Small breed for profit experiment for plants question

[lmhicks101]

So I’m considering getting a 75 gallon tank and setting up a small breed for profit for my LFS and some friends. I’m thinking 90% beginner plants like trident or lace java, wendti, swords, Guppy grass, Pogo Octopus, and ludwigia. The other 10% would be rarer stuff like Pink flamingo, Anubis marble, and some Buce Sekadau Giant Blue. 

I’m also considering adding in guppies or neo shrimp for bioload and for extra profit so I’ll need to do a couple sponge filters and an air stone as I’ll be doing C02 and 2 bubbles per second. Do you think this will be a nice set up or should I try something else? 

[KBOzzie59]

Guppys and shrimp.  The shrimp are fantastic for getting the really small stuff and guppy poop.

[lmhicks101]

On 5/11/2022 at 7:31 PM, KBOzzie59 said:

Guppys and shrimp.  The shrimp are fantastic for getting the really small stuff and guppy poop.

Guppies for the most part will leave neos alone?

[KBOzzie59]

On 5/11/2022 at 4:50 PM, lmhicks101 said:

Guppies for the most part will leave neos alone?

Just give the shrimp places to hide and you will have more than you or your LFS will know what to do with.

 

And our 20 long is quite a diverse crowd.

[JettsPapa]

Here's my input, and I guarantee it's worth what it costs you.

The plant selection depends on your market.  If you're wanting to sell to local stores, find out what they don't already have, and grow that.  You can't compete with their normal wholesalers.  That's why I sell mostly guppy grass, pearl weed, and subwassertang.  The only time I've seen any of those in a store is when either I or the owner grew it, and the owners don't generally want to take the time.  If your market is selling directly to consumers then the ones you mentioned are fine.

By the way, there are advantages to both markets.  Selling to consumers you can of course get more money per item, but it's also a lot more hassle, and more labor intensive in general.  I do some of both, but I prefer wholesale.  I'd rather make one $200.00 sale than four $25.00 sales, even if it takes more product to get there.

A 75 gallon tank will probably work okay, but I'd give serious thought to something that isn't as tall but still has a good footprint, like a 40 gallon breeder.  You'll be working in this tank a lot.  I'd rather be getting wet up to my elbows instead of shoulder.  Also, a less intensive light will work since it's closer to the plants.

I wouldn't recommend shrimp in the same tank with your plants if you're going to be dosing with CO2.  Shrimp are sensitive to the pH fluctuations you get with that.  It can be done, but you have to be careful.  You can grow a lot of shrimp in a 10 gallon tank, and there are plenty of plants you can grow in it that do just fine without CO2.

[Tihshho]

If you want to grow plants and have the space, the best thing to do is build a rack and use cheap tanks, cheap terrariums or large rubber maid bins. Emersed growth is a ton faster to get, and you can convert it in one tank prior to sale. It's cheaper to setup for variety and you don't have to crowd a tank and worry about EI dosing long term. Growing plants paid off when I was able to sell converted plants to the LFS and local hobbyists, even getting more than the LFS paid wholesalers because they didn't get a freight charge for the order. Knowing plants were converted prior to receiving them was a big hit too because they didn't have to deal with conversion woes in their sale tanks. 

[lmhicks101]

On 5/12/2022 at 2:37 PM, Tihshho said:

If you want to grow plants and have the space, the best thing to do is build a rack and use cheap tanks, cheap terrariums or large rubber maid bins. Emersed growth is a ton faster to get, and you can convert it in one tank prior to sale. It's cheaper to setup for variety and you don't have to crowd a tank and worry about EI dosing long term. Growing plants paid off when I was able to sell converted plants to the LFS and local hobbyists, even getting more than the LFS paid wholesalers because they didn't get a freight charge for the order. Knowing plants were converted prior to receiving them was a big hit too because they didn't have to deal with conversion woes in their sale tanks. 

Thank you for the input. So I bought a small growth of 5 pink flamingos that came in a culture from petco for $15 and grew them out for a little and sold 2 for $15. One died but keeping the others to see if I can grow them out. Is there a specific place you buy yours from and do you have any pics of your set up?

[lmhicks101]

On 5/12/2022 at 2:23 PM, JettsPapa said:

Here's my input, and I guarantee it's worth what it costs you.

The plant selection depends on your market.  If you're wanting to sell to local stores, find out what they don't already have, and grow that.  You can't compete with their normal wholesalers.  That's why I sell mostly guppy grass, pearl weed, and subwassertang.  The only time I've seen any of those in a store is when either I or the owner grew it, and the owners don't generally want to take the time.  If your market is selling directly to consumers then the ones you mentioned are fine.

By the way, there are advantages to both markets.  Selling to consumers you can of course get more money per item, but it's also a lot more hassle, and more labor intensive in general.  I do some of both, but I prefer wholesale.  I'd rather make one $200.00 sale than four $25.00 sales, even if it takes more product to get there.

A 75 gallon tank will probably work okay, but I'd give serious thought to something that isn't as tall but still has a good footprint, like a 40 gallon breeder.  You'll be working in this tank a lot.  I'd rather be getting wet up to my elbows instead of shoulder.  Also, a less intensive light will work since it's closer to the plants.

I wouldn't recommend shrimp in the same tank with your plants if you're going to be dosing with CO2.  Shrimp are sensitive to the pH fluctuations you get with that.  It can be done, but you have to be careful.  You can grow a lot of shrimp in a 10 gallon tank, and there are plenty of plants you can grow in it that do just fine without CO2.

Thank you for that. The guppies we’re going to be feeder guppies since people in this area want to start giving healthy feeders to their fish. 

[Tihshho]

On 5/12/2022 at 4:54 PM, lmhicks101 said:

Is there a specific place you buy yours from and do you have any pics of your set up?

This was the latest picture I had of my old setup before I stopped documenting it. After I got the plants I needed I ended up tearing it down due to losing a handful of plants from a mishap that happened when I was away on vacation and left it... 

In terms of where I get my plants, I'm not sure I can post other vendors online. All I can say is that I'm not currently impressed with some of the Aquarium Plant specific companies out there right now. They might have great selection, but the quality, packaging and shipping is lacking. This is something the ACO team has seemed to figure out with their correct use of heatpacks as well as using their insulated sleeves. Due to the whole debacle of styrofoam killing our environment a lot of companies have stopped using it or are banned from using it in their state (for the US) and litterally send bagged plants in an uninsulated box with a heat pack that is bouncing around and unsecured. 

I would start with ACO plants if you're looking for a good source, aside from that, shop local. 

[lmhicks101]

@Tihshho So just making sure I’m looking this right. You had 6 10 gallons and 10 large rubber mades with low water in them converting emersed to submersed growth then selling to the LFS and consumers? You kept them in the rock wool and didn’t breed them? What light did you use and what was your over head cost compared to profit? 

[Tihshho]

On 5/12/2022 at 6:03 PM, lmhicks101 said:

@Tihshho So just making sure I’m looking this right. You had 6 10 gallons and 10 large rubber mades with low water in them converting emersed to submersed growth then selling to the LFS and consumers? You kept them in the rock wool and didn’t breed them? What light did you use and what was your over head cost compared to profit? 

This is x6 10 gallon tanks and 10 seed starters, not rubbermaids. I was using the seed starters for carpeting plants, but you can use a rubbermaid for all of this rather than tanks. All plants I got were in-vitro cultures, I didn't start with any rock wool plants and the only plants that were not in-vitro were various oddball javafern species, sword plant, some anubias, eriocaulons and trithuria. I separated the cultures, set up pots with an organic potting soil mix I made, and planted worked to get the plants growing from in-vitro to rooted soil based growth. I had various bits of melting and had to adjust the humditiy and the heat accordingly. Once plants became established (crypts, carpeting plants, and erio's being the first) I then transferred the daughter plants from the additional growth over to a submersed planted tank. Plants were rinsed as to not have soil and were grown submersed for a few months in a high tech setup with aquasoil. From there I'd pull plants that converted and offer them to the LFS as well as online in local groups. 

Lights were nothing special for emersed growth, simple plant LED strips on a 12 hour cycle. 

I prefer not to get into exact numbers, but what I ended up selling was a decent sum that was able to cover the intial investment and still leave me with profit. If I didn't have a misshap on vacation I would have still been able to sell a good amount of other plants later down the line, but I never got in the hole. 

On 5/12/2022 at 6:03 PM, lmhicks101 said:

You kept them in the rock wool and didn’t breed them?

Also, you don't 'breed' plants you propegate them. 

[keddre]

If I was to do plants for profit again, I would do truly aquatic plants (like val, and bulbs) with dirt and airstones. Then you won't need to dose liquids as much, won't have to worry about melting as much, save money on CO2 and true aquatics will grow faster (in my experience) than marginals do. Obviously your tank/water is different than mine, but java ferns and crypts don't grow fast enough for me to make it worth trying to "mass produce".

Side note, my LFS kicks me extra money if I pot them or bundle them ahead of time...A significant amount of extra

Second side note, In My Opinion you won't really make money of a high tech setup. Once you factor in lights, gas, and ferts, you're spending more money than it's worth. The more variables you can delete, the more stable you will be. My best "profit" on anything is the summer time when I throw my plants outside with solar air pumps, gunk and mother nature

Edit: Forgot to add, once you get bulb plants going you can "propagate" them by twisting the bulb off, fridging it for a couple months (make sure it's a dry season bulb), and sell the plant that you twisted free...This doesn't apply to crinums

Edited May 13, 2022 by keddre

[Tihshho]

On 5/13/2022 at 11:22 AM, keddre said:

Second side note, In My Opinion you won't really make money of a high tech setup. Once you factor in lights, gas, and ferts, you're spending more money than it's worth. The more variables you can delete, the more stable you will be. My best "profit" on anything is the summer time when I throw my plants outside with solar air pumps, gunk and mother nature

100% agree. The tank I grew everything out in was a display that had an open gap in a scape that I decided to repurpose after I had a mat of UG come up and I couldn't for the life of me get started again. If I set this up intentionally for growth to sell I'd have been in the hole. I should have clarified that. 

[keddre]

On 5/13/2022 at 11:39 AM, Tihshho said:

100% agree. The tank I grew everything out in was a display that had an open gap in a scape that I decided to repurpose after I had a mat of UG come up and I couldn't for the life of me get started again. If I set this up intentionally for growth to sell I'd have been in the hole. I should have clarified that. 

You're setup is sweet and I was not attacking you. It actually looks like it has pretty low overhead, some LEDs and wallspace. The daisy-chained extension cords are a little scary though 🤣

[Tihshho]

On 5/13/2022 at 12:06 PM, keddre said:

The daisy-chained extension cords are a little scary though 🤣

You're telling me. I put a killawatt on it to see if I was literally playing with fire and thankfully the loads were nothing crazy. Just 5 LED strips with giant brick plugs, one old style CFL fixture, and 3 seedling heater mats under each row plugged into a hydrofarm temp controller. Was concerned with the heat mat wattage, but it wasn't anything of big concern at the time when I looked at the numbers.

Power strips were mainly for the bricks blocking slots and to reach cables per row.

Edit: thinking back to it I think this was when I was testing tiny pumps to see if having water circulation helped with anything, but ended up pulling the 6 pumps down the line.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Tihshho

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/11/2022 at 4:13 PM, lmhicks101 said:

I’ll be doing C02 and 2 bubbles per second

likely will need more CO2, but adjust this over time.

 

 

On 5/11/2022 at 4:13 PM, lmhicks101 said:

So I’m considering getting a 75 gallon tank and setting up a small breed for profit for my LFS and some friends. I’m thinking 90% beginner plants like trident or lace java, wendti, swords, Guppy grass, Pogo Octopus, and ludwigia. The other 10% would be rarer stuff like Pink flamingo, Anubis marble, and some Buce Sekadau Giant Blue. 

I would focus on a few areas. I don't think a 75G fits those needs.

I would set a rack with a few tanks focused on a few key items.
1. A tank with carpeting plants that are easy to pull a mat of and portion out.
2. Stems
3. "special care" high tech or high demand plants that have higher value.
4. Easy stuff that is easy to propagate. (even mosses work very well)

Edited May 13, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 5/11/2022 at 4:13 PM, lmhicks101 said:

So I’m considering getting a 75 gallon tank and setting up a small breed for profit for my LFS and some friends. I’m thinking 90% beginner plants like trident or lace java, wendti, swords, Guppy grass, Pogo Octopus, and ludwigia. The other 10% would be rarer stuff like Pink flamingo, Anubis marble, and some Buce Sekadau Giant Blue. 

I’m also considering adding in guppies or neo shrimp for bioload and for extra profit so I’ll need to do a couple sponge filters and an air stone as I’ll be doing C02 and 2 bubbles per second. Do you think this will be a nice set up or should I try something else? 

Hi @Imhicks

Over the last 12 months I have "sold" (actually store credits) several hundreds of dollars of plants to LFS.  Almost all of those plants came out of two tanks.

Plants that the LFS can buy from wholesalers / plant farms / tissue culture farms are very difficult to sell for decent price since I am competing with many other entities.  Selling plants that are unusual, difficult to find, or difficult to ship tend to generate top dollar.  Of course the plants need to be top quality with no algae, parasites, disease, and cleaned - and if stems then they should be "bunched" with a reasonable amount stems so it looks 'full' in the tank.  I try to provide plants that I would be glad to buy if I was the customer.

As for CO2 likely 2 bps will not do the job for a 75 gallon - more likely it will be double that amount.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Seattle_Aquarist

[lmhicks101]

I appreciate everyone’s input. I think I’m going to go with the cheap rack method a few people recommended. I’ll probably do the basic plants but also try some Val and an rare plant or 2. Before I do anything though I’m gonna keep reading up and watching videos on care and set up so I understand how propagating and the ins and outs of packaging and selling works before I get anything going. Thank you everyone.