Testing Time: Fixing the Seachem Tidals Bypass

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

@nabokovfan87 If I ever get a SeaChem tidal I’ll just mail it to you, you can “do some stuff” to it, and then send the better version back. Just don’t send any worms. 🤣

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/17/2022 at 1:42 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

don’t send any worms.

no promises.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I like the structure of your research and experiments and how you show the results of each in your videos. I designate you the filter expert here, @Colu is the doctor who writes the prescriptions for sick fishies, and I can be mystery snail hatching consultant. 🙃

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/14/2022 at 9:40 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

For the sake of clarity, here is the other pertinent views of the filter box.  There is some moss in the bottom of the HoB cavity, which isn't anything out of the ordinary.  The pump was clean of any worms and looked like it had just been cleaned.  Clearly it is working well, so I didn't worry about cleaning the impeller shaft itself.  The second photo below is of the chute cover and the chute cavity.  There isn't any blockages, the adjustment dial was reinstalled and cleaned just for the sake of doing so.

One way to "fix flow" might literally be to stuff that cavity with sponge, but I have a few other ideas to try first.

I will clean out the filter tomorrow.

A few notes, this is a Thursday --> Sunday in terms of the timeline for when we saw bypass. This isn't acceptable and I'm still not happy with the current results in terms of where the longevity stands. I'll hit up the store tomorrow and see what options I can find to fix the filter.

Part of the solution here is going to be sorting out the chute itself flooding. This could be as simple as when I reinstalled the cover, but considering it was on the video and photos prior to making any attempt to clean it.... I don't think that's the reason.

Foam inside the chute as mentioned previously I think is "useful," but I don't think it's viable long term due to how difficult it would be to clean regularly. Especially if we're talking such sort terms for use.

Part of the difficulty here is that I can only really do some non-destructive mods at this point without much time between cleanings and water changes.  I am going to have to measure the space underneath the basket and potentially reshape it as an option moving forward. Something else ove been thinking about is sealing the edges or extending the height of the basket in some way. There are some options, but not many of them are as clean as I'd like.

I apologize for the flicker on the video. It's an issue with the laser sensor on my phone interacting with the lens on the camera.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 7/18/2022 at 5:28 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

apologize for the flicker on the video. It's an issue with the laser sensor on my phone interacting with the lens on the camera

If I use a flashlight while taking video I also get the flickering.

[nabokovfan87]

No real changes on test #3.  I've gone ahead and set things up for test 4.  This being the exact same setup but trying to slow down the water by using something as a baffle.  My preferred choice would be eheim mech, my local store didn't have any.  In lieu of this, crushed coral might work well but trap a lot of muck.  I opted to use some old filter media.

Shoutout to my camera for getting literally everything out of focus.  There is just over 1/4" of room below the basket (for this specific model) and I think larger filters will have more room, the Tidal 35 I can measure, but it will have less room, and less of an issue.


Here is the media in the basket and just for sanity sake It's a single layer on the bottom and the basket works properly without any interference.  You can see the blue latch in place as it should be.

Initially, the flow is about 40-60% slower than it was previously.  I'll keep an eye on this, but I would start by saying.... DO NOT do this without added aeration in your aquarium.  The big question is going to be do we see a longer time in-between cleanings and reach our expected goal of ~14 days without bypass.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/11/2022 at 12:15 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

he cut his own sponges, they actually fit well, and they have the dimples, solves a lot of issues for a lot of people

What sort of issues would those types of sponges solve?

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/23/2022 at 6:45 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

What sort of issues would those types of sponges solve?

For a few reasons, the filter has an issue with flow.  It's *too strong* which leads to:
1. Water level a bit too high if you stuff the basket with media which leads to bypass
2. Water chooses path of least resistance, which isn't the sponge, which leads to bypass
3.  The sponge has some muck on it, water goes around the basket due to restricted flow, which leads to bypass.

Sealing the cuts in the basket helps, but also encourages the water level ever so slightly higher.

Modifying the foam just means that you can control how quickly #3 happens above.  Going from about 1-2 days between bypass to 3-5 days with bypass.  This all depends how much "muck" is in the water and how much you feed day to day.

The dimples.... do this:
 

What this means is you can hold a bit more muck on that bottom edge of the foam before it just goes around and over the basket.  Small thing, but for this HoB in particular it makes a pretty big difference.  There's a video I just found and linked to, a guy had used rain gutter mesh to lift the foam up and allow the water to flow into the basket a lot easier.  That also is a great way to improve on the system as well and something I plan to do.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 7/23/2022 at 9:52 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

For a few reasons, the filter has an issue with flow.  It's *too strong* which leads to:
1. Water level a bit too high if you stuff the basket with media which leads to bypass
2. Water chooses path of least resistance, which isn't the sponge, which leads to bypass
3.  The sponge has some muck on it, water goes around the basket due to restricted flow, which leads to bypass.

Sealing the cuts in the basket helps, but also encourages the water level ever so slightly higher.

Modifying the foam just means that you can control how quickly #3 happens above.  Going from about 1-2 days between bypass to 3-5 days with bypass.  This all depends how much "muck" is in the water and how much you feed day to day.

The dimples.... do this:
 

What this means is you can hold a bit more muck on that bottom edge of the foam before it just goes around and over the basket.  Small thing, but for this HoB in particular it makes a pretty big difference.  There's a video I just found and linked to, a guy had used rain gutter mesh to lift the foam up and allow the water to flow into the basket a lot easier.  That also is a great way to improve on the system as well and something I plan to do.

Thanks! I’ve seen that type of foam in stores, but never really knew its purpose or the logic behind it. It reminds me of soundproofing foam for studios, aka egg crate foam.

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:50 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Initially, the flow is about 40-60% slower than it was previously.  I'll keep an eye on this, but I would start by saying.... DO NOT do this without added aeration in your aquarium.  The big question is going to be do we see a longer time in-between cleanings and reach our expected goal of ~14 days without bypass.

~24 hours later. We have bypass on the entire right side, flow seems slow still, but we do have bypass on the key areas (right side handle, rear of basket)

[nabokovfan87]

Well.....  This one is going to be a pretty critical update to the project!

First, I want to show the status of the "stuff in the bottom of the basket to slow down the flow" test I was running.  As mentioned above I had used what I had on hand which means it wasn't optimal.  I went ahead and tracked down some mech and mech-type media that I can test with for the sake of trying something heavier.

After about 2-3 days I noticed that the flow itself was completely cut off on one side of the HoB output.  The right side of the waterfall was missing and it seemed to be a pretty glaring issue.  I didn't want to move things around and I tried to disassemble the filter without disrupting everything beneath the sponge and basket.  My assumption was that all of the media was so light that it was pushed to the right side of the basket and then that meant that the flow itself was choosing the easiest path with was the pump side of the basket and the left side of the output.

Visually, this is what I saw:
 

I put the basket back in and just wanted to take a look after things settled, this is what I saw.  You can see it in the video, but this is pretty clear showing the gap on one side and the media stacked on the right side.  As I moved the basket, things do float and do move around so it's hard to be certain.  I will end up trying to sort out if heavier media will resolve the issue as well as media with a hole in it compared to something solid.  I might have to try crushed coral just for the sake of it or some gravel.



I was looking up weight of media, it looks like the mech is about 30-40% heavier.  I'll measure things when I get them on hand for comparison sake as well.  I removed the filter media from the bottom of the hang on back and proceeded to clean out the filter basket.  I will wait until the new stuff arrives before I run anything further.  The fish are in the middle of meds, so it's possible the difference in viscosity of the water is also relevant here.

The other thing of note was that the sponge was full of stuff!  It was good to see it completely clogged again.

I cleaned the sponge, and I added a piece of fine pad above it, then the bag of matrix.  I turned the pump back on and noticed right away it was bypassing worse than before I had done anything!
 

If you'll notice, the filter is adjusted down to about 5% flow and then the bypass stops and the water level drops.  Because this is specific to the water level, I assumed it was air or it was because of the added displacement by having the fine pad in the basket.  I tucked the media into the basket and made sure it was below the line I try to recommend.  Essentially I made sure it was in there a "bit neater" and lowered the height of the media itself in the basket.  This did help with the bypass!!!!  What an annoying thing to have to deal with.

Here is the results following the adjustment.  Flow was able to be adjusted down to about 15-20% before I saw the bypass stopping.  It's still not acceptable, but I do want to point this slight difference out for the sake of how critical something so trivial can be.
 

I am going to take the Tidal 75 I have off of my other tank and replace it with my Tidal 35.  I already have 2 sponges and another filter on the tank, so the Tidal is there just to allow me to run carbon when need be.  I'll attach some photos, potentially play around with that one a bit as well, but I wanted to mention it for the sake of clarity if you see a post about it.  I have been running that filter for years previously, but it's been sitting unused for a little while once I had moved the fish out of my QT tank.  It is very different than the other tidals, so I think it's a good one to highlight here as well.

Edited July 27, 2022 by nabokovfan87
random weird autocorrect issue

[nabokovfan87]

I broke it.... I have to dry out the modded basket, reattach the window cover piece that broke off and then let that cure. The fluval mech ceramic media did fit into the bottom of the tidal 55 without issue, didn't help one lick to stop the bypass on the window piece. 

I'll have an update when I have some progress.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/2/2022 at 12:21 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I broke it.... I have to dry out the modded basket, reattach the window cover piece that broke off and then let that cure. The fluval mech ceramic media did fit into the bottom of the tidal 55 without issue, didn't help one lick to stop the bypass on the window piece. 

I'll have an update when I have some progress.

Oh noes... the plastic got too weak in that area, you think?

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/2/2022 at 5:19 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Oh noes... the plastic got too weak in that area, you think?

The stuff I was using was very flexible, very thin. I went to pull the basket out and just completely forgot it was there.  The silicone itself isn't great at bonding to the plastic.  Very smooth, molded plastic, and the cover piece is very smooth as well.  There's a few ways to handle it, bonding holes is the easiest way, or prepping the surface properly.

Typical bonding prep:
1. Clean the surface well  (usually isopropyl alcohol or Acetone depending on material)
2. Scuff the surface wish a metal brush, scotch brite pad, or some other media
3. Re-Clean the surface
4. Apply the adhesive
5. Clean off excess

I think I found some better plastic to use in the cover, but something like super glue compared to silicone for this use might be a better use for something flexible.  the only reason to avoid use of that right now is because it's mostly destructive and melts plastic when it bonds it. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by nabokovfan87
missing a dot

[nabokovfan87]

Weight results on the "mech" type of ceramic media that can be used in the bottom of the tidals.
Note: Viability of these is not proven or tested, this is simply to show the difference in weight.  We do know biomax will not work well because it is too light.

Aquaclear Biomax: 0.9g per piece (This is not a mech type of media, but what I had available, it will easily hold air internally)


Sicce Bioker / Eheim Mech: 1.6g per piece (will not hold air)


Fluval "Fluval Pre-Filter Media" mech: 3.5g per piece (about 2x the size of the standard mech, slightly porous, but will not hold air)

[nabokovfan87]

I think this is iteration 5 of this setup.  I have a log I'm keeping on the side.  As you can see the holes here are pretty big.  I replaced this with the bioker / mech version which is a little narrower in size, bigger hole.  I do have an issue, but I want to see how this functions for now.



I cleaned out the HoB due to slowed flow on the pump, which usually means heavy bits are stuck in the pump and the pump housing.

THIS IS WHY.... I don't want to give you my "optimal setup" because I would like to test through these issues.  This is the second time this happened.  First time was due to the same reason (plants and moss in the water column, sucked into the pump housing) and my solution was to give that pump more intake to be able to push that stuff up the chute.  Tested and proven, this isn't the method.  So we are back to a fully modded intake, no midwater and no skimmer on the setup anymore and I will not be using that for any further testing.

I do have algae going nuts, but we'll see how things change now that CO2 is on the tank.

I'll let everyone know how things progress.  One of these days, I'd like to get all this "muck" into the sponge in the filter basket!!!!!

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/2/2022 at 9:31 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Weight results on the "mech" type of ceramic media that can be used in the bottom of the tidals.
Note: Viability of these is not proven or tested, this is simply to show the difference in weight.  We do know biomax will not work well because it is too light.

Aquaclear Biomax: 0.9g per piece (This is not a mech type of media, but what I had available, it will easily hold air internally)


Sicce Bioker / Eheim Mech: 1.6g per piece (will not hold air)


Fluval "Fluval Pre-Filter Media" mech: 3.5g per piece (about 2x the size of the standard mech, slightly porous, but will not hold air)

The heavier the better then?

On 8/5/2022 at 7:13 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

First time was due to the same reason (plants and moss in the water column, sucked into the pump housing)

A prefilter sponge is a great option to prevent this.

Also side note: if you’re going to post disgusting photos you need to follow that up with a photo of a cute fish or something! LOL 🤢+🐠

Edited August 6, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/6/2022 at 2:18 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

A prefilter sponge is a great option to prevent this.

I had to order some. I got the nano and the medium on the way. Hopefully one of them fits.  I'm also going to take the dremel and drill some holes in the intake base. 

On 8/6/2022 at 2:18 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Also side note: if you’re going to post disgusting photos you need to follow that up with a photo of a cute fish or something! LOL 🤢+🐠

Had to scrape the glass to do that.  I just did that.  Waiting for the filter to suck everything up.

Because I fixed the pump, CO2 is back to being too low again. 😞

[nabokovfan87]

Sidenote..... I just realized I put the test strip down about 3-5 hours ago to check nitrate levels and never went back to check it.

FUN.  

But here ya go @Chick-In-Of-TheSea Hopefully this helps!

My Clown Pleco (This is the second one I got) It looks like a rio negro variety:


Mr. Amano trying to do the hard labor of cleaning this frickin' algae in the tank and one of the corys was apparently the focus for my phone.  Thanks Sony.


A rare 4 oto sighting today


The corydoras went to hide out in the shade amongst all the commotion.  Luigi is front and center up top there, my first clown pleco.  The other one is unnamed.  I have no idea if these are the same species or if they would ever breed.  Since treating with meds they look SO MUCH healthier.


The big female cory and one of her children


Luigi wanted his photo taken too. LOL.  The bigger clown pushed him out of the way (or her) but clearly we both know luigi is the boss.


Finally, the family shot.

[redfish]

Are the white lines the worms you are having issues with?

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/6/2022 at 4:58 PM, redfish said:

Are the white lines the worms you are having issues with?

The white lines in the bottom picture are just CO2 bubbles and the camera shutter being slow.  I believe I got all the worms dealt with.  I'm having algae issues / plant matter clogging the bumps up.  It's just slowing down testing while the moss converts and grows in. The plants all have new growth, but we'll see how they do long term.  The hairgrass is just about destroyed at this point.

I modded the intake pipe, drilled holes in the base of it to open it up.  It doesn't have to look pretty, but if you DO want it to look pretty I would suggest a 3x3 grid on the bottom of the intake itself.  I used a 1/8" drill bit.  I did a cross of 4 on N, E, W, S angles of the existing hole, then a hole on the 45 degree mark of either of those.  Once I get the intake sponges I'll add some updates photos and hopefully have everything setup for a final, FINAL, test.

[redfish]

Oh wow.  That's CO2 blurs.  They look just like little worms.  Not that I wish worms on anyone.
 

On 8/6/2022 at 7:44 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I modded the intake pipe, drilled holes in the base of it to open it up.  It doesn't have to look pretty, but if you DO want it to look pretty I would suggest a 3x3 grid on the bottom of the intake itself.  I used a 1/8" drill bit.  I did a cross of 4 on N, E, W, S angles of the existing hole, then a hole on the 45 degree mark of either of those.  Once I get the intake sponges I'll add some updates photos and hopefully have everything setup for a final, FINAL, test.

I've read through and got caught up on your modding adventures and experiments.  Keep up the good work and looking forward to seeing the final results.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/6/2022 at 2:02 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I'm also going to take the dremel and drill some holes in the intake base

Um… you wanted the intake to suck up LESS stuff, yes? 🧐

On 8/6/2022 at 4:22 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

The big female cory and one of her children

That female is a big ol’ chonker, isn’t she!  Do you have the light on red setting or do their backs have red coloration? I like their gray color - very sharkish.

On 8/6/2022 at 4:22 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Luigi is front and center up top there, my first clown pleco.  The other one is unnamed. 

Luigi is an Italian name. They could be mob bros. Well, you said Luigi is the [mob] boss. The other one could be the henchman. Vinnie or Antonio or something. Unless it’s a girl! Also Meatball is an Italian name, and I’m pretty sure it’s gender-neutral and a very clowning-around name. 🤣 (I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a clown pleco before - they are awesome!)

On 8/6/2022 at 4:22 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Mr. Amano trying to do the hard labor of cleaning this frickin' algae

Does he have helpers?

Thanks for humoring me with fish (and shrimp!)  photos. You’ve bought yourself some rights to post more pics of gunk and slime and stuff. ⭐️

P.S. How is the weight of the ceramic media important?

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/6/2022 at 6:36 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Um… you wanted the intake to suck up LESS stuff, yes? 🧐

It'll have an intake sponge now. Mandatory for normal operation.

On 8/6/2022 at 6:36 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

That female is a big ol’ chonker, isn’t she!  Do you have the light on red setting or do their backs have red coloration? I like their gray color - very sharkish.

Yes they have a slightly reddish or red orange coloration. They are a variant of gold flash corydoras from what I've found. Information is really unclear on what specific ones were used to make these guys. They were marketed incorrectly too, so that helps.  More info on this elsewhere I can find that thread again if you're intrigued 🙂  (Edit: Found it)
 

On 8/6/2022 at 6:36 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Luigi is an Italian name. They could be mob bros. Well, you said Luigi is the [mob] boss. The other one could be the henchman. Vinnie or Antonio or something. Unless it’s a girl! Also Meatball is an Italian name, and I’m pretty sure it’s gender-neutral and a very clowning-around name. 🤣 (I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a clown pleco before - they are awesome!)

I think they both are! And yeah, absolutely intriguing species for me. Especially the fancy varieties that look like they have bold intense colorations.  (Edit: Random clown searches.  LOVE EM)

On 8/6/2022 at 6:36 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Does he have helpers?

Thanks for humoring me with fish (and shrimp!)  photos. You’ve bought yourself some rights to post more pics of gunk and slime and stuff. ⭐️

P.S. How is the weight of the ceramic media important?

She does!! Well. She had more help a few weeks ago, but has definitely has a lot of help. Last week I was checking on the tank and 6 amanos we're having a meeting in the moss all facing each other trying to get this hair algae. They literally didn't make a dent and spent all day there.

And thank you, sometimes we need a reminder to take our head above the muck and enjoy the view. 😉

When it comes to the ceramic stuff, I'll do a deep dive. The biomax stuff was floated and pushed to the side, as shown here:

 

On 7/26/2022 at 9:35 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Which sucks because then the water just randomly bypassed through the opening.

The other stuff I am trying doesn't have the correct geometry, but I am proving things out through all the testing right now.  One running, one completed, and a surprise contender might be the final recommendation.  We'll see how it all shapes out.

Edited August 7, 2022 by nabokovfan87
added link

[nabokovfan87]

Prefilter added. We'll see how it goes.  this is the ACO medium size.  It really does not have a hold near big enough for this intake so you're going to cut it by hand and that might be difficult for some.  I don't really have another option and using a fine pore sponge will likely end up with the pump choking out.  I turned off the filter, installed it, and I really just don't have an ease of access to this for cleaning.  I'll figure it out, but I know it's going to be an issue in this scape.

I repaired the basket that broke.  Setup right now is just interim.  I did end up doing the bonding holes, I scuffed up the plastic, and I cleaned and prepped the surfaces properly.  We'll see how it holds up.