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How bad is green water in a tank? Do I need to buy a UV filter? What should I do?


KittenFishMom
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The afternoon sun has started to hit one of my fish tanks. In a few weeks, the tree out front will leave out and the direct sun will no longer hit the tank.

I don't mind living with green water for a while. But how bad is it for the fish and the tank? Do I need to buy a UV filter? I can cover the side of the tank that gets the direct sunlight. I also have a light over the tank to help the water lettuce and java moss. This tank mostly has cory fry that a breeder should be taking soon and some snails and a male betta.

ACO website says blacking out the tank for a week or getting a UV filter. Neither is very appealing to me right now.

What do you advise?

Edited by KittenFishMom
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It won't hurt the fish at all.  The only way it might hurt the tank would be if your plants aren't getting enough light.  Covering the side of the tank facing the window should help, as would adding more live plants.

Reducing the duration of the light may also help.  How long are they on each day?

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@Katherine This is suppose to be a temporary tank. I didn't want to pay for a UV filter it it wasn't hurting anything.

@JettsPapa As long as it isn't going to hurt anything, I'm not going to bother getting a timer for this tank. It is on the 12 hour timer with the other lights. None of them are very strong lights. Just clip ons and floor lamps from around the house. I move them a round a lot so the plants don't shade each other much.

@xXInkedPhoenixX It is a temporary tank, so It will be taken down before I care as long as the green doesn't hurt the fish

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On 4/22/2023 at 9:12 AM, KittenFishMom said:

@Comradovich  I like this idea. Any idea where I can get some live daphnia?

Ebay, Aquabid, Amazon, or FlipAquatics.com are all places I've seen some for sale. Assuming the weather near you is amenable, you could also scout the nearest ditch or pond. It's about the season for the spring hatch from overwintering cysts. I forget how high temps have to be before daphnia start to appear.

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I have had better luck hatching eggs/cysts in another container, then moving over the adults. They do not like a lot of surface agitation, and I've heard that small bubbles from like an airstone can mess with their shells. I'm going to be restarting a colony myself once temps heat up enough that someone can ship me live specimens. SLC keeps dipping down into the low 30s at night, so I'm waiting a bit longer 'til I'm sure even a delayed package won't result in DOAs. I've tried the greenwater farms cysts, but they never seem to do as well for me as the live ones.

Bottom line: Start with a well-seasoned jar or 5 gallon bucket, then move into the tank... preferably when there's enough of them that the fish can't make too big of a dent before the Daphnia get established. Daphnia breed fairly prolifically once you start a culture. They seem to do okay with a sponge filter once they're established.

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@Comradovich I found the green water farm eggs/cysts box. I'm looking into that because I have it. I could put some green water from the tank in a clean white bucket, or a clear drink dispenser. I'm not sure of a good place to put it with warmth and light. The cats like to drink out of and top over all containers smaller than a 10 gallon tank. 

How  would I "season the jar"? Add a used filter media? used substrate? snails?  Maybe hard scape with algae on it? (not sure I have any) add some fish food?  

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I'll be buying off of one of those locations I told you about above for live adults. Haven't picked which yet as my temps are not ideal for shipping over the Rockies. If I could find a location in say LA or San Diego, then I'd pick that right away. That's straight up the I-15 corridor to Salt Lake City, so the only cold they'd be exposed to is the warehouse here while they wait to get on the delivery truck. So far, I'm not seeing an inexpensive So Cal option, though.

Brine Shrimp: This fall the Great Salt Lake was at historic lows, (as in never in recorded history has it gotten that low). We were on track to be the most polluted city in the US, because all that exposed lake bed is subject to a lot of winds coming off the West Desert and the Salt Flats. That salt has some selenium and other heavy metals. We then got hit by the tail end of those Atmospheric Rivers hitting California and causing floods. So, we were in Severe Drought, and then all this water showed up to fill soil that was not prepared to hold any of it. So the lake refilled a bit, and got a bunch of soil from upstream. Problem is that while all of those minerals are back in solution, the solution doesn't have the same concentration as before. A lot of bacteria, archaea and protozoa that might ordinarily fix some of those heavy metals went dormant or died. Wind removed some lighter elements, and we've got new materials from upstream. Before you go thinking I'm overreacting, I did an internship for my law degree at a firm here trying to argue that the lake was basically three separate entities. This is because the Transcontinental Railroad at Promontory Point is supported by two trestles that cross the lake, which makes three separate salinity zones out of the three bays in the lake. You can catch Cutthroat Trout in Bear River Bay at the Wildlife Refuge normally, for instance. Gilbert Bay in the center is where Morton Salt operates, and also where your brine shrimping industry sits. Gunnison Bay that terminates in the Salt Flats is so salty that nothing lives in it. We have one of the largest white pelican nesting grounds on Gunnison Island there, because there's a natural toxic moat around the place so the coyotes and feral cat colonies can't get in. Only real use for Gunnison Bay is mineral harvesting by evaporating the lake water. Now, since the water was basically gone, the wind was picking up all those minerals from Gunnison Bay and depositing them in the other two zones.

Bottom line: I don't trust the wild brine shrimp this year until I've seen some test data. I don't recommend live BBS from here until I've seen that data.

Daphnia: I'm not going to wild gather this spring because of the aforementioned Atmospheric Rivers. We're getting houses sliding into canyons in Draper. Landslide risk is high. I don't trust the land, and I don't trust the pools on the land. Nearest two canyons are both under a few feet of snow, too. One of those canyon creeks passes my block, and we now have sandbagging stations set up. Shipping is the reliable option right now. I'm poo-pooing green water farms because their winter shipments tend not to have a great hatch rate. If it was summer, I'd give it a go. Yours sound like they've been inside awhile, so it's worth a shot.

To season a jar, take a filter media from the tank and squeeze. If you have a small sponge filter, you can add it to the jar provided it makes large bubbles. If not and you can't adjust the airline to it, maybe disconnect the airline and leave both in the jar. Filter probably still has some bacterial growth area, and the bare airline should make large enough bubbles to not inflate or agitate daphnia. In a tank, we shoot for small bubbles to maximize gas exchange. In a jar, large bubbles have some gas exchange, but also keep the surface rolling enough that mosquito larvae don't set up shop. A little used aquarium substrate can also go a long way. Ideally you'd want this system running awhile before trying to add stuff, but since we're in a hurry, go with the usual quick start methods you'd use to set up a new tank. Jars are basically nano-aquariums on a smaller scale. You gotta be a little more vigilant on your water parameters, but daphnia aren't fish. They'll survive quite a lot of parameters that would kill fish. Main idea is to set up somewhere relatively stable and quiet for them to hatch out. Once they get going, then you can move them over.

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Most of the time greenwater will handle itself.... meaning, even in @modified lung's testing it's very difficult to keep it stable from what I have seen.  It might just be best to wait it out and let things run their course.  it's a great food source for fry.  My best advice for you.... go buy some amano shrimp and try to hatch them out.  You feed them greenwater and add salt, move it to a smaller tank and top off with green water.  BOOM.  Sell them for a little profit or you have a good amount of the single best algae eater!  It's not an easy feat, but it's a fun challenge that greenwater helps with!

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I studied international soil science at Cornell. I get your drift and about salts and water and wind and water drawing stuff from underground and irrigation histories etc. Yup it is a mess.

I can do an ACO sponge filter with no air stone, just an open air hose. I have a nano. I just put through RR.

I have used media sponges that I dropped into a tank when I replaced the sponge with a new one. No carbon or chemicals, just sponge or floss or batting. Whenever I squeeze a used media filter sponge, it comes out pretty black for the driftwood and the snail muck. I tend to squeeze and rinse them often to keep the water flowing well. Do you think I should put the black liquid from squeezing, or put the sponge in after I have squeezed and rinsed it?

I also have fritz "7" and "700" and SeaChem Pristine and Stability to help get a cycle going.

I am not in a huge rush. The green tank is not a display tank, just a short term grow out tank until the breeder/seller has room for the fish. If the green water was bad for the fish, then I needed to do something to prevent it from hurting the fish.  The weather has been cloudy and rainy for a few days, and the green is not as thick as it was, so once the tree leafs out, the window will be shaded until just at sun set. and the fish may be gone by then. Not sure if the fish or the green will go first.  Then I will give the empty tank to the breeder to thank her for taking the fry. I will still have other fish, so it might be fun to get a daphnia jar or 2 or 3 going while I have green water for them. 

Thanks so much for your help.

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On 4/23/2023 at 11:03 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

go buy some amano shrimp and try to hatch them out. 

@nabokovfan87  It does sounds like a fun project.

What is it I'm buying?  Adult Amano shrimp or young amano shrimp or amano shrimp eggs? And how much/many would I buy and from who/what would I buy? What would I use to hatch them out? a tank with salty freshwater or brackish or something else? I have aquarium salt and Instant Ocean salt and kosher salt. I was going to use the kosher salt to soak the mud out of the dragon stone.  Now I am worried the dragon stone might hurt the kuhli loach, I'm not sure where to use it. Maybe in the neocardia shrimp tank?

Should I put the amano shrimp in with the fish or the neo shrimp? (fish = neon tetras, hillstream loaches, Kuhli loaches and male corys. oh and lots of snails)

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On 4/23/2023 at 8:40 PM, KittenFishMom said:

Should I put the amano shrimp in with the fish or the neo shrimp?

they can go with anything.  The fry (zoeys) from the shrimp need brackish water to grow.

 

On 4/23/2023 at 8:40 PM, KittenFishMom said:

Now I am worried the dragon stone might hurt the kuhli loach, I'm not sure where to use it. Maybe in the neocardia shrimp tank?

dragon stone is VERY good for neos because the shrimplets can go inside and hide.  It's like a little cave system for them to molt and feel protected.  The loaches also will not have any issues with the rock, but I understand because they will go in there.

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@nabokovfan87  I need to do some research on how to get the amanos to produce zoeys in the right kind of salt water, and take it from there.

When my kuhli loach had spots on it, many people asked if there was anything sharp in the tank. The dragon stones look like it would have lots of sharp edges.  You say the kuhli loaches will go into the dragon stone but not have issues with it. But others said kuhli loaches have issues with sharp things. I'm kind of confused. Is dragon stone safe for kuhli loaches? 

Another question, are kuhli loaches safe for neo shrimp zoeys?

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On 4/23/2023 at 9:07 PM, KittenFishMom said:

I need to do some research on how to get the amanos to produce zoeys in the right kind of salt water, and take it from there.

You don't need anything. They will act like any other freshwater species.  You take the female with eggs, put her into some other container, she spawns out the zoeys (releases them) and then you go ahead and add salt and greenwater (food for them) over the first couple of weeks.  In time, they end up growing into fully developed shrimp with tails and exoskeletons and then you can move them back to freshwater.
 

 

On 4/23/2023 at 9:07 PM, KittenFishMom said:

Another question, are kuhli loaches safe for neo shrimp zoeys?

Definitely not.

Edit: It's actually fun to sit there at night, with a flashlight and watch the little zoeys go and swim around the tank.  They swim towards the light and you can collect them in a pipette/baster.

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On 4/23/2023 at 10:44 PM, Comradovich said:

You gotta be a little more vigilant on your water parameters, but daphnia aren't fish. They'll survive quite a lot of parameters that would kill fish. Main idea is to set up somewhere relatively stable and quiet for them to hatch out. Once they get going, then you can move them over.

@Comradovich I'm a little confused. It is my specialty, My superpower, really at this time of night. 

I have to be vigilant about water parms, but not as vigilant as I would be with fish?

I set up something small and stable to hatch the eggs and them move them to the seasoned jar with the air hose? Or I start them in the jar with the air and move them to something else?

@nabokovfan87 What is a good source to buy Amano shrimp?

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