycles. It will buy me a little more time to research lighting and figure out how bright this looks on this tank. The Weeks, Kessil and AI all have nice lights to choose from and probably more I havnt found yet. 

[Fish Folk]

Good heavens @Mmiller2001 that tank looks amazing!

If I were focussed on setting up just one 40 gallon breeder (instead of the 17x miscellaneous tanks I do random things with) I would get an Oase canister filter with a spraybar for good flow. I'd select a color of stone from ActivFlora (I've used Red, Black, White / Gray), and I'd beg around for LOADS of plants. If you like a community of tropical fish, consider aiming for three species-layers: -1- an active, hardy schooling species (shoaling will do); -2- a modest group of bottom-dweller species; and -3- a nice centerpiece pair. If you use a black background and dark substrate, and loads of bright greens . . . a school of Rummynose Tetras are always impressive in motion. The entire internet will break, but you can buy a young pair of colorful Discus to keep in a 40-breeder. Here's a few I still keep and snapped a shot of the other night...

And for bottom dwellers . . . I'd love to add several moderately sized plecos of one species or another. Zebra Plecos are always tempting.

But you could easily also turn a 40 breeder into a cool-water temperate tank with no heater. I'd probably go for a mix of Rainbow Shiners, Two trios of Fireyblack Shiners, and some species of Darters. Same filtration . . . but add more air.

Here's my Rainbow Shiners and Fireyblack Shiners this week...

My favorite Darter is the Banded Darter. This photo isn't mine, but it shows how absolutely amazing they _can look_ in a home aquarium...

Edited December 1, 2023 by Fish Folk

[Mmiller2001]

On 11/30/2023 at 9:25 PM, Fish Folk said:

Good heavens @Mmiller2001 that tank looks amazing!

Thank you! And your Rainbow Shiners are off the chart. What’s the maximum temperature they do well in? How big do they get?

[Fish Folk]

On 11/30/2023 at 11:48 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Thank you! And your Rainbow Shiners are off the chart. What’s the maximum temperature they do well in? How big do they get?

Thanks. They can do OK up to 74°-F. Above that, they begin to breakdown. It’s not all at once…. but they stop spawning, get really skinny… etc.

Maximum size is about 2.75 inches. They take 6-12 months to color up. There are a few varieties of color forms. These are from Alabama / Red Hills region. What’s crazy is how they look when they spawn. They turn hot pink with sky blue fins. It is unreal…

[madmark285]

On 11/30/2023 at 8:17 PM, MCJ said:

Sounds like it might be noisy draining out the back side of the tank though just a bulkhead fitting. Maybe you have a couple 45* piece of pipe facing down to help not suck air. I think I had to do something like that to keep it quiet.

For quiet, the Hebie drain system  works very well:

[madmark285]

For CO2, Mmiller2001 uses a  Yugang reactor which I thought was very cool. 

[MCJ]

Wow Fish Folk thanks for sharing! Another beautiful collection. 
 

I can already tell I will be sucked into this hobby like I was salt water. My wife has a rare plant/house plant/landscape nursery so we are already very into horticulture.

I saw this on you tube and thought it was really cool. Saving the idea for a possible future build. 

As for the overflow I found the perfect solution for me. I’ll post when I build it but found it on YouTube from thekingofdiy. It’s made of pvc, skims off the top, and uses a pump to make sure it never looses prime and the way it’s built it’s easy to reprime. 

[MCJ]

I found a cool 40 breeder another member on here set up. What is the egg crate material on the bottom used for a do I need to use something like that?

 

 

[Schuyler]

On 12/1/2023 at 6:11 AM, MCJ said:

I found a cool 40 breeder another member on here set up. What is the egg crate material on the bottom used for a do I need to use something like that?

 

 

Thanks!

It's just called egg crate light defuser. You can get it at hardware stores. Normally it's used over office lights and they tend to hide it way in the back where it's almost impossible to find lol

[Schuyler]

On 12/1/2023 at 5:11 AM, MCJ said:

I saw this on you tube and thought it was really cool. Saving the idea for a possible future build. 

That's really cool. If you want to see some more similar stuff you should check out Serpadesign. There's one where he builds something like this in a glass IKEA cabinet.

If you decide to go with a lid you should check out killifish like Aphyosemion Australe Gold.

[MCJ]

Cool I’ll check it out serpadesign. My wife has a lot of customers that put her plants in big walls like that in their homes but I have not seen tanks incorporated in like that. Best of both worlds.
 

What is the purpose of the egg crate?

[Schuyler]

On 12/1/2023 at 6:49 AM, MCJ said:

What is the purpose of the egg crate?

Theoretically, it distributes the weight of the rocks. If I redid this tank now I wouldn't use nearly as much. The downside is that it can show through the sand sometimes and can get in the way when planting sometimes.

I it nice for building up some structure that's more stable than sand or gravel.

That rock on the back left was initially at the same height as the others but I used egg crate to lift it up. My thinking was that would give it a flat solid base so it didn't accidentally shift or fall over.