Substrate help.

[Gregs_Gal]

Hello, everyone!

I have a question and have searched this site and Googled it as well but I can't really find an answer. Can I use something like Eco Complete or Seachem Flourite safely with my corydoras? I currently have pool filter sand in my aquariums but I also have several plants that need a good plant substrate. I have seen a couple of videos where it looked like they were using Eco Complete (or equivalent) with Cory's. I'm aware that sand is the best thing for them and don't care for the layered look. I also don't really want the hassle of it as well. I don't want to hurt my Cory's but I also don't want my plants to suffer either. I'm currently using Easy Green and Easy Root Tabs to help supplement the plants. Thank you for any help and advice you can give me. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Gregs_Gal

[Patrick_G]

I think something like Fluval Stratum might be a better choice. You could even use a layer of Stratum with a layer of sand over it. 

I have some Pygmy Corydoras in a tank with Eco-Complete and I haven’t seen any damage to their barbels, but I think most folks would advise against using such a rough substrate with Corydoras. 

[lefty o]

they dont live on perfect smooth sand in the wild. as long as the substrate isnt full of sharp edges, they will be fine.

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/15/2022 at 8:48 PM, Gregs_Gal said:

I currently have pool filter sand in my aquariums but I also have several plants that need a good plant substrate.

What plants?

On 8/15/2022 at 8:48 PM, Gregs_Gal said:

Eco Complete

This is basically lava rock. Not recommended.

On 8/15/2022 at 8:48 PM, Gregs_Gal said:

Seachem Flourite

Mine are on this substrate. You can see a few videos, photos, etc. of the substrate in the journal in my signature.  Please feel free to ask any questions in either thread.

As for Flourite for a planted tank, yes it's recommended, but it's something that stores nutrients over time, it doesn't start with them.  In either case you'd want to use root tabs to feed the plants.  I've also had corys on fluval stratum, very soft, no issues.  I have had them on gravel, no issues (as long as it is not sharp edges).  I've had them on a few varieties of sand.  On BDBS, definitely not recommended, and I have had them on the Imagitarium "sand" which is literally just small gravel bits painted with black acrylic paint.

On 8/15/2022 at 8:48 PM, Gregs_Gal said:

I'm currently using Easy Green and Easy Root Tabs to help supplement the plants.

I think you're doing perfectly fine with exactly what you're doing now.  We can talk more about any issues you might be experiencing once we know what plants you're using!  Please share any photos you'd like to regarding issues or to show off your setup. 

On 8/15/2022 at 9:01 PM, Patrick_G said:

I think something like Fluval Stratum might be a better choice. You could even use a layer of Stratum with a layer of sand over it. 

Works pretty well!  Just make sure the sand cap is actually thick enough otherwise it'll just mix up.  That's the mistake I made.  With a lot of soil based substrates you want to also verify they aren't leeching ammonia into the water when you first add them.  Because Corydoras are closest to the substrate level, they tend to get the brunt of the issues when that happens 😞 .

[Guppysnail]

Sharp edges Eco will not hurt the corydora if maintained properly.  That is a myth.  They will adjust how they dig and just not dig as deep for yummies. You would not continue jamming your hand in something that hurts unless you were starving…neither will they.  A food dish is really fun for them to keep the bulk of food from sinking and reduce waste. Cory’s videos of wild collecting show how rough and sharp heir natural habitat is as @lefty o mentioned. My albinos did fine in eco including spawning. Though I hate eco. Very hard to plant in and keep plants anchored as well as just as awful to keep clean as sand in my experience. I totally feel the not wanting the sand hassle.  I know a lot of other impatient folks like myself have stopped using eco because it is just hard to maintain and plant. Others love it and have great success. I keep all my Cory on big box gravel. They breed fine on that to. 
 

 

[Gregs_Gal]

On 8/16/2022 at 12:26 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

What plants?

Hi, I have crypts, rosette swords, Bocopa, water sprite and Cardinalis (also java fern, anubias and buce on rocks). My tanks are a work in progress as I'm still looking for the "right" pieces of driftwood and some rocks for my other tank. 🙂 I know that some of the plants will use the water column for nutrients but the crypts and swords use nutrients from the roots (and some plants use both). Thank you for your help and I will avoid the Eco Complete. I don't think I want to deal with Stratum. If it's as soft as people have said then it sounds like quite a mess to me and I don't want to cap it. 

 

On 8/16/2022 at 3:25 AM, Guppysnail said:

Sharp edges Eco will not hurt the corydora if maintained properly.  That is a myth.  They will adjust how they dig and just not dig as deep for yummies. You would not continue jamming your hand in something that hurts unless you were starving…neither will they.  A food dish is really fun for them to keep the bulk of food from sinking and reduce waste. Cory’s videos of wild collecting show how rough and sharp heir natural habitat is as @lefty o mentioned. My albinos did fine in eco including spawning. Though I hate eco. Very hard to plant in and keep plants anchored as well as just as awful to keep clean as sand in my experience. I totally feel the not wanting the sand hassle.  I know a lot of other impatient folks like myself have stopped using eco because it is just hard to maintain and plant. Others love it and have great success. I keep all my Cory on big box gravel. They breed fine on that to. 
 

 

Thanks for the info! I never thought about how they live in the wild. Good idea about a food dish. I think I will look for one that will work. Thanks

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/16/2022 at 7:00 AM, Gregs_Gal said:

Hi, I have crypts, rosette swords, Bocopa, water sprite and Cardinalis (also java fern, anubias and buce on rocks). My tanks are a work in progress as I'm still looking for the "right" pieces of driftwood and some rocks for my other tank. 🙂 I know that some of the plants will use the water column for nutrients but the crypts and swords use nutrients from the roots (and some plants use both). Thank you for your help and I will avoid the Eco Complete. I don't think I want to deal with Stratum. If it's as soft as people have said then it sounds like quite a mess to me and I don't want to cap it. 

Stratum can be light, but I never found it to be messy. Light just meaning that it can get pushed around in higher flow tanks with a strong filter.

The plants you have seem great and you have a mix of fast and slow growing plants.

Sounds like a great tank 🙂

[Guppysnail]

On 8/16/2022 at 10:00 AM, Gregs_Gal said:

 

Thanks for the info! I never thought about how they live in the wild. Good idea about a food dish. I think I will look for one that will work. Thanks

I use a $1 terra cotta planter liner.  These are Pygmy but I use them in with pandas and plecos and snails. 

 

[Gregs_Gal]

Great idea! Cheaper is always better in my book. Saves money so I can buy more fish! 😂😂 I love the pygmy Cory's. So  cute!

Edited August 16, 2022 by Gregs_Gal

[Gregs_Gal]

On 8/16/2022 at 7:04 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Stratum can be light, but I never found it to be messy. Light just meaning that it can get pushed around in higher flow tanks with a strong filter.

The plants you have seem great and you have a mix of fast and slow growing plants.

Sounds like a great tank 🙂

I thought that Stratum had to be capped to prevent it from leaching stuff into the water if there are fish right away? I definitely wanted a mix of fast and slow growing plants but wasn't sure if I had the right balance. Thank you!

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/16/2022 at 7:16 AM, Gregs_Gal said:

I thought that Stratum had to be capped to prevent it from leaching stuff into the water if there are fish right away?

I rinsed mine, I didn't have any issues.  When I used stratum I had a 55G full of sand to start with.  I broke down that tank (with fish and everything) and then I moved that tank out of position.  I added in a 75G and added the new substrate, capped it with the sand from the 55G tank.  I added all the plants and hardscape, then the fish.  As soon as I turned on the filter I didn't have enough sand and the flow just blew it to the side and the stratum was exposed.  I didn't have any issues with a cycle crash, algae bloom, leeching, etc.

There is stuff like ADA Amazonia that definitely leeches.  There is contrasoil I believe also does the same thing.  Off the top of my head that's all I can think of, but there's probably a list I can find.  🙂

Edit:  Here is a really good article.  A little further down the post it goes one by one and lists pro/con for each substrate and discusses which one have a risk of leeching.  Stratum is listed as one that has a potential to leech ammonia, although less (meaning not as much or as long) as something like Amazonia.

https://rootedtank.com/planted-tank-substrate/#Substrates_that_contain_macro_and_micronutrients

Edited August 16, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Gregs_Gal]

On 8/16/2022 at 8:01 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I rinsed mine, I didn't have any issues.  When I used stratum I had a 55G full of sand to start with.  I broke down that tank (with fish and everything) and then I moved that tank out of position.  I added in a 75G and added the new substrate, capped it with the sand from the 55G tank.  I added all the plants and hardscape, then the fish.  As soon as I turned on the filter I didn't have enough sand and the flow just blew it to the side and the stratum was exposed.  I didn't have any issues with a cycle crash, algae bloom, leeching, etc.

There is stuff like ADA Amazonia that definitely leeches.  There is contrasoil I believe also does the same thing.  Off the top of my head that's all I can think of, but there's probably a list I can find.  🙂

Edit:  Here is a really good article.  A little further down the post it goes one by one and lists pro/con for each substrate and discusses which one have a risk of leeching.  Stratum is listed as one that has a potential to leech ammonia, although less (meaning not as much or as long) as something like Amazonia.

https://rootedtank.com/planted-tank-substrate/#Substrates_that_contain_macro_and_micronutrients

Thank you so much! I guess I didn't have the right verbiage when I searched for substrates. I will definitely be reading that article! Again thank you for your time and help! It's much appreciated!

[Gregs_Gal]

Can I change to Stratum and leave my fish and snails in the tank? Or does it create an ammonia spike? Thanks!

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/16/2022 at 9:17 AM, Gregs_Gal said:

Can I change to Stratum and leave my fish and snails in the tank? Or does it create an ammonia spike? Thanks!

Best thing to do it is to buy the substrate, rinse it gently, and then fill up the bucket most of the way with water.  Add an airstone, cover it so the floor doesn't get soaked from splasting (but leave a place for air to escape), wait 24 hours, and then test for ammonia.  If it's 0, then you're fine.

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Gregs_Gal]

On 8/16/2022 at 2:57 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Best thing to do it is to buy the substrate, rinse it gently, and then fill up the bucket most of the way with water.  Add an airstone, cover it so the floor doesn't get soaked from splasting (but leave a place for air to escape), wait 24 hours, and then test for ammonia.  If it's 0, then you're fine.

 

Great idea! Do i just rinse it again if I do get an ammonia reading? Thank you! 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Gregs_Gal

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/16/2022 at 4:31 PM, Gregs_Gal said:

Do i just rinse it again if I do get an ammonia reading?

You would want to have a proper filter to cycle the ammonia. Based on reading. 0.5 vs higher values, you'd want to treat things differently.  Once you have the value, we can go from there.