HELP NEEDED!! Internal parasites?

[bettas]

Hello, everyone. I am new to the forum. I have a question about my betta:

Initially, I thought she was having external parasites as I noticed some brown raised dots on her skin, so I started dosing with paraguard. She would become really lethargic when dosed with paraguard, so I stopped.

At the same time time, she had also been pooping weird (short, thin white poops). This has been happening for around a week. However, her activity levels & appetite have not changed. Today, she has almost spiralized poop (in the last picture).

I have used API general cure (1/2 dose) without removing my sponge filter (there is no activated carbon in it). She seems to have become even more lethargic. Can I use another medication or should I continue with this?

Attached below are the images & thanks for your help

Housing:

How many gallons is your tank? 10
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What temperature is your tank? 75
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? None

Food:
What food brand do you use? Fluval Bug Bites, Hikari Micropellets, Freeze-dried bloodworms
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets mostly
Freeze-dried? Yes, but rarely
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? 2-3 Fluval Bug Bites, 8 Hikari micropellets

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? 1x/week
What percentage of water did you change? 25%
What is the source of your water? Tap water
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Vacuum substrate
What additives do you use other than conditioner? What brand of conditioner? Top-Fin Water Conditioner

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water before the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
pH: Will check
Hardness (GH): Do not know (using API freshwater master kit)
Alkalinity (KH): Do not know (using API freshwater master kit)

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? 1 week ago
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? Yes, white thin sting-like poop attached
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? Yes, pooping more frequently with weird poops
Is your Betta still eating? Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? Not yet. I have ordered API general cure
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? No
How long have you owned your Betta? January 2021
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? No

Edited November 5, 2022 by bettas

[CJs Aquatics]

Hard to diagnose, I would assume based on everything listed parasite of some kind. If I read this correctly you noticed the paraguard had an adverse effect on the fishes condition? What has worked for me dealing with illness is a few things, perhaps worth looking into:

1. Water changes even when parameters are stable just to make sure your water is extra clean, plus if it’s parasites some need to be vacuumed up after they are passed

2. Make sure the dosing on the meds is correct, too much or too little has effected my fish in the past

3. sometimes different meds work better, I swear by the trio but have had 2 instances where the illness proved quite resistant and I ended up clearing it with a different med from a different brand 

4. reduce stressors like lighting and temp fluctuations

5. this is my favorite, but it’s highly debated, medicated food, for me it was specifically (Dr. Bassleers) brand that cleared illness and at least appeared way easier on the fish. There’s many brands of it though, even some natural options perhaps worth some research

what I would do in this same situation, I would quarantine the fish in the appropriate dosage of the med trio, feed live baby brine shrimp if at all or other live food, and change water after 7-14 days, perhaps it would work for you or something else might this is just what I would do personally, I’m sorry your fish is sick and I do hope he gets better and that something works 

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/5/2022 at 12:45 PM, bettas said:

At the same time time, she had also been pooping weird (short, thin white poops). This has been happening for around a week. However, her activity levels & appetite have not changed. Today, she has almost spiralized poop (in the last picture).

You are going to want to treat with general cure or paracleanse (same stuff under different labels) and that would help with the white stringy internal worms. 

There is a few tips / guidelines so let me grab that video.... You will need to treat a minimum of 3 times.  Salt is also highly recommended, so please get some aquarium salt to have on hand if you don't.

On 11/5/2022 at 12:45 PM, bettas said:

What temperature is your tank? 75

Please go ahead and verify this is the best temp for the betta.  From what I have seen and others have mentioned I think you want to be in the 78-81 range.   It's something to look into and this would help the fish because it reduces one variable of stress on it's immune system.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/betta-fish-care-guide

Quote

Do Bettas Need a Heater?

Yes, they do. Betta fish prefer temperatures around 80°F and tend to be much more active when kept in warmer waters. In the United States, where room temperatures are commonly between 67°F to 69°F, a betta fish without a heater is quite lethargic and may even become sick from the constant stress of being too cold. For recommendations on heaters, read our article How to Choose the Right Aquarium Heater.

 

[bettas]

@CJs Aquatics I change 25%/week on a regular basis. I have never skipped week from the past two months. What is the med trio? Did the medicated food you used work for parasites? She is in a tank all by herself, so would I still have to quarantine?

[bettas]

@nabokovfan87 From the video, I got that paracleanse is the same as API general cure. Can I use salt + API general cure at the same time? I only turned down the temperature to 75, as I thought she might have internal parasites. 

@Colu Do you have any advice on this situation? I've seen your posts around here, and I found them to be very helpful, so I was wondering if you'd know anything about these parasites?

Edited November 6, 2022 by bettas

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/5/2022 at 6:20 PM, bettas said:

From the video, I got that paracleanse is the same as API general cure. Can I use salt + API general cure at the same time? I only turned down the temperature to 75, as I thought she might have internal parasites. 

yes you can use salt at the same time.  I would set the temp for the fish and keep it there. The only common tips about temp and disease treatments is that some fish will be more prone to disease if the temp is too high (above their range) as well as when treating for Ich specifically you want to raise temp to ensure that it completes it's lifecycle and is killed by the meds.

[Colu]

Have you notice any rapid breathing hanging near the surface listlessness weight Loss flashing trying to eat food and spitting it out also the brown spots could be some type of encapsulated nematode  @bettas

Edited November 6, 2022 by Colu

[CJs Aquatics]

Med trio is 1. Fritz Maracyn, 2. Fritz Paracleanse, 3. Aquarium solutions ick x, the coop has many posts and videos about this method of quarantine and it’s results 

to answer your second question the food I used worked for parasites pretty fast, not in a betta but in guppies

and the 3rd question, if she’s by herself you could quarantine just the tank she’s in but will have to water change out or remove the meds somehow when the medicating is over, in my experience all meds listed have been bacterial colony, plant, snail, invert and overall tank safe. Remember if you have multiple tanks to try not to use the same equipment used in the sick tank unless thoroughly sanitized so the “sick” doesn’t have a chance to transfer, it is often advisable to treat and medicate in separate tanks or containers I will add…

[bettas]

@Colu Sorry for the late response. She doesn't have any rapid breathing, as far as I've noticed. But she sits at the bottom of the tank for majority of the time.

Are nematodes worm-shaped? Or can they also be tiny little dots? I think I have copepods in my tank that are attached onto my betta, unless nematodes and copepods are the same thing. How can I get rid of them?

Edited November 6, 2022 by bettas

[Colu]

Some types of nematode worms use copepods as an intermediate host and can present as brown spots during encapsulated stage of they life cycle other types of nematode worms are  camullanus worms are internal red worms paracleanse doesn't treatment nematode worms for that you want to treat with levamisole active ingredient in Expel p or flubendazole active ingredient in absolute wormer plus what I would do is a course of paracleanse follow up with a course of Expel in food feeding a small amount twice a day for 7 days do another course of paracleanse  then repeat the Expel p in two weeks that will cover most types 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Colu

[bettas]

@Colu So, we need to use levamisole & paracleanse treatment afterwards? 

Is levamisole basically just Expel P or flubendazole?

[Colu]

On 11/8/2022 at 2:58 AM, bettas said:

@Colu So, we need to use levamisole & paracleanse treatment afterwards? 

Is levamisole basically just Expel P or flubendazole?

Levamisole is the active ingredient in Expel p and flubendazole is the active ingredient in absolute wormer plus yes I would recommend treating with Expel p in food and follow up with paracleanse 

[bettas]

On 11/7/2022 at 10:54 PM, Colu said:

Levamisole is the active ingredient in Expel p and flubendazole is the active ingredient in absolute wormer plus yes I would recommend treating with Expel p in food and follow up with paracleanse 

Thank you so much. I have not had time to respond to your messages, but this is very helpful! I have made the recipe; however, the food is all mush. Do you know how I can get it back into pellet-form? It's sinking too fast and even after adding garlic gaurd, she's not eating the food. Can I directly add the anchor worm plus or paracleanse to the water?

Edited November 13, 2022 by bettas

[Colu]

On 11/13/2022 at 5:14 AM, bettas said:

Thank you so much. I have not had time to respond to your messages, but this is very helpful! I have made the recipe; however, the food is all mush. Do you know how I can get it back into pellet-form? It's sinking too fast and even after adding garlic gaurd, she's not eating the food. Can I directly add the anchor worm plus or paracleanse to the water?

It's meant to be a medicated slurry try Target feeding her get a tiny amount on the end of a dropper if she not eating the medicated food after a couple of days then I would treat the tank 

[bettas]

On 11/13/2022 at 6:33 AM, Colu said:

It's meant to be a medicated slurry try Target feeding her get a tiny amount on the end of a dropper if she not eating the medicated food after a couple of days then I would treat the tank 

Thank you. I am using a syringe to drop the food in the tank for the next few days. If she does not eat the food, would I treat the tank with Paracleanse or Absolute Wormer Plus?

[Colu]

On 11/14/2022 at 7:45 PM, bettas said:

Thank you. I am using a syringe to drop the food in the tank for the next few days. If she does not eat the food, would I treat the tank with Paracleanse or Absolute Wormer Plus?

If she not eating I would follow up with absolute wormer plus if she not taking the medicated food 

[bettas]

On 11/14/2022 at 2:19 PM, Colu said:

If she not eating I would follow up with absolute wormer plus if she not taking the medicated food 

Thanks. Sorry for the very late response. She was doing well with medicated food for a couple of weeks, but now she’s starting to behave in the same way. I dosed the absolute wormer plus into the water but I accidentally added a double dose. Should I do a water change? 
 

Also, I’m not 100% sure if it’s a double dose since my tank is only 10 gallons & I was supposed to add 1/10th of a gram, which is really hard to measure. 

[Colu]

On 12/22/2022 at 6:08 PM, bettas said:

Thanks. Sorry for the very late response. She was doing well with medicated food for a couple of weeks, but now she’s starting to behave in the same way. I dosed the absolute wormer plus into the water but I accidentally added a double dose. Should I do a water change? 
 

Also, I’m not 100% sure if it’s a double dose since my tank is only 10 gallons & I was supposed to add 1/10th of a gram, which is really hard to measure. 

If you think you have over dosed I would do a 50% water change to bing the level down to a safe amount 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Colu

[bettas]

On 12/22/2022 at 12:55 PM, Colu said:

If you think you have over dosed I would do a 50% water change to bing the level down to a safe amount 

Hello, I did a 50% water change but there seems to be no improvement. What else can I do? I’m not sure if it’s just parasites that’s going on now. 

She’s doing the same thing by sitting on the floor for majority of the time. 

[Colu]

What I would do is another 50% water change and redose the correct amount of wormer plus and add some aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 3 gallons that will aid Gill function and add essential electrolytes to give more energy 

[bettas]

On 12/24/2022 at 5:09 AM, Colu said:

What I would do is another 50% water change and redose the correct amount of wormer plus and add some aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 3 gallons that will aid Gill function and add essential electrolytes to give more energy 

Hello! Sorry for the irregular & late responses. I have done the water changes & added wormer plus. Her appetite has increased, but I saw the white stringy poop again yesterday. I'm not sure if it's because the parasites are going away or if she's been infected again. I have ordered the aquarium salt. 

I am doing regular water changes & parameters are normal, but the copepod/nematode population is still blooming in my tank. I see some algae growth in the tank, and I want to scrape it off. However, I heard that by scraping it off, it will only make it worse. Any advice on how to get rid of these copepods? @Colu

Edited January 6 by bettas

[anewbie]

On 1/4/2023 at 6:04 PM, bettas said:

Hello! Sorry for the irregular & late responses. I have done the water changes & added wormer plus. Her appetite has increased, but I saw the white stringy poop again yesterday. I'm not sure if it's because the parasites are going away or if she's been infected again. I have ordered the aquarium salt. 

I am doing regular water changes & parameters are normal, but the copepod/nematode population is still blooming in my tank. I see some algae growth in the tank, and I want to scrape it off. However, I heard that by scraping it off, it will only make it worse. Any advice on how to get rid of these copepods?

For future reference you can use table salt without iodine or other additives. No need for 'aquarium' salt.

[bettas]

On 1/4/2023 at 6:23 PM, anewbie said:

For future reference you can use table salt without iodine or other additives. No need for 'aquarium' salt.

Thanks, will do

[Colu]

On 1/5/2023 at 12:04 AM, bettas said:

Any advice on how to get rid of these copepods? @Colu

I have never had copepods in my tank so am not sure how you would get rid of them

[bettas]

On 1/6/2023 at 10:58 AM, Colu said:

I have never had copepods in my tank so am not sure how you would get rid of them

Should I continue to do the same treatment with Absolute wormer plus & aquarium salt until there is improvement? Or can I do paracleanse + salt?

Edited January 6 by bettas