Fish Death Reasons

[Damo.Lo]

Hey All

Ive been thinking for a few weeks now as I’ve had several fish die for what I thought was spontaneous reasons. 
 

long story short I bought 6 cardinal Tetras and after a few days I would wake up and one would be dead. This happened over the course of a week and had 4 fish replaced by the LFS as my waters would come back 0-0-0 and now have 5… 

they have been stable ever since…

Last Week I buy 6 Female Guppy’s to join the Chaos of owning fish factories 😂 but since purchase 3 have died… at this point I’m thinking somethings up with the LFS quality (it’s never the fish owners fault 🫣) 

After a long chat with them we diagnosed it was a faulty heater (could hear the filaments rattling and half the heater wasn’t hot when plugged in.) so purchased a new one and they will Replace 2 of the 3 lady’s.. so we assume the reasons for deaths it got colder over night and the fluctuating temperatures stressed them out.

sooo after that long winded story I’ll get to my question.

what is the “hierarchy” of fish death I.e most likely to least likely, any curve balls people have encountered? I know this is probably asking the same as how longs a piece of string.

 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

I do the quarantine trio first and observe for a week. Then normally use test strips before adding new fish, before and after water changes to get an idea of what is going on in the water. I'll also use water condition to treat the volume of the tank just before refilling with fresh water.

My opinion is

1. Pre-existing condition of the individual fish,

2. PH or temperature shock,

3. unknowns introduced into the water unintentionally (hand lotions, soaps, etc),

4.quick water quality spikes (ammonia, chlorine/chlorimine and nitrite especially),

5.stray electicity,

6.stress from either tankmates or something they can see external to the tank.

7. I've had co2 dump into a tank overnight but that was not a mystery and my DIY setup immediately went away. 

I'm not personally convinced temperature swings cause deaths but could be a contributor to death by weakening their immune system. Especially if too cold or too hot too quickly. I imagine anywhere where there is water and wild fish has rain, sun, vegetation, and clouds causing some level of temperature and parameter fluctuations all the time.

[Guppysnail]

Stress is the known leading cause of fish death both the actual stress and the fact that it lowers their immunity and opens them to a host of opportunistic problems. Stress includes relocating fish to your home from the store. Add on all the other possibilities @mountaintoppufferkeeper mentioned and that is why new fish perish much more often than existing fish. 

[Damo.Lo]

On 9/1/2022 at 9:49 PM, Pepere said:

Do you treat them with quarantine meds when you get them?

No, I’m only 2-3 months into fish keeping so I’m learning the hard way still I’ve got a quarantine tank cycling now waiting to get the filter matured… 

On 9/1/2022 at 11:13 PM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said:

I do the quarantine trio first and observe for a week. Then normally use test strips before adding new fish, before and after water changes to get an idea of what is going on in the water. I'll also use water condition to treat the volume of the tank just before refilling with fresh water.

My opinion is

1. Pre-existing condition of the individual fish,

2. PH or temperature shock,

3. unknowns introduced into the water unintentionally (hand lotions, soaps, etc),

4.quick water quality spikes (ammonia, chlorine/chlorimine and nitrite especially),

5.stray electicity,

6.stress from either tankmates or something they can see external to the tank.

7. I've had co2 dump into a tank overnight but that was not a mystery and my DIY setup immediately went away. 

I'm not personally convinced temperature swings cause deaths but could be a contributor to death by weakening their immune system. Especially if too cold or too hot too quickly. I imagine anywhere where there is water and wild fish has rain, sun, vegetation, and clouds causing some level of temperature and parameter fluctuations all the time.

@mountaintoppufferkeeper I definitely agree with what you say but I have to cling to something other why’s I really have noo idea 😂but moving forward I’m going to try the quarantine route for sure, waking up not knowing if it’s a full roster gets pretty annoying.

[Damo.Lo]

On 9/2/2022 at 12:10 AM, Guppysnail said:

Stress is the known leading cause of fish death both the actual stress and the fact that it lowers their immunity and opens them to a host of opportunistic problems. Stress includes relocating fish to your home from the store. Add on all the other possibilities @mountaintoppufferkeeper mentioned and that is why new fish perish much more often than existing fish. 

I’m definitely leaning towards stress related death (immune system) but just trying to narrow down the reason it reasons…

[modified lung]

Stress is definitely the #1 cause. I'd say the top causes for stress that lead to disease or death are:

Stressful events (shipping, equipment failure, ...)

Weak genetics (over sensitivity to stress, bullied by other fish, out competed for food, ...)

Water quality (quick changes, long term exposure to slightly toxic conditions, wrong conditions, ...)

Poor fish care (exposing your fish to Nickelback)

But the worst is when there's multiple stressors at the same time. IMO that's the reason for most spontaneous deaths.

[Guppysnail]

On 9/1/2022 at 6:50 PM, modified lung said:

exposing your fish to Nickelback

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[modified lung]

On 9/1/2022 at 3:56 PM, Guppysnail said:

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

It's problem not often talked about in the aquarium hobby. That changes today.

[Damo.Lo]

On 9/2/2022 at 8:50 AM, modified lung said:

Poor fish care (exposing your fish to Nickelback)

But the worst is when there's multiple stressors at the same time. IMO that's the reason for most spontaneous deaths.

@modified lung 😂 I had to read that twice I was like surely there’s no nickel in the water 🤦🏻. 
i think that was the issue with mine is transport/ then temperature.

 

 

I’m leaning quite heavy to the heater being the issue because it’s been about 12 hours and all fish are more active then I’ve ever seen them a thread awhile back I started my Glowlight Tetras where not that active and Sat? Stood? Near the back but they haven’t stopped moving since the new heater has been installed. 
 

this has probably been asked a million times but how do you keep a quarantine tank always ready? Is it just having a filter ready that’s well seasoned (kept in another tank) or do you all keep it up and running with a tank mate to keep the bacteria alive? 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

 

On 9/1/2022 at 7:39 PM, Damo.Lo said:

@modified lung 😂 I had to read that twice I was like surely there’s no nickel in the water 🤦🏻. 
i think that was the issue with mine is transport/ then temperature.

 

 

I’m leaning quite heavy to the heater being the issue because it’s been about 12 hours and all fish are more active then I’ve ever seen them a thread awhile back I started my Glowlight Tetras where not that active and Sat? Stood? Near the back but they haven’t stopped moving since the new heater has been installed. 
 

this has probably been asked a million times but how do you keep a quarantine tank always ready? Is it just having a filter ready that’s well seasoned (kept in another tank) or do you all keep it up and running with a tank mate to keep the bacteria alive? 

Sounds like stray current could have been the issue based off your observations. I have extra filter media bio rings etc going in my filters that i could use to run a quarantine tank when needed. The tank itself can be nearly anything of sufficient size.

I have food grade polycarbonate if I need it and set up a box filter using that media and fresh polyfil but again anything of sufficient size would work as qt for me

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 9/1/2022 at 2:19 PM, Damo.Lo said:

No, I’m only 2-3 months into fish keeping so I’m learning the hard way still I’ve got a quarantine tank cycling now waiting to get the filter matured… 

@mountaintoppufferkeeper I definitely agree with what you say but I have to cling to something other why’s I really have noo idea 😂but moving forward I’m going to try the quarantine route for sure, waking up not knowing if it’s a full roster gets pretty annoying.

Yeah I'm with you there.

We don't always know the journey they took prior to coming into our care or what if any internal problems they might have Both problems could cause random deaths. I just shoot for the best possible conditions and care I can give them and roll with the learning experiences I occasionally go through. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by mountaintoppufferkeeper

[Colu]

I would say a combination of stress poor water quality and poor diet weakening  fish's immune system leaving them susceptible to disease are the main causes of fish loss

[PineSong]

On 9/1/2022 at 9:39 PM, Damo.Lo said:

 

this has probably been asked a million times but how do you keep a quarantine tank always ready? Is it just having a filter ready that’s well seasoned (kept in another tank) or do you all keep it up and running with a tank mate to keep the bacteria alive? 

You don’t have to keep one up and running all the time if you keep a seasoned filter on hand for when you do need to set one up. 

I am cautious about putting filters that have been in QT right back into my established tanks though,so for me it’s a one way street and I use nano sponge filters (my QT is a 10g) and don’t put them back in my tank after they’ve been with new store bought fish. I dry them out for a few months before reusing them. 
 

Rachel O’Leary has a great video about setting up QT in plastic Rubbermaid tubs instead of tanks, which is a way of preventing yourself from just leaving the QT set up and turning it into a “Just One More”tank:-) 

Another QT issue is that Paracleanse can impact your cycle (per the manufacturer) so you need to be prepared to test water and do water changes or use Prime to detoxify when you’re using it in QT, not rely on having a seasoned filter and skip testing. 

[Damo.Lo]

@PineSong Sorry on the late replay, cheers for your answer I will have a look into that 

[Damo.Lo]

NSFW photo attached 

I am really baffled now, you definitely feel lost sometimes in this hobby, I Have and odd OCD where i need even numbers of fish so i got one more Cardinal, one more Glow light and 2 guppies where replaced by the LFS on good faith after the heater issue.

all the fish where loving the new heater the most movement all my fish have ever had.

BUT.. I woke up to one dead Cardinal I'm really stumped now... do Cardinal have the same mass breeding issue as Neon's? it as against the inlet to the filter so I'm not sure if it caused the bulge on its side but there was a slight protrusion on one side when I had a look.

[Scapexghost]

Ammonia is probably the leading cause of death for pet fish, whether its an uncycled tank, undersized tank, an overfeeding, overcleaning, ammonia will kill fish and fast. Next is probably ich. I think Cory said once that it was rare to bring in tetras that didn't have ich. Most chain stores and a lot of mom&pop stores aren't treating there fish, and by the time the hobbiest gets them its probably too late. Chlorine and bacterial infection are also big killers. Internal parasites are also pretty common. If you by a fish from a chain store and it dies seemingly out of nowhere after a few months, thats why.

If you "know what you are doing," you aren't going to lose to many fish to ammonia or chlorine, and if you have a decent local fish store, you aren't gonna lose to many to ich either. Meds will take out the more common diseases.

I competent hobbiest will lose most of there fish to organ failure, accidents, or mistakes. Leaving a lid open and a fish jumps out, two fish you thought might be compatible aren't, heater breaking, power outage, etc. 

This is excluding fry. If we include fry, a vast majority of fish die from genetic problems and canabalism.