Help with nitrites

[Tabithol]

Hello. I’m hoping for some help. I have a planted low tech tank with Java fern, Java moss, cryptocorne, Aponogeton crispus, Java sword, bacopa caroliniana, petite anubias and some pothos coming out of the tank. The tank is a 20 gallon long with a stingray light. I have aqua soil, crushed coral and a sponge filter. Temp is 77-82. I have new plant growth and thought my tank was cycled. Tank is 3 weeks old with 1 nerite, 1 mystery and 3 guppies. Parameters were looking good until I tried to place root tabs. I didn’t know to punch a hole in them so they wouldn’t float. They all floated and dissolved pretty immediately. Since then nitrites are reading 1.0, nitrates 20-30 and ammonia 0. I am doing 20% daily water changes with fritz complete as a conditioner and adding fritz zyme 7. I am feeding 0-1 times per day. Nitrite goes down to 0.25-0.5 with water change and is up again the next day. Thanks to all those who read this long post. Any help/advice is much appreciated!

Edited April 11, 2022 by Tabithol
Adding information

[Colu]

I would up the water changes to 50% a day and add a double dose of fritz complete you can add a small amount of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 10 gallons that will help with any possible nitirte poisoning and at that level won't harm your plants as for bottled bacterial just my opinion other people might disagree I think it's a waste of money and doesn't do very much as you have its to hand it won't hurt use it

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/11/2022 at 12:05 PM, Tabithol said:

I have a planted low tech tank with Java fern, Java moss, cryptocorne, Aponogeton crispus, Java sword, bacopa caroliniana, petite anubias and some pothos coming out of the tank.

I would say the majority of the plants you have here are slow growing. Just something to keep in mind when it comes to the fert schedule and what you're putting in the tank.  I don't have photos and how much of what plant is pretty critical to give any fert advice. The Bacopa Coroliniana, crispus, and sword plant will grow pretty fast and set the tone, but everything else is going to need a bit milder dosing schedule.

For the sake of anyone who goes through a similar situation, and if you need to dramatically lower nitrites in a tank:

If possible, move the fish temporarily (if you have a sponge filter, move that and the fish to a bucket for a few hours). Ensure the bucket is covered with a towel or something to keep it dark and reduce stress on the fish.

Take your hand and gently disturb the substrate, find the root tabs if you need to remove any or ensure they are pushed all the way down to the bottom of the substrate. The goal is to get as much of the mulm or whatever is buried in the substrate to the water column. Then perform a very large water change (75-90%).  Refill the tank with water and then run a test and report back.  As mentioned, the fish can use some salt to help if there is any extremely high spikes.

At this point, slowly acclimate the fish to the new tank water (adding some to the bucket with a cup or drip acclimation) over an hour or two. Then return everything to the tank.

If you simply have "high nitrite" and you think it's something more than a fertilization issue, go ahead and get some bacteria from a bottle, which you're already doing, going for the next week to try and boost the speed on the tank cycle.

Edited April 11, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Scott Stevenson]

I know this is off on a tangent, but I'm trying to understand the floating root tabs, part of this story. I've used root tabs in the past without putting holes in them. never had a floating root tab. Is the tank bare bottom, is the layer of substrate very thin or did you maybe not bury them very deep? This is not me trying to be judgmental, just trying to understand. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/11/2022 at 5:29 PM, Scott Stevenson said:

I know this is off on a tangent, but I'm trying to understand the floating root tabs, part of this story. I've used root tabs in the past without putting holes in them. never had a floating root tab. Is the tank bare bottom, is the layer of substrate very thin or did you maybe not bury them very deep? This is not me trying to be judgmental, just trying to understand. 

just depends on how thick the substrate is. Some people have very shallow substrate, others have 4+ inches.

[Tabithol]

On 4/11/2022 at 4:03 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I would say the majority of the plants you have here are slow growing. Just something to keep in mind when it comes to the fert schedule and what you're putting in the tank.  I don't have photos and how much of what plant is pretty critical to give any fert advice. The Bacopa Coroliniana, crispus, and sword plant will grow pretty fast and set the tone, but everything else is going to need a bit milder dosing schedule.

For the sake of anyone who goes through a similar situation, and if you need to dramatically lower nitrites in a tank:

If possible, move the fish temporarily (if you have a sponge filter, move that and the fish to a bucket for a few hours). Ensure the bucket is covered with a towel or something to keep it dark and reduce stress on the fish.

Take your hand and gently disturb the substrate, find the root tabs if you need to remove any or ensure they are pushed all the way down to the bottom of the substrate. The goal is to get as much of the mulm or whatever is buried in the substrate to the water column. Then perform a very large water change (75-90%).  Refill the tank with water and then run a test and report back.  As mentioned, the fish can use some salt to help if there is any extremely high spikes.

At this point, slowly acclimate the fish to the new tank water (adding some to the bucket with a cup or drip acclimation) over an hour or two. Then return everything to the tank.

If you simply have "high nitrite" and you think it's something more than a fertilization issue, go ahead and get some bacteria from a bottle, which you're already doing, going for the next week to try and boost the speed on the tank cycle.

Okay done. Ammonia=0, ph=7.6, 0 nitrites and nitrates. I added bacteria because I had it but no aquarium salt. Should I go get some? 

[Wrencher_Scott]

Salt is to help fish when you have high nitrites. Salt is bad for plants. Quit adding stuff and let it run testing as you go. 3 weeks is not very old, it likely has not cycled completely because you have changed so much water and because 3 weeks is just not enough time. Just let it run and don't fertilize until the plants show new growth.  

Edited April 12, 2022 by Wrencher_Scott

[PaigeIs]

On 4/11/2022 at 12:05 PM, Tabithol said:

Tank is 3 weeks old with

Three weeks for a new cycle is not very long.  Unless you started with material from a mature tank, you can expect to wait from 4-6 weeks or longer for the cycle to complete.  Doing water changes only prolongs the process.  It's soooo hard to wait.  I'm fairly new to the hobby myself, and I killed a bunch of fish by being impatient (RIP Jet, Edamame).  Also, have you tried adding something like Seachem Prime as an emergency measure?  It won't hurt your plants.

It's possible that the problem is simply that the tank is not fully cycled yet.  What are the nitrate parameters? 

You might also find this thread helpful.  

 

[Tabithol]

I am using fritz complete which looks like it is similar to seachem prime. It removes chlorine and neutralizes nitrites and ammonia. Is seachem Prime better?

[HH Morant]

All of the products below say they remove or detoxify ammonia and nitrites. They all have proprietary formulas. Proprietary means it is secret and not like anybody else's formula. So you can see there are at least a dozen different secret formulas that detoxify ammonia and nitrite. The chemists who say that is not chemically possible must be mistaken.

AquaLife Complete Water Conditioner – "Removes Chlorine, Ammonia, and Chloramines."

AquaLife Complete Water Conditioner – "Detoxifies Nitrite and Heavy Metals."

Aqueon Ammonia Neutralizer: "Neutralizes ammonia and nitrites that can build up in the aquarium water"

API Ammo Lock: “API Ammo Lock ammonia detoxifier is proven to convert poisonous ammonia into a non-toxic form. Ammo Lock ammonia detoxifier works instantly in both fresh and salt water aquariums, removing ammonia, chlorine, and chloramines. Note that if your aquarium tests positive for ammonia, it is necessary to perform a partial water change first, and then neutralize the ammonia."

Brightwell Aquatics Erase CL – "Removes chloramines, chlorine, ammonia and nitrites from tap water as well as aquarium water."

Brightwell Aquatics Shrimp Prep – "Safely removes chlorine, chloramines, and ammonia and detoxifies heavy metals…."

Brightwell Aquatics Shrimp Prep – "Removes chloramines, chlorine, ammonia, and nitrites present in tap water and/or aquarium water."

Fritz Complete: "Detoxifies Ammonia, Nitrite, Helps to Reduce Nitrate."

Fritz Complete: "Use when setting up new aquariums, performing water changes or to quickly alleviate high ammonia, nitrite and nitrate."

Fritz Complete: FAQ - "If I remove all ammonia, will it harm the bacteria colony? Fritz Complete binds with ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate making them harmless to the inhabitants while still bioavailable to the beneficial bacteria."

Fritz Complete: "Does the ammonia or nitrite get released back after a certain amount of time? No, the water conditioner does not only temporarily bind the toxic ammonia or nitrite, and won't be released back into the water column after any period of time. The detoxified ammonia and nitrite are removed by nitrification or water changes."

Fritz A.C.C.R. – A.C.C.R. Stands for "Ammonia, Chlorine and Chloramine Remover."

Fritz A.C.C.R.: "Using this dosage, 1.0 mg/L ammonia will be instantly eliminated … .”

Fritz A.C.C.R.: "… Avoid water changes by adding ACCR to detoxify one ppm ammonia per dose.”

Fritz A.C.C.R.: “… binds with ammonia making them [sic] harmless to the inhabitants while still bioavailable to the beneficial bacteria."

Fritz A.C.C.R.: FAQ "Does the ammonia or nitrite get released back after a certain amount of time? No, the water conditioner does not only temporarily bind the toxic ammonia or nitrite, and won't be released back into the water column after any period of time. [sic] the detoxified ammonia and nitrite are removed by nitrification or water changes."

Kordon Amquel Ammonia Remover (some labels say "Detoxifier" rather than "Remover," which is the label shown on Amazon) – "Removes Ammonia, Chlorine & Chloramines."

Kordon Amquel – “A True One-step Liquid Chlorine, Chloramine, And Ammonia Remover."

Kordon Amquel – Kordon Amquel, developed over 20 years ago, is the original product that established the state-of-the-art in water conditioning technology regarding ammonia removal."

Kordon Amquel – Amquel is the first to be a true one-step liquid ammonia and chloramine remover that is simple to use."

Kordon Amquel Plus - "Amquel Plus does all that Amquel does and a significant number of additional tasks as well."

Kordon Amquel  Plus –“Amquel Plus is a remarkable new discovery that is … safely detoxifying natural nitrogen compounds in the water, including nitrites and nitrates. Thereby, the use of Amquel Plus greatly reduces the need for continual water changes…."

Kordon Amquel Plus – Amquel Plus should be used for setting up aquariums or ponds, for water changes, overcrowded aquariums and ponds, the control of toxic nitrogen compounds commonly found in water while the nitrogen cycle is established… As well as afterwards as nitrogen compounds accumulate in the aquarium and pond water."

Microbe-Lift XTA16 Xtreme Water Conditioner – "Removes toxic ammonia."

MicrobeAct Ammonia Remover - Every ounce removes 1.25 bpm of toxic ammonia per 150 gallons of pond water by forming an irreversible complex to reduce free ammonia to safe levels; treats ammonia burn in pond fish.

 Seachem Safe: “Removes Chlorine, Chloramine, and Ammonia.”

Seachem Safe: “Detoxifies Nitrite and Nitrate.”

Seachem Safe: "It contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them."

Seachem AmGuard: "Detoxifies ammonia for up to 72 hours."

Seachem AmGuard: "Removes ammonia in Marine and Freshwater."

Seachem AmGuard: “Detoxified ammonia will not harm fish, but is still readable by "Total Ammonia" test kits. Do not be alarmed if your Total Ammonia test kit continues to register ammonia after dosing AmGuard. For most accurate dosing, it is recommended to use the "Ammonia Alert" to detect toxic ammonia."

Seachem AmGuard: FAQ -"If AmGuard is removing ammonia from the system, won’t that starve the beneficial bacteria? A: AmGuard does not remove ammonia from the system. It simply binds ammonia making it harmless to the inhabitants and still bio-available to the beneficial bacteria."

Seachem AmGuard: "AmGuard safely, rapidly, and if efficiently removes toxic free ammonia.”

Seachem AmGuard: "AmGuard works within minutes to detoxify free ammonia, and unlike competing products, converts it into a safe non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter."

TankFirst Water Conditioner – "instantly removes chlorine, chloramines, ammonia, and nitrites from water." (On label, seen on Amazon)

Tetra AmmoniaSafe tablets - "How to reduce ammonia in your aquarium and one-step! AmmoniaSafe is a one-step water conditioner that provides superior relief to fish suffering from high ammonia conditions."

Tetra AmmoniaSafe tablets – "Tetra AmmoniaSafe works to rid your tank of dangerous ammonia. This proprietary formula was developed by Tetra to provide superior relief to fish suffering from high ammonia conditions. AmmoniaSafe converts toxic ammonia to a non-toxic form by long-lasting pH reduction…."

Tetra AmmoniaSafe tablets – "Detoxifies dangerous ammonia."

Ultimate Water Conditioner – "Destroys Chloramines, Removes Ammonia, Removes Chlorine, Detoxifies Nitrite…." [It also does a bunch of other things].

Ultimate Water Conditioner – "To fully condition water for (1) new aquariums or ponds (2) after or during water additions, or (3) before adding new fishes, amphibians, invertebrates or plants…."

Ultimate Water Conditioner – "Because We Care: Ultimate has been developed to offer a completely safe environment for aquatic life and for ease of use by the user. Look for the Cloram-X logo and the U.S. patent number to assure yourself you are getting the original ammonia removing product!"

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/12/2022 at 8:32 AM, Tabithol said:

Okay done. Ammonia=0, ph=7.6, 0 nitrites and nitrates. I added bacteria because I had it but no aquarium salt. Should I go get some? 

it's one of the few things everyone should have on hand. yes.   You may not need to add any to the tank, but in the case of you're having nitrites or ammonia at extremely high levels and the fish are not doing well, you can add it to help out.  The bacteria is to boost your cycle, you're going to be adding some every day for the next 7 days. That's usually the directions on the bottle, but follow whatever it says on the bottle.

 

On 4/12/2022 at 10:30 AM, Tabithol said:

I am using fritz complete which looks like it is similar to seachem prime. It removes chlorine and neutralizes nitrites and ammonia. Is seachem Prime better?

They do the same thing. Seachem is the "name brand" so to speak, that's all.

[Tabithol]

The bacteria instructions do not say to add daily, it just says monitor ammonia and nitrite levels daily. How high can I let the nitrite go before I do a water change? How often should I be doing water changes?

[AndEEss]

On 4/12/2022 at 2:42 PM, Tabithol said:

The bacteria instructions do not say to add daily, it just says monitor ammonia and nitrite levels daily. How high can I let the nitrite go before I do a water change? How often should I be doing water changes?

You understand that nitrite is toxic to your fish, right? And that they are being killed by it?

Ideally, you should have zero nitrite, and any time you DO detect nitrite, you should do a 50% water change. In your case, I'd do a 50% water change every day. And keep doing it for a while until your tank is properly cycled, meaning, nitrAte is accumulating without any detectable ammonia or nitrite.

[modified lung]

On 4/12/2022 at 1:42 PM, Tabithol said:

The bacteria instructions do not say to add daily, it just says monitor ammonia and nitrite levels daily. How high can I let the nitrite go before I do a water change? How often should I be doing water changes

The amount of nitrite that fish can tolerate depends on the species and it's extremely inconsistent between the different species. Most aquarium fish species haven't been specifically tested but some of the most sensitive ones that have been tested can only tolerate 3 days at as low as 0.3 ppm.

[Tabithol]

Do you think this is a good guide? 

[Patrick_G]

Since you’re now doing a fish in cycle the most important thing is to do frequent water changes. A low PH also helps reduce the toxicity of the ammonia. Don't stress to much about it. Most of us above a certain age have done many fish in cycles without losing any fish. Did you mention how big the tank is? Water volume matters since you can do fewer water changes with a larger tank. 

[Tabithol]

Thanks! It is a 20 gallon long.

[Patrick_G]

On 4/12/2022 at 4:55 PM, Tabithol said:

Thanks! It is a 20 gallon long.

Great, that's a good size considering how many fish you have.

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 4/12/2022 at 3:51 PM, Tabithol said:

Do you think this is a good guide? 

That chart will work, any dechlore will do, it doesn't have to be Prime. That chart is written in a way to make you think you must use Prime. If it works so good why change at all? It's BS.

The high nitrate part is silly. Why do 25% multiple times? just do 1/2 of them at 50%. 

p.s. I know why it says that, I'm just making a point....As long as your change water is dechlorinated correctly you are good to go. 

Like @HH Morant said, the ammonia and nitrite detox claimed by these companies is BS.

[freemoney]

On 4/11/2022 at 8:29 PM, Scott Stevenson said:

I know this is off on a tangent, but I'm trying to understand the floating root tabs, part of this story. I've used root tabs in the past without putting holes in them. never had a floating root tab. Is the tank bare bottom, is the layer of substrate very thin or did you maybe not bury them very deep? This is not me trying to be judgmental, just trying to understand. 

He didn’t place his root tabs deep enough to start. So they floated out off the substrate

[Tabithol]

My substrate is about 1.5-2 inches thick. I pushed them all the way to the bottom but due to being capsules and containing a lot of air I had issues with them floating back up. I’ll do better next time. 

[Scott Stevenson]

I keep my substrate a good 2 inches and never had issue. hope things work out better for you.