How risky is the frozen-dirt root tab method

[Scapexghost]

So i've heard a few times that a budget method to get nutrients into the substrate is to freeze dirt in an ice-cube tray and sticking the cubes into the substrate. 

How risky is this method in terms of causing an ammonia spike? What is the safe ammount of dirt you can use before ammonia poisoning becomes a risk? All dirt is different, so lets say organic miracle gro, since thats what people usually suggest for dirted tanks.

[Odd Duck]

I haven’t heard the frozen dirt method but my friend does that with Osmocote granules as his root tabs.  🤷🏻‍♀️ Hopefully someone will chime in for you that has used the Miracle-Gro Organic this way.

[Mmiller2001]

Root tabs are not necessary. All that is needed is proper water column dosing and a good water change schedule. I advice cation with root tabs, especially Osmocote.

[FlyingFishKeeper]

Hi, I haven't used soil as a root tab, however I've had really good luck capping it with another substrate. I personally like the Miracle Grow "Nature's Care Organic Potting Mix" to the best of my knowledge it hasn't caused any major affects on my tanks after being set up. From what I've heard ammonia generally isn't added into organic soils. I would caution that this stuff is VERY buoyant, and I imagine freezing it might make it worse. I would generally say that in a lot of cases you don't need fertilized substrate, however I've found the above product works quite well for my tanks.

Edited June 1, 2022 by FlyingFishKeeper

[Torrey]

On 5/31/2022 at 1:38 AM, Scapexghost said:

So i've heard a few times that a budget method to get nutrients into the substrate is to freeze dirt in an ice-cube tray and sticking the cubes into the substrate. 

How risky is this method in terms of causing an ammonia spike? What is the safe ammount of dirt you can use before ammonia poisoning becomes a risk? All dirt is different, so lets say organic miracle gro, since thats what people usually suggest for dirted tanks.

I would recommend reading Dr Diana Walstad's book for some of the best information (as far as being easier to read and understand) for information on dirt in tanks.

If you are like me, and enjoy experimenting, my recommendations would be:

1. Sift. Otherwise, as the ice cube melts you will have sedimant floating at the top of the tank.

2. The 2 places I read about it justified freezing as a means to kill pathogens/parasites. If you get the dirt from an established water way, freezing won't kill cysts. If you are using garden dirt, there won't be in parasites that survive the water.

3. I think a more effective method to try, and would be a cool experiment if you want to try both and see what does better, would be soak the dirt until it is well and truly waterlogged. I have found that the organic Miracle Grow (specifically, as that is what I used in my Walstad) takes about 2 weeks to get truly waterlogged, and requires a lot of stirring... here in the desert. Once it is dry, it is very hydrophobic, worse than a lot of bark products. So, once it's water logged, I would put half in 00 gelatin capsules, and freeze the other half. Gelatin capsule would be more labor intensive. See if there's a difference in how the plants grow.

But that's me... I like to science.

 

[Bev C]

i have been thinking of trying  this to experiment to see how it works for 1-3 months   because i have heard a few people doing this  But i want to do safely ..i was thinking just mix it like mud texture   with water and organic miracle gro   & do small cubes  and freeze but if i try this i would only add 1 or 2  cubes at a time wait 2-4 days  and test it  then repeat so to make sure the water is safe from ammonia and nitrates and nitrites .I am still thinking of doing this  have not went to town to get the organic yet 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Bev C

[Scapexghost]

On 6/1/2022 at 9:36 PM, Bev C said:

i have been thinking of trying  this to experiment to see how it works for 1-3 months   because i have heard a few people doing this  But i want to do safely ..i was thinking just mix it like mud texture   with water and organic miracle gro   & do small cubes  and freeze but if i try this i would only add 1 or 2  cubes at a time wait 2-4 days  and test it  then repeat so to make sure the water is safe from ammonia and nitrates and nitrites .I am still thinking of doing this  have not went to town to get the organic yet 

Another precaution i was considering was not feeding the day I put in the root tabs. Thay way the bacteria that would be processing the fish waste will be processing the root tabs instead

[Brian]

This must be new .  Never heard that one.  Very interesting.  I think so much of this depends on each individual person and tank.  Would you put in a pot and cover with a substrate?  What kind of substrate?  What kind of fish, are the likely to dig it up?  Would you maybe wrap something around that would hold it together, like cheese cloth?  What kind of soil?  
I try to look at things as - Risks and Rewards.   Is it worth the troubles and headaches?

Good Luck 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 5/31/2022 at 2:38 AM, Scapexghost said:

So i've heard a few times that a budget method to get nutrients into the substrate is to freeze dirt in an ice-cube tray and sticking the cubes into the substrate. 

Full disclosure, this is brand new to me.  That said, I would be wary of this unless you have sterilized the dirt first (oven baking at 250 for an hour or similar).  I would be concerned for two possibilities. 

The first is that if the soil came from an aquatic, or near aquatic environment, it might introduce pathogens to your tank.  I've made that mistake once with devastating results, and I will never do it again.

The other, probably far less concerning prospect, is the introduction of algal spores.  I'm not entirely sure what the change is risk is here, but this is my thought process.  Our tanks are largely "disturbed" systems, like when you turn over new ground.  The algal species we most often get are the "weedy" species of algae, i.e, those that can easily colonize new habitat.  They are the dandelions of the FW algal world.  But there are many, many other species of algae, some that are less able to spread and colonize our tanks.  They may well have spores in the soil as part of their particular life history strategy, and otherwise not easily make it to our tanks.  How many of these will grow in a tank, I don't know.  Nor do I know how many would become a problem in a tank.  But I would be cautious about introducing them nonetheless.

All that said, sterilizing the soil would remove my concerns, and I'll be curious how it works out for you if you proceed.  Good luck, and thanks for introducing new ideas to us!

[Bev C]

thanks every one  for the concern and advice  I want to do it safely   but i like to experiment  though  .  If i do this i am not going to experiment  to  my main tank with my fish  & snails … if i do it  i will experiment on my 20 gallon quarantine tank  that runs with only plants in  no fish or snails. in quarantine tank

i usually only have fish or snails in quarantine tank when sick or i get new fish  or snails i have all the supplies to tear  and rebuild tank if it goes wrong  & if need to tear down and rebuild  and I have extra  sand , sponge filter and rock from main tank  to get a cycled rebuild if i need 

i was going to try with no chemicals organic soil and shift it and clean it   i was thinking of baking in my oven  too  like @OnlyGenusCaps mentioned  before making the mud mixture  and freezing it 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Bev C