Starting moderately rare/uncommon fish breeding project/business

[SandBkeeper]

On 7/24/2022 at 7:35 AM, AquaHobbyist123 said:

UPDATED PRODUCT IDEA LIST:

Purple Moscow/Blue Moscow Guppy

Green Moscow Guppy

Blue Rim Betta

Koi Galaxy Betta

Hellboy Betta

Bloody Mary Shrimp

Blue Dream Shrimp

Orange Pumpkin Shrimp

Yellow Neocaridina

Gold Mystery Snail

Blue Mystery Snail

Feeder Ramshorn Snails

MTS

 

   The smaller list allows me to focus my attention more on individual species rather than having to start out with 5-6 species.

 

I'm jealous!! That's almost the exact list of fish/inverts I want to breed someday. Good luck with your project!

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 7/24/2022 at 7:35 AM, AquaHobbyist123 said:

UPDATED PRODUCT IDEA LIST:

Purple Moscow/Blue Moscow Guppy

Green Moscow Guppy

Blue Rim Betta

Koi Galaxy Betta

Hellboy Betta

Bloody Mary Shrimp

Blue Dream Shrimp

Orange Pumpkin Shrimp

Yellow Neocaridina

Gold Mystery Snail

Blue Mystery Snail

Feeder Ramshorn Snails

MTS

 

   The smaller list allows me to focus my attention more on individual species rather than having to start out with 5-6 species.

 

Shrimps and snails should be easier 1 main aquarium and another for backup just in Case it crash.

With 2 family of guppy you'll need about 2-4 aquarium each. Breeder, grow out, and growoutto be sold. You can always do 1 aquarium but you'll risk crash the system and losing them all, and you'll get more fish if you keep moving the fry out. 

Betta are cool and if you get good at breeding them and raising fry up you'll have alot.  Anywhere from 50-200+ ....so imagine when it's time to cup them. You'll floor your market really quick.

I'm not trying to discouraged you, just making sure you are ready

Edited July 26, 2022 by WhitecloudDynasty

[AquaHobbyist123]

On 7/26/2022 at 2:47 AM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Shrimps and snails should be easier 1 main aquarium and another for backup just in Case it crash.

With 2 family of guppy you'll need about 2-4 aquarium each. Breeder, grow out, and growoutto be sold. You can always do 1 aquarium but you'll risk crash the system and losing them all, and you'll get more fish if you keep moving the fry out. 

Betta are cool and if you get good at breeding them and raising fry up you'll have alot.  Anywhere from 50-200+ ....so imagine when it's time to cup them. You'll floor your market really quick.

I'm not trying to discouraged you, just making sure you are ready

  Right now I am planning what aquariums I should use in my fishroom and how many. I believe I will have a 40 gallon breeder main aquarium for each guppy strain, with a 10-15 gallon breeding/birthing tank  and 1-2 20 gallon grow-out tanks.

 

Shrimp and snails will be bred in 15-gallon tanks.

 

P.S: In the early stages, I was actually planning on breeding white clouds! Thanks for the advice btw.

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 7/26/2022 at 8:17 AM, AquaHobbyist123 said:

  Right now I am planning what aquariums I should use in my fishroom and how many. I believe I will have a 40 gallon breeder main aquarium for each guppy strain, with a 10-15 gallon breeding/birthing tank  and 1-2 20 gallon grow-out tanks.

 

Shrimp and snails will be bred in 15-gallon tanks.

 

P.S: In the early stages, I was actually planning on breeding white clouds! Thanks for the advice btw.

Take my advice white cloud don't make money lol

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/5/2022 at 9:45 AM, AquaHobbyist123 said:

Let me know what you think!

I think there's a lot of information that might be helpful for you.  Specifically something like Goliad farms content in their blog, Greg Sage and his articles, and there's a ton of other resources.   Here's another that a lot of people might not have seen and it was such an insightful conversation about the hobby and the "farming side" of things.
 

I wish you the best of luck!

[Brandon p]

On 7/26/2022 at 10:59 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Take my advice white cloud don't make money lol

 

On 7/26/2022 at 8:17 AM, AquaHobbyist123 said:

  Right now I am planning what aquariums I should use in my fishroom and how many. I believe I will have a 40 gallon breeder main aquarium for each guppy strain, with a 10-15 gallon breeding/birthing tank  and 1-2 20 gallon grow-out tanks.

 

Shrimp and snails will be bred in 15-gallon tanks.

 

P.S: In the early stages, I was actually planning on breeding white clouds! Thanks for the advice btw.

I don’t think that will be anywhere near enough tanks to do what you want. 

[AquaHobbyist123]

On 7/26/2022 at 10:59 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Take my advice white cloud don't make money lol

That's why I dropped that idea for breeding for profit, but I do want to breed them personally sometime.

[Brandon p]

I think if you breed for fun overall and profit comes you will be happier and probably more successful. This thread has gotten long and I don’t know how much experience you have breeding each of these. Some are east like the snails, but the size area you need to produce a enough to make profit is a lot. LFS are often ready and willing to take mystery snails. Prices are low. I breed blue mystery snails and in these area there is some demand as snails in tanks as cleaners but most go for food for snail eaters. They would rather sell those than ramshorns because they don’t want anything do with them because once they have them in there filtration systems( many use bank or one massive system for tanks. The smaller the store the more likely to have shared filtration. On some of the hobbyist web sites like eBay you can sell them but eBay is algorithm driven so you can sell items and the more you sell the more eyes are sent to you store. Even paying for eyes doesn’t make a big deal. I think you can do it and it seems you understand that it takes times to learn an not get lucky breeding. Even when you know what you are doing it’s still a little luck.  All the best 

[Emory]

I would mix in a rare variety of plecos too! Good luck!

[TOtrees]

This is a great topic, and it's long read to catch up on it. I don't want to unnecessarily repeat what's already been said. 

I think I'm about 3-4 years ahead of you @AquaHobbyist123 comparing when I got started to now (so I think I have something to share). I'm definitely a hobbyist not a business, but my sales support my hobby fairly well, and have actually allowed it to expand (dart frogs, so much fun!!).

- Find your niche. What will you do that no one else is doing, that will allow you to move a product when you want/need to? You might be really successful at breeding and care, but if no one buys your product, it's a double whammy. First, no income. Second, you have more fish to keep until you can move them. 

- Be flexible. You list might change (a lot) over the months and years. Be prepared to get out of something you thought was going to be successful if it turns out not to be. 

- Aim for one or both of high-price items, or high-volume items. Fish that sell for low unit price and not much volume will not return much for you. In my experience, high-price items include shelldwellers, fancy plecos, dwarf cichlids, designer guppies. Items I've been able to do in high volume include furcata rainbows and cherry shrimp. 

- Selling to stores is very different from selling online. I can't say I've ever used aquabid, but I make a few sales via kijiji and our local toronto area online forum. The store sales do WAY better for me, because of the volume.

- I've been successful selling to just one store, by building a strong relationship with them. I sell them items they don't have (or have low inventory), and that will consistently move. Stores don't want to buy 50 of something, then still have them 2 months later. I scout their location often, to check on their inventory levels of the things I have for sale. I've come right out and asked the manager what is his buy price for some things, so I know how my items compare. Example is bloody mary shrimps. Most buyers won't know the difference between bloody mary and any other red cherry shrimp, except they are colorful. But this store can't get them from their wholesaler for less than ~$4 each after shipping, so if they were to sell them, their price would be around $9 each. They know that won't sell in our area. I'm able to make good money selling them at say $1 each, if I bring in 100-200 at a time. Sure I might be leaving some money on the table, but my buyer is happy. And the store can sell them right where they should be, just a bit higher than the other red cherries, $4-$5 (and make good profit). Meaning, next time I have a few hundred of them, they'll take them if they have space. 

- Quality has value. When I bring in 10 of this, or 30 of that, or 100 of something else, they are sellable size, look great and survive well. It's not uncommon for fish from their normal wholesaler to crash. No one wants dead fish in their tanks. Because I've never brought small fish, and my stock always survives well, they like doing business with me. Predictability and reliability. 

- Be prepared to give something away the first time, in order to secure future sales. Set your sell price when you do so, so they don't expect it to be free down the road, and also be prepared for them to not be interested even after you've given them the free sample. Trial and error. 

- Earlier this year, I found myself with a lot of store credit (like $500) and nothing I needed from them. I decided to start a business just so I could invoice them when I don't have plans to use store credit. Yes it takes them a month to cut and mail a cheque, and yes I'll have to pay taxes on the income, but there are plenty of things I need that I can buy with cash that I can't with fish store credit. 

 

Couple comments on your fish list: 

i. Focus on 1 endler type. Will you be selling in bulk, as pairs, or trios? This speaks to how many supporting tanks you need for each species/variety. Same (mostly) for shrimps (pick one type, to start). IMO you're betting having 2 tanks of a species that moves well, than 2 different species. 

ii. Snails might happen, but don't plan on making money with it. I've tried ramshorns, rabbit snails, and assassins. At this point, any sales I make are opportunistic, and it's more a case of them providing value through the job they do in my tanks, not the sales they generate. 

iii. From your list, I'm thinking you will be trying for mixed tanks? I'd recommend against it, unless you really are going down the route of hobby/enjoyment first, sales second. Having just one species in a tank allows you to really dial in the care for that species, and maximize returns. 

 

Closing note: sounds like you're still in the planning stages. Do you have any/many tanks running now? Stop planning and start doing. 🙂 Don't try to get it all going at once, just start one or two things. But start them. Start reaping those enjoyment rewards. 

[tolstoy21]

On 9/6/2022 at 8:15 AM, TOtrees said:

Aim for one or both of high-price items, or high-volume items. Fish that sell for low unit price and not much volume will not return much for you. In my experience, high-price items include shelldwellers, fancy plecos, dwarf cichlids, designer guppies. Items I've been able to do in high volume include furcata rainbows and cherry shrimp. 

Best advice ever! @TOtrees whole response is quality. But the above snippet is noteworthy.

This is especially true when shipping, because you'll lose money on low-cost/low-quantity items. I'm guessing its the same dynamic when selling to stores (something I don't typically do).

So breed fish that either have a moderate-to-high price tag per item/pair, or that have a moderate-to-lowish price tag (like $5 per fish) but that customers typically want in schools.

And, as @TOtrees and others have mentioned, be prepared to switch up what you breed -- something you love might just not sell well. Something you don't care for as much might wind up being the majority of your sales and helps fund the other things you like breeding more.  

On 9/6/2022 at 8:15 AM, TOtrees said:

Earlier this year, I found myself with a lot of store credit (like $500) and nothing I needed from them. I decided to start a business just so I could invoice them when I don't have plans to use store credit. Yes it takes them a month to cut and mail a cheque, and yes I'll have to pay taxes on the income, but there are plenty of things I need that I can buy with cash that I can't with fish store credit.

Why I sell online. Yes, shipping maybe much harder, and has lots of costs and logistics to negotiate, but I just couldn't use the store credit I was racking up any more either. There was literally nothing I wanted to buy, and the rate they would give me for cash wasn't to my liking.

Also true as @TOtreespoints out -- At some point your hobby could become a business (meaning hobby-side-hustle).  So be prepared to track expenses, cut invoices, pay sales tax, etc. 

 

Anyway good luck with all this! 

It is fun, even the parts that aren't fun. At least, I think so.  😉

I'm also a few years down the road in this aspect of the hobby (not an expert by any means, but just someone who's made some mistakes to learn from, and had some successes as well). So feel free to reach out with any questions. PM me here if you wish.

Edited September 9, 2022 by tolstoy21

[FishPlanet]

This is so cool! Following!

[AquaHobbyist123]

I now have more details.

I will just be doing Super Red BN, Blue Dream Shrimp, and some endlers.

I am planning the breeding rack system right now and I am deciding whether or not I want to incorporate Auto Water Change. The project should be up and running around March 2023. Playing it safe for now. If it's successful, I will expand. This is mainly for fun and to make a few bucks, not to try to make a fortune. I love fish, and breeding is its own reward (helps when it's paying for itself though)

I will get a around 4 55 gallon aquariums, because it is the best tank for the space I have available. I have been and am currently saving money for this, and I will begin construction within the next couple of months.

[AquaHobbyist123]

The reason I chose Bristlenose is because I can produce them en masse, and It's up something other than guppies for me to breed. Endler breeding will mostly be maximizing tank space. Let me know if you think I should do Auto WC, and what endler strain I should do.