Plans for my 20 long freshwater

[Old man from scene 3]

Hello all, I'd like to pose a question. I have a 20 long tank that will be planted and aquascaped (my first attempt). I plan to start with some neocaridina shrimp (perhaps 10) and 6 dwarf corys to get the tank cycle established without creating too much bio load up front. Gradually I plan to add as much as 15 - 20 neon tetras (six or so at a time) monitoring tank parameters and giving time between each addition. Running a seachem tidal 35 otb filter, stingray 2 light and will be using eco complete substrate with a fine black sand layer on top (perhaps an inch). Looking for opinions/advice as to whether or not this will be too many fish. I'll be doing regular water changes as often as the tank requires until it stabalizes. I've had many tanks, both fresh and salt, in the past but it's been approx 30 yrs. I'm amazed by the technology advances! Thanks in advance!

-omfs3

[_Eric_]

Definitely not too many fish especially if you have plants.  
 

If you want to be safer, id jump up filter size to the 55 or add a sponge filter to get a little more biofilter/ flow through the tank.

[anitstuk]

Definitely gotta remember the Neon Tetra Disease and how it'll affect your tetras. 

[Old man from scene 3]

On 8/29/2022 at 8:32 PM, _Eric_ said:

Definitely not too many fish especially if you have plants.  
 

If you want to be safer, id jump up filter size to the 55 or add a sponge filter to get a little more biofilter/ flow through the tank.

Thanks for the reply _Eric_. I was planning on having a small sponge filter in the tank that I can use in my quarantine tank when bringing in new fish.

On 8/29/2022 at 8:36 PM, anitstuk said:

Definitely gotta remember the Neon Tetra Disease and how it'll affect your tetras. 

Appreciate the advice anitstuk.

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/29/2022 at 5:04 PM, Old man from scene 3 said:

Hello all, I'd like to pose a question. I have a 20 long tank that will be planted and aquascaped (my first attempt). I plan to start with some neocaridina shrimp (perhaps 10) and 6 dwarf corys to get the tank cycle established without creating too much bio load up front. Gradually I plan to add as much as 15 - 20 neon tetras (six or so at a time) monitoring tank parameters and giving time between each addition. Running a seachem tidal 35 otb filter, stingray 2 light and will be using eco complete substrate with a fine black sand layer on top (perhaps an inch). Looking for opinions/advice as to whether or not this will be too many fish. I'll be doing regular water changes as often as the tank requires until it stabalizes. I've had many tanks, both fresh and salt, in the past but it's been approx 30 yrs. I'm amazed by the technology advances! Thanks in advance!

Hello! Welcome to the forum.

A few things to review and this all might be something where you already have it and can check it out, or potentially choose something more appropriate.

-Substrate: I would be very careful with catfish, particular corydoras, and eco complete.  It is, from some reports, literally just lava rock. Depending how much it's tumbled in the bag or at the manufacturing facility you may have some pretty sharp fine edges.  Capping it with sand is a great way to go, but eco complete is something where it absorbs nutrients over time and holds them to be available for the plants. It has a high CEC value, which is useful, but up front it might not be what you're expecting in terms of plant value.  Capping it may or may not reduce the CEC viability.  Depending on what your own water parameters are, something like amazonia, stratum, etc. might be of better use here if you're specifically looking for a plant substrate that is beneficial to the plants themselves.  I can dig up the substrate article I found that talks through a bunch of options if you wish.   "black sand" is a pretty vague term, please be careful with coal slag / BDBS if you use this as well, it's not a known recipe in terms of what could be in the bag and might be full of metal or other things the fish cannot handle. I recently tried it and had a lot of issues. I removed it a few days later. Others have reported success and very minimal issues.  Out bags of "sand" and substrate looked very, very different but were the same brand / label.  When it comes to "black substrate" I'd recommend something inert like gravel or rocks.  Fine particle size is better for the corydoras if they do decide to burrow a bit (it helps hold the food above the substrate and they don't struggle to dig as much).  They will dig, but just a better overall fish and substrate relationship if it's a finer particle size.  For my tank right now I am using caribsea sand and then in my other tank (both with corydoras) I am using seachem flourite black.

-In terms of the filter, if you haven't purchased it, I would recommend the Tidal 55 over the tidal 35.  If the flow is too much you can simply turn it down.  There are some issues with the tidal and I'll go ahead and link a thread for you to check out and ask any questions you have here, in that thread, or in a DM.  I do recommend modding that filter.  If you don't want to go that route, something like the aqueon quietflow or marineland penguin pro filters are equivalent and wouldn't require modification. 
 

 

Finally, if you do plan to run the tidal 35 I would recommend having an airstone in the tank as well for surface scum (the skimmer doesn't work too well) and to just boost up the flow / oxygenation.  I highly recommend the ziss airstones that you can adjust.

[Jennifer V]

Just a side note, neocaridina shrimp like a seasoned tank with lots of BB rather than a new tank that's still cycling. I'm sure some people have had luck adding them quickly, but I've tried that twice with unpleasant results. It was only until I let my new tank cycle for a few months that I've had a lot of success. 

[Old man from scene 3]

On 8/30/2022 at 1:21 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Hello! Welcome to the forum.

A few things to review and this all might be something where you already have it and can check it out, or potentially choose something more appropriate.

-Substrate: I would be very careful with catfish, particular corydoras, and eco complete.  It is, from some reports, literally just lava rock. Depending how much it's tumbled in the bag or at the manufacturing facility you may have some pretty sharp fine edges.  Capping it with sand is a great way to go, but eco complete is something where it absorbs nutrients over time and holds them to be available for the plants. It has a high CEC value, which is useful, but up front it might not be what you're expecting in terms of plant value.  Capping it may or may not reduce the CEC viability.  Depending on what your own water parameters are, something like amazonia, stratum, etc. might be of better use here if you're specifically looking for a plant substrate that is beneficial to the plants themselves.  I can dig up the substrate article I found that talks through a bunch of options if you wish.   "black sand" is a pretty vague term, please be careful with coal slag / BDBS if you use this as well, it's not a known recipe in terms of what could be in the bag and might be full of metal or other things the fish cannot handle. I recently tried it and had a lot of issues. I removed it a few days later. Others have reported success and very minimal issues.  Out bags of "sand" and substrate looked very, very different but were the same brand / label.  When it comes to "black substrate" I'd recommend something inert like gravel or rocks.  Fine particle size is better for the corydoras if they do decide to burrow a bit (it helps hold the food above the substrate and they don't struggle to dig as much).  They will dig, but just a better overall fish and substrate relationship if it's a finer particle size.  For my tank right now I am using caribsea sand and then in my other tank (both with corydoras) I am using seachem flourite black.

-In terms of the filter, if you haven't purchased it, I would recommend the Tidal 55 over the tidal 35.  If the flow is too much you can simply turn it down.  There are some issues with the tidal and I'll go ahead and link a thread for you to check out and ask any questions you have here, in that thread, or in a DM.  I do recommend modding that filter.  If you don't want to go that route, something like the aqueon quietflow or marineland penguin pro filters are equivalent and wouldn't require modification. 
 

Finally, if you do plan to run the tidal 35 I would recommend having an airstone in the tank as well for surface scum (the skimmer doesn't work too well) and to just boost up the flow / oxygenation.  I highly recommend the ziss airstones that you can adjust.

Very much appreciate the time and thought put into your response nabokovfan87. I'm using the Imagitarium aquatic substrate (black) which I believe is quartz based. I've already purchased nearly everything I need so will make do with what I've got currently (for now at least). I'll watch your modification videos a few times to get it seated in my elder brain, lol. I also will be using a small sponge filter in the main tank that I will use to aerate my quarantine tank when needed hoping that the sponge will be more or less cycled and give me a good headstart.

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/30/2022 at 10:27 AM, Old man from scene 3 said:

I'm using the Imagitarium aquatic substrate (black) which I believe is quartz based.

I have used that stuff too, works fine.  I had some False Julii's on it, which will nestle down in the substrate a bit more than the pygmy corydoras would.  Just keep an eye out if you start to see the paint removed, I never had issues with it, but others have reported that happening on some batches.
 

On 8/30/2022 at 10:27 AM, Old man from scene 3 said:

I've already purchased nearly everything I need so will make do with what I've got currently (for now at least). I'll watch your modification videos a few times to get it seated in my elder brain, lol. I also will be using a small sponge filter in the main tank that I will use to aerate my quarantine tank when needed hoping that the sponge will be more or less cycled and give me a good headstart.

I just added a video I found for a long time photo I reference for the Tidal 35! So that's cool.  As always, if you have any questions please feel free to reach out.  Best of luck with the tank, I'm excited to see it once you have stuff all setup.

[Old man from scene 3]

First aquascape effort. This is about two weeks in. Just plants and a few Nerites.

[PineSong]

That looks like a great start, it’s good to see all those plants. What are you planning to add to the tank?

[Old man from scene 3]

On 9/14/2022 at 11:16 PM, PineSong said:

That looks like a great start, it’s good to see all those plants. What are you planning to add to the tank?

Thank you PineSong. I plan to start with some Pygmy Corys and Otocinclus cats. Gradually add a school of Neon Tetras and thinking some Bloody Mary Neos.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Old man from scene 3
Species name correction

[Old man from scene 3]

Thought I'd give an update photo since it's been almost 2 1/2 months since setup. This is a little more of an in close shot so you can see the baby shrimp on the repashy ball in front of the cholla wood (They look orange). I have two sets of juvenile shrimp, as well as, 3 more berried females - all Bloody Mary Neos. 7 pygmy corys, 7 otos and 14 neon tetras. Evertone is thankfully happy and healthy thus far.

[TheBlueBeetle]

Looks great! A 20 long is one of my favorite tanks. Nice use of the space.

[MattyM]

I have a stingray 2 light - it's very bright, and gave me some algae headaches until my background plants (mostly Pogostemon Stellatus Octopus) grew enough to shade the tank. 

[Old man from scene 3]

On 11/7/2022 at 11:59 AM, TheBlueBeetle said:

Looks great! A 20 long is one of my favorite tanks. Nice use of the space.

Thank you. Lots of options with the 20L. I'm with you on that.

On 11/7/2022 at 12:23 PM, MattyM said:

I have a stingray 2 light - it's very bright, and gave me some algae headaches until my background plants (mostly Pogostemon Stellatus Octopus) grew enough to shade the tank. 

I had a minor problem early too. Between the Otos, shrimp and the Salvinia I have floating, my problem went away. I love that Octopus too. I have some growing in both tanks - great at absorbing the nitrites too!

[Rita]

I have a planted 20 gal long which was my first tank. it's now two years old and currently have 1 betta, 8 ember tetras, 8 amino shrimp, 4 nerites, one mystery snail and one rabbit snail. Along the way I tried panda corydoras that didn't work out, and I tried yellow shrimp that didn't work out. I Just bought 6 more ember tetras to add to the tank. 

[Flynn Naysmith]

I have a planted 20g long with a breeding pair of Honey gouramis. I can even raise fry in the same tank as the parents with the amount of plants I have

[Old man from scene 3]

On 11/7/2022 at 11:15 PM, Rita said:

I have a planted 20 gal long which was my first tank. it's now two years old and currently have 1 betta, 8 ember tetras, 8 amino shrimp, 4 nerites, one mystery snail and one rabbit snail. Along the way I tried panda corydoras that didn't work out, and I tried yellow shrimp that didn't work out. I Just bought 6 more ember tetras to add to the tank. 

Those tetras make a nice display in your tank I'm sure! What type of Betta do you have? I have a 10 g with a 1/2 moon mustard. I'm thinking of a adding a schooling fish to the mix to dilute his attention from the zebra otos and two gobys he seems to have taken a keen interest in.

On 11/9/2022 at 1:02 AM, Flynn Naysmith said:

I have a planted 20g long with a breeding pair of Honey gouramis. I can even raise fry in the same tank as the parents with the amount of plants I have

Don't you just love plants. So many benefits to a tank!

[Rita]

On 11/9/2022 at 5:19 AM, Old man from scene 3 said:

Those tetras make a nice display in your tank I'm sure! What type of Betta do you have? I have a 10 g with a 1/2 moon mustard. I'm thinking of a adding a schooling fish to the mix to dilute his attention from the zebra otos and two gobys he seems to have taken a keen interest in.

So I got this guy from petsmart and he was only labeled as butterfly male… not really sure what tail type

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Just wanted to pipe in regarding "overstocking" a tank. I have around 70 Otocinclus in a 20 gallon tall. It has lots of plants, they are bottom feeders so they're rather messy. I run two air driven filters and an HOB. I have no water parameter issues. 

If the fish are healthy, water stable, and they have plenty of room to move, the question of "overstocked" is really not about the numbers. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Wooooowwww how lovely he is! 😍    @Rita

I found this:

Source: adelphi.edu

It's neat how you hung the coconut.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Old man from scene 3]

On 11/9/2022 at 9:09 AM, Rita said:

So I got this guy from petsmart and he was only labeled as butterfly male… not really sure what tail type

Beautiful planted tank and beautiful Betta!

[Old man from scene 3]

On 11/9/2022 at 9:18 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Just wanted to pipe in regarding "overstocking" a tank. I have around 70 Otocinclus in a 20 gallon tall. It has lots of plants, they are bottom feeders so they're rather messy. I run two air driven filters and an HOB. I have no water parameter issues. 

If the fish are healthy, water stable, and they have plenty of room to move, the question of "overstocked" is really not about the numbers. 

That's quite a few Otos! Are you breeding them? My understanding was that most are wild caught due to difficulty with tank breeding.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Old man from scene 3 yes, not on purpose though. Most of them are now tank bred from my original 7. I have 20 more new ones recently. I document my accidental breeding here:

The Accidental Oto Keeper

I've had recent proof that my tank bred Otos breed in other peoples' tanks- my friend who I gave some to recently found a baby. 🙂 

[Old man from scene 3]

Loved reading about your experience with them! I have 3, what I was told are "zebra" otos that look just like your tigers. I'm guessing just another adjective for them?

Another Betta shot and one of my Blue Stiphodon Goby, as well as, a more recent wider shot of the 20L with the 10g below.