I guess today was a day of love

[Ken Burke]

First thing I noticed when I got home:

yup, Hank staring me down.

 

then this:

Bubba fanning like his life depends on it.

 

 

 

[Guppysnail]

Little Love Potion #9 in with the last water change huh? Congratulations 🎊🍾🎉 

[Brandon p]

Are they in the same tank? I have 55gallons split in half with course filter .5” think. I have noticed that if one pair lays the other will with in the same day. 

[Ken Burke]

Separate tanks.  Fed bloodworms and brine shrimp a couple times in the last few days

[Brandon p]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:20 PM, Ken Burke said:

Separate tanks.  Fed bloodworms and brine shrimp a couple times in the last few days

Great good food helps. Do you have discus yet? If not the angels are great start to learn.

[Ken Burke]

@Brandon p I’ve started my discus collection, but still a few short of a school.  
 

I current have 3 angels.  I’ve had my large male, Hank, for about 4 years.  I’ve had Lucy and Ricky for about two years.  Lucy prefers Hank but will spawn with Rick on a pinch.  She lays eggs fairly regularly, but I don’t have the breading knack for angels. 

[Brandon p]

On 6/29/2022 at 6:05 PM, Ken Burke said:

@Brandon p I’ve started my discus collection, but still a few short of a school.  
 

I current have 3 angels.  I’ve had my large male, Hank, for about 4 years.  I’ve had Lucy and Ricky for about two years.  Lucy prefers Hank but will spawn with Rick on a pinch.  She lays eggs fairly regularly, but I don’t have the breading knack for angels. 

I though it was algae and it’s angel fry. Just saw they. If they lay you can hatch them. If you just have a pair they tend to learn to at least hatch the eggs. Not all will learn to hatch them but most do. After they hatch there is a lot of way to grow them up. I have 3 pair with eggs or fry now. I didn’t know I had these, this pair  will raise these to good size. One pair that hatched today is the only the second hatch. It was not great, they didn’t pick off the bad eggs. The move the few fry they have you a corner. The last pair is in the same tank just separated in half and laid about a day later and they haven’t hatched. The whole reason I went into this was I felt that getting angels to hatch and grow was a great way to learn for discus. Others might disagree but that what I think. I’m going to post the pics from all three and a video. With 3 in the one tank it would be hard to hatch. When it’s just 2 they both protect the fry. One thing is angelfish can be a coin flip on being good parents. Some just suck. Keep building your school. There are some good discus breeders here so ask for help when the start to pair off. I won’t be one. I have breed them but I’m not good enough to give really good advice with the discus.

[Ken Burke]

I’m not sure I’m up for discus breeding.  I would like angel babies, but my attempt to pull the eggs have always utterly failed.  
 

right now I’m working on another batch of BNPs since they sell really well at my LFS.  Once get through another batch, I think I’ll shuffle things around so Hank and Lucy have a 38 gallon to them selves.  They have managed to get wrigglers a few times, but with other fish in the tank, they don’t make it much further.  

[Brandon p]

I posted in the journal about three I have going right now. I like to leave them as long as I can., but if there are other fish it’s just snacks. I have a 75 with angels that never paired up or had a defect. Right now it has 4 males and one female.that I got at the same time. I do try 4 times the # of pairs. If I want 3 pairs I try to get 12-16. I get them dime sized if I can let the grow in the same tank until they start to pair off. Not all pairs work either. I work with some LFS’s normally one that I sell most too. I give or trade back the ones that don’t work. Depending the LFS you can get more of the BNP’s. I don’t get much for angels but I don’t have rare or super cool koi.

[Ken Burke]

On 6/29/2022 at 7:56 PM, Brandon p said:

I posted in the journal about three I have going right now. I like to leave them as long as I can., but if there are other fish it’s just snacks. I have a 75 with angels that never paired up or had a defect. Right now it has 4 males and one female.that I got at the same time. I do try 4 times the # of pairs. If I want 3 pairs I try to get 12-16. I get them dime sized if I can let the grow in the same tank until they start to pair off. Not all pairs work either. I work with some LFS’s normally one that I sell most too. I give or trade back the ones that don’t work. Depending the LFS you can get more of the BNP’s. I don’t get much for angels but I don’t have rare or super cool koi.

My LFS  (I only have 2, but the other specializes in salt and African cichlids) will pay ~$2.50 cash for BNP. I have them put it on a layaway instead.  That way if I ever want something, it’s already paid for.  
 

BTW: @Guppysnail! Is there ANYTHING as cute as a baby BNP?  Bubba Pleco, aka Big Daddy Pleco, must have kicked the kids out of the house.  Tank is littered with babies.

 

 

[Guppysnail]

On 6/30/2022 at 8:15 PM, Ken Burke said:

Is there ANYTHING as cute as a baby BNP?

If there is I’m certainly not aware of it. 🥰

[Torrey]

On 6/28/2022 at 5:55 PM, Ken Burke said:

irst thing I noticed when I got home:

yup, Hank staring me down.

This is an amazing picture!!!

On 6/29/2022 at 5:23 PM, Ken Burke said:

I’m not sure I’m up for discus breeding.  I would like angel babies, but my attempt to pull the eggs have always utterly failed.  
 

right now I’m working on another batch of BNPs since they sell really well at my LFS.  Once get through another batch, I think I’ll shuffle things around so Hank and Lucy have a 38 gallon to them selves.  They have managed to get wrigglers a few times, but with other fish in the tank, they don’t make it much further.  

If they are getting them to wriggler stage, in a tank with other fish, you have a good breeding pair. In a big enough tank with sufficient plants and good, high quality food, the pair may do all the work for you. They will remove any fry they don't think are good for the gene pool, which I appreciated when I used to breed.

I had too many tanks and not the same resources as Dean, so all my tnkas had UGF and I ultimately only kept breeding parents willing to do the work as parents.

Benefit of letting parents do the job, is the fry they raise will be better parents themselves, and won't take as long to figure out how. Key to success is lots of plants, and if you go with UGF go with a fairly deep substrate and an uplift tube that is big enough for the python hose to go inside. Instead of gravel vac, just use the python to suck the UGF clean right after you remove fry to grow out tanks. The less the UGF (& gravel)  is disturbed, the more stable the parameters and the less stressed your breeding pairs. @Brandon p this method works with discus, too. Stable waters, minimal stress and interference, plenty of plants to support microfauna for fry.

[Ken Burke]

On 7/1/2022 at 5:05 PM, Torrey said:

This is an amazing picture!!!

If they are getting them to wriggler stage, in a tank with other fish, you have a good breeding pair. In a big enough tank with sufficient plants and good, high quality food, the pair may do all the work for you. They will remove any fry they don't think are good for the gene pool, which I appreciated when I used to breed.

I had too many tanks and not the same resources as Dean, so all my tnkas had UGF and I ultimately only kept breeding parents willing to do the work as parents.

Benefit of letting parents do the job, is the fry they raise will be better parents themselves, and won't take as long to figure out how. Key to success is lots of plants, and if you go with UGF go with a fairly deep substrate and an uplift tube that is big enough for the python hose to go inside. Instead of gravel vac, just use the python to suck the UGF clean right after you remove fry to grow out tanks. The less the UGF (& gravel)  is disturbed, the more stable the parameters and the less stressed your breeding pairs. @Brandon p this method works with discus, too. Stable waters, minimal stress and interference, plenty of plants to support microfauna for fry.

I’m going to run a couple batches of BNPs in my 38 gallon, then move the angles into that tank by themselves.  I really don’t have the tank space to breed lots not lots of fish, so I need to be somewhat selective in my efforts. 

[Ken Burke]

Bubba and my large female Pleco argued over this cave the other day,  He'd chase her into the cave, but she would sneak out. Bubba hangs out in this cave a lot nowadays.  

but there are a lot of Baby plecos in the tank😀

Now if i can onlu find out where the Albino comes from.  Ive never owned one, and the female is from one of my previous spawns.  very curious

[Guppysnail]

Bubba has such an adorable kissy face 🥰. I’m not certain but I think albinism pops up randomly in most dark pleco. Perhaps it in the genetic ancestry. Unless you are crazy like me and watch the cave for hours to see each little one exit you may never narrow it down. 

[Ken Burke]

On 7/14/2022 at 11:04 AM, Fish Folk said:

Presuming that albinism in Corydoras aeneus follow Mendelian genetics, then yes, fry from Albino males and albino females should all be albino.

Here is how this works:

Albinism is a recessive (non-dominant) genetic trait.

So, let the gene for "Bronze" coloration be = B

And let the gene for "albino" coloration be = a

I've capitalized the "B" (for Bronze) because it is the dominant coloration, and let the "a" (for albinism) stay lower case because it is non-dominant.

Now, a Bronze-colored Corydoras aeneus can be either: B-a, where albinism is a present but recessive trait; or B-B, where the gene for albinism is not present at all.

But an albino Corydoras aeneus must possess both recessive genes: a-a

In theory at least, this means that albino Corydoras aeneus will _always_ pass on these albino genes to fry that will likewise carry the double-recessive colorations.

Now, it is possible that the perceived "albinism" is not true. Always look at the eyes to see if they are red.

The simple way to see this is to set up an old Punnett Square (H.S. Biology class):

One parental genetic marker trait is show across the top, and the other along the side...

     B     B

B

B

In this case, all four quarters of the fry will show the traits like this...

     B     B

B  BB  BB

B  BB  BB

Now, this the case of Albinism, this would look more like...

     a     a

a  aa  aa

a  aa  aa

So all of the fry should be albino.

Now, if one parent is heterozygous -- looks Bronze, but carries both genes, then the outcome looks like...

     B     a

a  Ba  aa

a  Ba  aa

In this scenario, 2 of the quarters of fry will be like the heterozygous parent -- looking Bronze but carrying both genes. The other 2 quarters will be albino

If both parents are heterozygous, then...

     B     a

B  BB  Ba

a  Ba  aa

Here, one quarter is true Bronze; 2 quarters are heterozygous (but will look Bronze, because that's dominant); and only one quarter will be albino

__________________

Having said all of that . . . I'm just arm-chairing this. I'd be glad to hear from a Biologist who can be more instructive. I have been told that certain species (e.g. Ancistrus) do not follow strict Mendelian genetics. But, anecdotally, I've seen it born out across several generations that _grand-fry_ from a color cross will split back out in Mendelian quarters, close to Punnett square predictions.

The way that I sometimes think about fish traits is to imagine a CUBE, where each side presents a different genetic markers...

So the net result is ultimately a sort of "matrix" of genetic things, reflecting color, size, fin & body shape / length, etc.

@Fish Folk explained in another thread.  Bubba has the recessive genetic trait.  Some offspring has the trait.  breading back to the daddy results in a few albino plecos.  Now I'm very curious to see if they would breed true.  If i only had the room

[Guppysnail]

Now I feel 😵‍💫 dizzy 🤣. Nightmare H.S. Flashbacks ensuing. 

[Ken Burke]

On 7/14/2022 at 11:30 AM, Guppysnail said:

Now I feel 😵‍💫 dizzy 🤣. Nightmare H.S. Flashbacks ensuing. 

Me too.  and it was such a long time ago....

 

but well explained.  

[Ken Burke]

My sailfins are spawning. Again.

this time smack dab in the middle of the front glass.  Sheesh