Testing Time: Fixing the Seachem Tidals Bypass

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/9/2022 at 7:58 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I repaired the basket that broke. 

You can see the scuffed up window piece now.  It's a lot sturdier with the surface prepped and being a bit more liberal with the silicone.  You can also see the little holes I cut for the adhesion to bond / hold rather than just attaching.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/15/2022 at 6:45 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

You can also see the little holes I cut for the adhesion to bond / hold rather than just attaching

That’s a good idea. Gives it a bit more grip and resistance.

[TeeJay]

On 8/9/2022 at 10:58 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Prefilter added. We'll see how it goes.  this is the ACO medium size.  It really does not have a hold near big enough for this intake so you're going to cut it by hand and that might be difficult for some.  I don't really have another option and using a fine pore sponge will likely end up with the pump choking out.  I turned off the filter, installed it, and I really just don't have an ease of access to this for cleaning.  I'll figure it out, but I know it's going to be an issue in this scape.

I repaired the basket that broke.  Setup right now is just interim.  I did end up doing the bonding holes, I scuffed up the plastic, and I cleaned and prepped the surfaces properly.  We'll see how it holds up.

Yes that's the same sponge I put in my intake. I just put my fingers inside and stretched it out a bit to get it slid over the intake tube. Pain in the butt it was.

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/26/2022 at 3:58 PM, TeeJay said:

Yes that's the same sponge I put in my intake. I just put my fingers inside and stretched it out a bit to get it slid over the intake tube. Pain in the butt it was.

I went to clean it out today...

I just don't understand some design choices. I generally don't like prefilters because it's a hassle to clean. At this point it's mandatory until I get the plants functional and growing. Plant leaves go into the pump and that causes issues. 😞

But, I was cleaning it today and there was an issue there the sponge was compressed against the back glass and the flow got choked out. This left a not so nice smudge of gunk and trying to get the bag over the sponge, well I'll just let you imagine how dirty the water got. I lean the filter back or literally just remove the intake tube to clean it. I haven't found a good method, especially when the filter and glass is so tight on the sponge.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/26/2022 at 7:46 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I went to clean it out today...

I just don't understand some design choices. I generally don't like prefilters because it's a hassle to clean. At this point it's mandatory until I get the plants functional and growing. Plant leaves go into the pump and that causes issues. 😞

But, I was cleaning it today and there was an issue there the sponge was compressed against the back glass and the flow got choked out. This left a not so nice smudge of gunk and trying to get the bag over the sponge, well I'll just let you imagine how dirty the water got. I lean the filter back or literally just remove the intake tube to clean it. I haven't found a good method, especially when the filter and glass is so tight on the sponge.

I unplug the filter and remove the intake tube. That way no one gets sucked in. 
 

It is a pain in the butt, but it keeps plant matter out and also houses BB.

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/26/2022 at 6:46 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I unplug the filter and remove the intake tube. That way no one gets sucked in. 
 

It is a pain in the butt, but it keeps plant matter out and also houses BB.

I just wish I had a better method.  I have a soldering iron somewhere around here....

[nabokovfan87]

For the sake of clarity, if anyone has a tidal 35 and needs to add a prefilter:

 

[nabokovfan87]

To add onto the conversation of the Tidal 35 and it's very specific design issues I wanted to use mine to run a test which should be a very simple and straightforward method to operate these filters.  This will work for literally any of them.  Let me break down the setup and then we'll dig into a few assumptions prior to running tests with this setup.

Note: All I have is bumpy foams to cut up. You can use other foams, they will work fine, I just don't have anything on hand.
 

2 notes:
-All sides of the sponge are generally going to be curved or beveled in some direction. It is much easier if you have a big chunk or AC70 sponge, for instance, and then can whittle it away.  This is what makes it easier to clean and trim to fit.
-When you have the chute guide (basket) missing there is a section to the right of the blue chute cover where the water can easily bypass and move to the output flow path. This is the downside of every single R-->L or L-->R design typically because the pump is on the top of the water level and not the base of the HoB. (yes, this even applies to AC filters).  In the video I try to show and demonstrate this section.  Ultimately, you have a shim of plastic to try to hold all of this fine pad into place and you don't want it to cover the chute itself.

I will run this for a little bit and report back, especially on ease of maintenance.  Best of luck to @TeeJay and hopefully this helps to setup his filter!

[TeeJay]

On 8/30/2022 at 10:20 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

To add onto the conversation of the Tidal 35 and it's very specific design issues I wanted to use mine to run a test which should be a very simple and straightforward method to operate these filters.  This will work for literally any of them.  Let me break down the setup and then we'll dig into a few assumptions prior to running tests with this setup.

Note: All I have is bumpy foams to cut up. You can use other foams, they will work fine, I just don't have anything on hand.
 

2 notes:
-All sides of the sponge are generally going to be curved or beveled in some direction. It is much easier if you have a big chunk or AC70 sponge, for instance, and then can whittle it away.  This is what makes it easier to clean and trim to fit.
-When you have the chute guide (basket) missing there is a section to the right of the blue chute cover where the water can easily bypass and move to the output flow path. This is the downside of every single R-->L or L-->R design typically because the pump is on the top of the water level and not the base of the HoB. (yes, this even applies to AC filters).  In the video I try to show and demonstrate this section.  Ultimately, you have a shim of plastic to try to hold all of this fine pad into place and you don't want it to cover the chute itself.

I will run this for a little bit and report back, especially on ease of maintenance.  Best of luck to @TeeJay and hopefully this helps to setup his filter!

Now if we could just put a intake tube on it we would be in buisness. I still can't figure out why they didn't do that

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/30/2022 at 8:00 PM, TeeJay said:

I still can't figure out why they didn't do that

They literally could've used a tidal 55 and just put a pump that was smaller on it. Which is funny because every difference between the tidal 35 and the 55 is not great.  I don't even understand why they "added a skimmer" because the entire pump is literally in the water and not covered on 65% of it's sides.

-Worse leveling piece
-Worse flow control dial
-No intake filter
-"Skimmer"
-Basket doesn't have the side cutout so 1 section of the sponge is literally pointless
-no tab to lock down the basket from floating, it's a pressure fit, so it actually works slightly better than all the other tidals in terms of bypass because it is a tighter fit

As a designer, I can understand partially, some of the filter changes. But then you dig deeper and see this stuff:

They literally use the Tidal 55, all existing parts, ZERO design cost or time to change this.....  They assign a new pump part number with a modified impeller design.  "Done"

 

[SimmonsSnailsNScales]

I run a tidal 110 on my 75G aquarium. I just let it eat everything that goes in the skimmer and it's going strong after 6 months. I understand the complaints about the skimmer but if you are willing to completely ignore things that are constantly stuck on the front of the filter it is pretty awesome. It is the quietest hang on back I have ever used and water clarity is impressive. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/30/2022 at 11:31 PM, SimmonsSnailsNScales said:

I run a tidal 110 on my 75G aquarium. I just let it eat everything that goes in the skimmer and it's going strong after 6 months. I understand the complaints about the skimmer but if you are willing to completely ignore things that are constantly stuck on the front of the filter it is pretty awesome. It is the quietest hang on back I have ever used and water clarity is impressive. 

I totally agree.  My issue is that "stuff that got stuck" more often than not was wide body fish (green tiger barbs and odessa barbs)

@TeeJay I woke up and the flow output seemed a bit wonky.  I checked the sponge, it shifted slightly or something.  Water level seemed slightly higher than usual, but I didn't see much of an issue with regards to the sponge.  I need to either do a better job of setting things up, but the 35 is back to running the basket and sponges that I cut myself.  Potentially viewing the basket as a chute / holder and nothing more, even if you cut everything off and stuff the side with sponge..... it might make a lot of sense to leave the chute section there, adhered in some way, if you really need it.  Because the Tidal 35 is a bit more of a pressure fit, it would (or should) be able to sit in there without much hassle.  If I had an extra basket I'd chop one up.  For now, I can simply recommend for the tidal 35:

A.  Start with all phase 1 changes, specifically cutting your own sponges, preferably bumpy
B. Make sure you stuff the weight in there as even as you can so the water level is as low as you can make it during each cleanout
C. Use a piece of fine sponge / pad to cover up the window cutout.

For the tidal 35 specifically.... those 3 things work really well to get it running nicely in my experience without much hassle. This is quite a bit less hassle than trying to stuff the Tidal with sponge without a basket in there to hold things in place.

[TeeJay]

On 8/31/2022 at 12:10 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I totally agree.  My issue is that "stuff that got stuck" more often than not was wide body fish (green tiger barbs and odessa barbs)

@TeeJay I woke up and the flow output seemed a bit wonky.  I checked the sponge, it shifted slightly or something.  Water level seemed slightly higher than usual, but I didn't see much of an issue with regards to the sponge.  I need to either do a better job of setting things up, but the 35 is back to running the basket and sponges that I cut myself.  Potentially viewing the basket as a chute / holder and nothing more, even if you cut everything off and stuff the side with sponge..... it might make a lot of sense to leave the chute section there, adhered in some way, if you really need it.  Because the Tidal 35 is a bit more of a pressure fit, it would (or should) be able to sit in there without much hassle.  If I had an extra basket I'd chop one up.  For now, I can simply recommend for the tidal 35:

A.  Start with all phase 1 changes, specifically cutting your own sponges, preferably bumpy
B. Make sure you stuff the weight in there as even as you can so the water level is as low as you can make it during each cleanout
C. Use a piece of fine sponge / pad to cover up the window cutout.

For the tidal 35 specifically.... those 3 things work really well to get it running nicely in my experience without much hassle. This is quite a bit less hassle than trying to stuff the Tidal with sponge without a basket in there to hold things in place.

Next on the agenda for modification.

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/31/2022 at 12:12 PM, TeeJay said:

Next on the agenda for modification.

Let me know if you need anything.  As you know, basket is very very easy to mod. so is cutting sponge for said basket (or making sure the sponge you have actually fits well enough).

[nabokovfan87]

I did not take the pump apart for cleaning this time, my hope is that the prefilter is doing its job and that the filter itself can work effectively as a result.  That is literally the test right now is to determine viability long term.

I went ahead and inspected everything and just for a sanity check verified that lid as a base feature works with the mods recommended in phase 1. It does.

Next step was to clean everything, nothing too crazy except for the amount of fine gunk in the prefilter.... It was stuffed with detritus. Which is what the hope is.

Next, I went ahead and inspected the filter chamber. I wanted to see if the prefilter media was clogging or if it was forcing things to not get stuck in the mechanical filtration. Yes, this stuff is a form of mechanical filtration right now, but it is not meant as such right now. If I modify what is being used I can control this. (more on this later)

For now, I have removed these to go ahead and give the filter, media basket, a chance to clean out all of this debris.

You can also see how much much is elsewhere in the filter housing when all of these areas should not be holding water or detritus. This is a sign of bypass and the water going up instead of down when it reaches the chute portion.

 

[redfish]

Reading online review sites on best HOB, the SeaChem Tidal 75 came out on top.  I immediately thought of your thread on modifying your HOB.

Would you buy the Tidal again or another brand? 

@nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/7/2022 at 7:49 AM, redfish said:

Reading online review sites on best HOB, the SeaChem Tidal 75 came out on top.  I immediately thought of your thread on modifying your HOB.

Would you buy the Tidal again or another brand? 

@nabokovfan87

Pump, yes.  Everything else.... It's really difficult to say.

The long and short version of answering this is that I am on the fence and unsure.  For the price, considering a similarly priced HoB is missing a ton of the features of this one, the reliability and customer service, I really enjoy my filter for that reason alone. I had an issue with the 75, couldn't figure out how to get it setup, and they had a pump to me with nothing more than a few emails back and forth.  Verify warranty period, everything was fine.

The impeller / Pump itself is pone of the single best you can purchase.  The amount of media it *CAN HOLD* is pretty awesome.  That does not mean it actually can hold that much media and function properly.  Phase 1 tweaks and changes are a must in my book.  If you're comfortable with those, yes.

If you have fish that can get damaged by the filter, either seal it, or look elsewhere.
AC Filter - I've had too many issues and impeller / pump failures, especially the 110. Lid Rattle, shaft wear issues.
Seachem - Bypass issue is real, and it's very difficult to solve it thoroughly
Aqueon - I had no issues, it's slightly difficult to mod, pump has reports of long term failures (clip attachment fails)
Tetra - Difficult to mod due to available space, pump is external, missing some of the "nice" features of the tidal
Marineland Penguin Pro - Super nice filter! It is the most comparable to the tidal, but.... the intake is super weird.

If I had to choose what I would get, 75G for instance, it would be between the fluval 407, 2x Tidal 75s, or the Marineland Penguin Pro.

[redfish]

Thanks.  I’m rocking my old whisper 30-60 filters from the 90’s I believe.  They sat in storage for over 12 - 15 years.  Dusted them off, filled the tank and plugged them in.  Still fairly quiet to me anyway.  You can hear a low humming sound. I have two on my 55 gal.  I want to see a new filter in action to get a better idea on any improvements or features I’m missing out on.

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/7/2022 at 7:59 PM, redfish said:

Still fairly quiet to me anyway.  You can hear a low humming sound. I have two on my 55 gal.  I want to see a new filter in action to get a better idea on any improvements or features I’m missing out on.

Cleaning / lubricating the impeller is probably all it needs. The new stuff is probably more efficient.  As far as features, the biggest one's for me being:

A.  How does it handle media, can it hold sponge or is it something where you can modify it to hold better quality media.
B.  How easily can I control the flow, does it work well when I try to control it!
(bonus: C.  Where on earth is the pump located)

[redfish]

Right.  I did check the impeller to make sure it wasn’t clogged up with a bug or something.  They were both clear, spun freely and don’t leak.  

Good requirements list!

For the 30-60:

I have been impressed with media options and storage.  I have a course sponge and filter floss in each compartment (two compartments per filter) with plenty of room for water to flow without restriction.

The flow control does work as advertised.  

The pump is outside the tank.  It will recover/self priming if the intake pipe has a good seal(no big air leak) and there is any water left in the filter from what I’ve experienced.  I’m sure if it’s dry it probably won’t prime but I have not tested that.

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/7/2022 at 8:25 PM, redfish said:

The pump is outside the tank.  It will recover/self priming if the intake pipe has a good seal(no big air leak) and there is any water left in the filter from what I’ve experienced.  I’m sure if it’s dry it probably won’t prime but I have not tested that.

The only one I've ever seen reports of issues is the ACs and the majority of reasons for that being the shaft issue (shaft wears oddly and stops impeller from spinning easily)

I would expect most everything to start as long as it's still got water in the filter box.

Approaching things as a blank canvas, in terms of media, is honestly the biggest thing so many of these HoBs need for hobbyists to do well with them. The Tidal has it's quirks, but as for it being a box to put things in, one of the nicer versions.  If I had a difinitive way to fix bypass (almost there, but not likely) then I would be able to recommend it a bit easier.  Honestly, as long as the pump works and you're happy, run what you have.  Just get some silicone grease and you should be set.

[nabokovfan87]

I did my usual cleanout today.  I recorded the prefilter sponge because I'm pretty shocked at how much junk this thing holds after 1 week.  I don't understand where all the muck comes from, but here's the demo.  This is a tank with what amounts to 5 fish, some shrimp, some otos, and 2 clown plecos.  Maybe it's all from the wood pulp and the clowns.  I'll be moving one here shortly once I catch him.
 

For comparison, the pump did have junk and crud all over it with the prefilter.  I did remove the HoB cover so I can go ahead and cover up one spot I found open.  I don't know if @TeeJay covered it on his mod, but I am going to let the plastic dry and glue that.  Details in a few days here on how to do so.  I did find another source of bypass on the prefilter and it explains a lot.  I'll snag photos when I have some good light and post the next update.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 9/12/2022 at 1:47 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I don't understand where all the muck comes from

Looks like the stuff at 2:00 is some of the BBA that was scraped.  For the record, I hate pulling sponges to clean them.  Mainly bc it messes up the tank.  Cory bags it with a ziplock while in the tank.  I tried that, but I didn't have success with it, but I think it helped a little.  Detritus in the water column is inevitable when pulling sponges in my opinion.  So when I do it, I make sure I do it before I gravel vac, so that I can at least suck some of the floating stuff out. 

I do like those bumpy sponges that you use.  I remember you shared the video by the pond guy or whatnot and he explained the bumps.  Pretty slick.  Maybe one day when I run out of sponge I will pick some of that stuff up and give it a whirl.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea
I went off the rails

[redfish]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:47 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

For comparison, the pump did have junk and crud all over it with the prefilter.  

 

Thanks for the reminder.  I need to clean my prefilters.  I noticed the HOB sponge doesn't look dirty at all probably because the prefilter sponge is catching a lot of stuff.

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/12/2022 at 10:02 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Detritus in the water column is inevitable when pulling sponges in my opinion.  So when I do it, I make sure I do it before I gravel vac, so that I can at least suck some of the floating stuff out.

yeah, 1000%.  I try to let stuff settle and then vac where I can without pulling plants up. 
 

On 9/12/2022 at 10:02 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

My problem is that stuff sits under the prefilter sponge because my substrate is so high. 

I put a gap right below the intake. At least enough to where I can get a bag in there.  Front to back, the substrate is higher in the back. Then left to right in the back it shallows out in the middle where the fish hide under the wood and where the intake is.  In my mind, probably not the case, it helps all the stuff settle in that spot and then I can easily siphon that one location where the fish usually hang out.  For clown plecos, it's pretty obvious where they hang out!!! 😂

^^ Apparently this didn't post yesterday!