There is something killing all my fish

[iwanttostayanonymous 92074]

So I bought a 15 gallon fluval flex fresh water kit a few months ago. I bought it from a local mom and pop store. A staff member told me to buy bacteria in a bottle to cycle my tank. So I did and they told me if I wanted to I could come back in a week or two to buy fish. I came back to the store two weeks after setting it up and putting the bacteria in. I bought 8 snake skin guppies and two dalmatian mollies. I got home put them in the tank and went about my day. The next morning one of my guppies died. At this point I didn’t think much of it because I was thinking that the fish could have died of stress. The dead fish was laying belly up at the bottom of the tank. A few days pass and one of my mollies wasn’t swimming right. He was kind of swimming sideways and didn’t seem like he was trying to swim. He died in the night in the same belly up position. This kept happened over the next 2-3 weeks killing one fish at a time. When I say I tried everything I mean it. I tried changing their diet, feeding peas, testing water everyday, frequent water changes, medication, aquarium salt, and buying not one but two mineral balancing liquids for water. I had kept buying replacements after replacements of fish. I had bought 27 freaking fish and only 3 survived. They were 2 yellow guppies and one red guppy. I let the 3 guppies stay in the tank for about 4 weeks before buying new fish. I got these fish from pet smart after being scared to go back the the mom and pop store. I bought 2 male blue guppies, 2 male Mickey Mouse platies, and one female Mickey Mouse Platy. I put them all in the tank where they lived happily for about 4-5 weeks. Yesterday I found one of my blue guppies dead in the belly up potion. Today one of my yellow guppies is having trouble swimming. I really don’t know what’s going on. My water parameters are right where they need to be. My water temperature is at 78°F. I don’t know if it’s dropsy, swim bladder disease, if they have parasites, ammonia stress, or something else. I don’t want to be the reason my fish all die again. Please can someone help me?

[Hally M.]

This has happened many times to me when I first purchased guppies. Guppies In my opinion are just so sensitive especially when their over bred, their genes can weaken. Cory from aquarium coops YouTube channel has a lot of videos regarding guppy care which may help. The swimming sideways or shaking you’re referring too is called shimmying. It happens when livebearers aren’t getting the water hardness they desire. I’m curious to what supplements your using to help raise the hardness. Do you have Kh and Gh water testers as well? What’s your Ph? 
 

lastly were you experiencing cloudy water at all? Near when you purchased your guppies or currently? Bottled bacteria may help start the cycling of beneficial bacteria but sometimes it can take a lot longer than 2 weeks. When the tanks not cycled and fish are introduced early it can cause a bacterial bloom and that also can play a part in making your fish sick. 

[iwanttostayanonymous 92074]

I do have a Gh tester but not a Kh tester. My Gh is currently at 25 and my pH is a 6.8. I did and do have cloudy water. But why is this all happening now? I have had the all fish for well over 4 weeks, plus the three guppies I had before I got the new 5 fish. I wanted my tank to be well cycled before I got any more fish and I thought it was when I got my new fish. Should I buy the bottled bacteria now?

[TOtrees]

It sounds like you’re having a really rough go of it. Fish should not be considered disposable pets and you obviously realize that. Asking for help can be hard but it’s the right thing to do.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of possible reasons your fish might be dying. To complicate things it’s probably not only one reason but a combination. in a situation like this, you have to focus on simplifying things to eliminate as many unknowns as you can. A lot of what you read can be thrown out the window for a more practical approach. I would recommend a really really simple set up with substrate and a few fake decorations. A filter or sponge filter to move water and ensure good aeration will be required, but you really don’t need to worry about the tank being cycled. As long as you’re changing 10 or 20% water per day, using a dechlorinator and not over feeding, water quality should be OK this way without filters or filter media being cycled.

You could even do without a heater, not that you need to but it’s a way to eliminate yet another variable. Or swap the heater out for another one (or just unplug the one your have). The goal is just to make sure that you don’t have one of those wonky heaters that is putting stray current into the water.

if you have guopies, you could add 1 tablespoon of salt per 3 gallons of tank water. I don’t usually recommend it as a long-term or maintenance practice, but in the situation it might help.

Here’s a totally different direction you might prefer. Just let the tank run for say 4 to 6 weeks with no fish. Maybe just a couple snails and some live plants if you want. Keep/maintain it the same way you would with a tank that has fish in it. 

Final comment/recommendation: if you compare the risks versus benefits of over versus underfeeding overfeeding carries significantly more risk. And it’s something that almost every new keeper does. Once you’ve had fish for a while, you’ll be shocked at how little food they need to survive. newly arrived fish can easily go for a week without eating, if they’re healthy. not that you wanna starve them, I’m just trying to emphasize how little food they need.

[Patrick_G]

Can you post all the water parameters you’re currently able to test for? Include parameters for your tap water also. 
That should help diagnose any obvious problems. 

[Hally M.]

For livebearers they require a lot of hardness/minerals. Your Ph is too acidic and should be around 7.8 and up. To fix this you can add crushes coral into the filter or substrate and that will raise the Ph. 🙂

 

Cloudy water seems to just be due to an improper cycling. I agree with Patrick, include your current water parameters. To test if a tank is cycled you can see if the ammonia is transitioning into the nitrites and than lastly transition into the nitrates. If you have a lot of ammonia and nitrite but no nitrate. That can mean it hasn’t cycled yet. Cycling can take up to a month or more sometimes. I also feel like if the waste load is large it may take even longer just to build up on that beneficial bacteria. I’m getting déjà vu 🤪 I feel like I’ve had to go through this exact same scenario with my guppies in the past so I relate to your frustrations. Good like you’re on the right track and you’re doing great!

For livebearers they require a lot of hardness/minerals. Your Ph is too acidic and should be around 7.8 and up. To fix this you can add crushes coral into the filter or substrate and that will raise the Ph. 🙂

 

Cloudy water seems to just be due to an improper cycling. I agree with Patrick, include your current water parameters. To test if a tank is cycled you can see if the ammonia is transitioning into the nitrites and than lastly transition into the nitrates. If you have a lot of ammonia and nitrite but no nitrate. That can mean it hasn’t cycled yet. Cycling can take up to a month or more sometimes. I also feel like if the waste load is large it may take even longer just to build up on that beneficial bacteria. I’m getting déjà vu 🤪 I feel like I’ve had to go through this exact same scenario with my guppies in the past so I relate to your frustrations. Good like you’re on the right track and you’re doing great!

[Hally M.]

In similar terms, bump up that water hardness, crushed coral helps with Ph and aquarium coops wonder she’ll can help add minerals and harden your water. There are other alternatives you can buy as well.
 

And second maybe add another bottle of bacteria and work on cycling that tank. I would recommend daily water changes to make sure ammonia doesn’t get high. If you have live plants that would help get rid of some of the ammonia and nitrites. You got this!! 🙂

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:06 PM, iwanttostayanonymous 92074 said:

Please can someone help me?

So there's a few things going on. 

Step 1.  Is the tank actually cycled?  Meaning, you got the tank, then weeks later went back and got bacteria and fish.  Did the tank get a chance to run before adding fish?  Did you test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrates at all? 

Let's take a giant step back and try to set things up for success.

 

On 11/26/2022 at 2:36 PM, iwanttostayanonymous 92074 said:

I did and do have cloudy water. But why is this all happening now? I have had the all fish for well over 4 weeks, plus the three guppies I had before I got the new 5 fish.

Initially, from the above and the way it's described, my assumption is you didn't start "cycling" fully until you added the fish.  Cloudy water 99.9% of the time is bacterial bloom, which means you're starting to get the bacteria growing in volume large enough to handle the fish load.  Then you added more fish, which again triggers a higher demand for bacteria in the tank.    It's not a lost cause or anything like that, but based on what your explaining, that's probably what happened.

On 11/26/2022 at 2:36 PM, iwanttostayanonymous 92074 said:

I wanted my tank to be well cycled before I got any more fish and I thought it was when I got my new fish. Should I buy the bottled bacteria now?

You can always buy and use the bottled bacteria whenever you need to.  Even a seasoned tank can have a cycle crash and you might need to dose some in.  I have some in the fridge right now because I had a tank that has been running for ~9-12 months with 25+ fish and I changed things.  The tank had 3 filters, I removed one that was used for water polishing which resulted in the bacteria load dropping on the tank, cloudy water.  After 5-6 weeks of clouds water, I added the bacteria in a bottle stuff to help get things finally cleared up.  It happens.  It's not a good / bad thing to use and if you're having cycling issues, bad water parameters, cloudy water, and fish stress, then it wouldn't hurt at all to add that stuff in.  A big dose on day 1. then the normal dose on days 2-7.

 

[iwanttostayanonymous 92074]

It has been a productive couple of hours. 
To respond to TOtrees, I have/had a really simple set up in my tank including gravel, 3 fake plants, and a fake cave like decoration. I specifically did this to make it easier for myself which is really coming in handy right about now. I took out all the fake plants but left the cave because I want to keep a VERY close eye on my fish but still giving them a little place to hide if they want to. I do have a sponge filter. I will now do 10-20% water changes a day and I have reduced the amount of food I give my fish by 50%. I have also unplugged my heater (for now) and have been monitoring the temperature of the water. I have a few questions about the salt. For my tank I would need to put in 5 tablespoons of salt. That seems like a lot of salt to put in. Is it safe? If it’s safe can I put it in all at once or do I have to spend it out? Do I need to do more/change more water/water changes to manage the salt? I also have 3 platies in the tank, do I still put in the same amount?

To respond to Patrick_G:

Tap water: GH 25, Nitrate 0, Nitrite 0, Cl2 0, Total Alkalinity 80, KH 80, PH 6.6, Ammonia 0

Water before I put pH booster: GH 25, Nitrate 0, Nitrite 0, Cl2 0, Total Alkalinity 80, KH 120, PH 6.8, Ammonia 0

After this I left for a few hours for dinner and to buy a pH booster from a pet store on my way home.

After pH booster: GH 25, Nitrate 0, Nitrite 0, Cl2 0, Total alkalinity 300, KH 180, PH 8.0, AMMONIA 3!!!!😱😨

After seeing the very dangerous amount of ammonia tank I did a 50% water change.

After water change: GH 25, Nitrate 0, Nitrite 0, Cl2 0, Total alkalinity 180, KH 80, PH 7.6, ammonia 0.5 

After this I have came to the horrifying conclusion that I “f”ed up. WHAT IN THE WORLD WAS I THINKING?!?!? I CANT JUST CHANGE THE WATER PARAMETERS JUST LIKE THAT. ALL THE STRESS THE FISH WERE PROBABLY HAVING. At this point I stopped, turned off the lights hoping the fish would get leased stressed out if they thought it was time to sleep. I was also very stressed at the time.

To respond to Hally M. I went to the store while I was out but could not find any crushed coral so I bought a pH increaser instead. Clearly according to my water parameters my tank is not cycled and I will be buying the beneficial bacteria tomorrow.

To respond to nabokovfan87, my tank is not cycled. I think you walking me through what could/probably is wrong with my tank really helped me have a better understanding of it all. 
I just want to say I really really appreciate everyone helping me. I have been really stressed out and been struggling with my fish tank. With everyone helping me, I can soon have a healthy tank of happy fish. When I do I owe it all to you. Thanks so much 

 

[Colu]

As your seeing ammonia i would test daily and do daily 50% water change and add a double dose of prime to help detoxify any ammonia till it constantly stays at zero  you can also add some aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 5 gallons that will help with  ammonia toxicity crushed coral will gradually increase your pH and KH I would definitely some to your filter @iwanttostayanonymous 92074

[nabokovfan87]

 

On 11/26/2022 at 9:47 PM, iwanttostayanonymous 92074 said:

To respond to nabokovfan87, my tank is not cycled. I think you walking me through what could/probably is wrong with my tank really helped me have a better understanding of it all. 
I just want to say I really really appreciate everyone helping me. I have been really stressed out and been struggling with my fish tank. With everyone helping me, I can soon have a healthy tank of happy fish. When I do I owe it all to you. Thanks so much 

We're all here to help! Hopefully things improve for you and you start to see the tank stabilize.

On 11/26/2022 at 9:47 PM, iwanttostayanonymous 92074 said:

I have a few questions about the salt. For my tank I would need to put in 5 tablespoons of salt. That seems like a lot of salt to put in. Is it safe? If it’s safe can I put it in all at once or do I have to spend it out? Do I need to do more/change more water/water changes to manage the salt? I also have 3 platies in the tank, do I still put in the same amount?

Aquarium salt for me, I dose 1/2 cup per 10G

Doesn't change and sensitive species tend to do ok with it too.

[TOtrees]

Some of the things you’re describing are impossible, so I want to highlight them, because I think it points to areas where you need to improve your understanding. I say this to help, not criticize. 🙂

For example, you measured ammonia at 3, then it was 0.5 after a water change. That’s pretty much impossible, unless you literally changed some thing like 80% of the water. To be more clear, assuming you’re not adding any from the water source, the percent of water you change will determine how much the concentration or amount of something in the tank is lowered. If ammonia is at 3, can you change 25% of the water, it should drop to 0.75 (which is 1/4 of 3). The fact that yours dropped much more than that suggests that maybe you’re not correctly measuring concentration.

Crushed coral: one of the reasons we like it so much is that it acts gradually over time and doesn’t have to be added and remeasured over and over. You don’t have to add more with every water change, which you will with your pH booster. We refer to this as “chasing parameters“, and it’s kind of setting yourself up for failure. Actually handle a broad range of parameters. A few tenths below 7 won’t be a problem for them for short or medium duration. To put it another way, I don’t see the pH you’re describing causing the deaths that you’re seeing.

if you don’t have one already, I recommend you get a dechlorinator that neutralizes ammonia and use it daily. My favourite is prime by seachem. Fritz has a similar product, as does hikari. Using a product like this will protect your fish from ammonia that occurs in an uncycled tank, as long as it’s not crazy high. In combination with water changes in the 10-25% range daily, you can get past the issue of your tank not being cycled.

@nabokovfan87’s recommended salt rate is higher than mine, but still appropriate. For a 10 gallon tank you would use 3.5 tbsp at my rate, or 8 tbsp at @nabokovfan87’s rate (4 tbsp being 1/4 cup). I would put the salt in a bit at a time, or dissolve it in your water change water and add it that way. I would maintain the salt in the aquarium for 3 to 4 weeks and see how things go. Every time you change water, you need to add salt to the new water, so you will use quite a lot over that time. Check back with us of you want or need help with the math.