Journal - 29G Black Schultzei Corydoras Breeding Project

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/4/2022 at 8:21 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I wonder if your extra nutes are feeding the algae.

Also- staghorn huh? Interesting.

Yeah, I did up the light. I see plants trying to grow with deficiencies in some spots and so the only way to fix that is magically nuke the algae and then dose as needed. I was dosing 2x a week with a decent plant load. That's gone. It's a ton of moss growing which is taking a lot of the fertz. Phosphates are down by about 65-80% and that's supposed to help with some of thos algae. Manual removal, good dosing, good CO2, stability in terms of parameters, and that's just all I can do besides adding more plants to the fire. The algae won't stop this moss, it's doing well, just also is housing the algae 😞 .

It's probably both, but at this point I'm focused on staghorn based on the long strands I get in some spots. I don't think BBA does that. It's long and thin. Grey/white/blue which is just hard to determine based on everything.

[nabokovfan87]

I moved some plants around during this week's maintenance regime.  I slightly re-did the scape and I tried to remove a bunch of the junk in the substrate where I had shown that algae on the gravel itself.  At this point, if I see things progress I might end up removing the top 1/2" or gravel and see how that does.

I got a new python that has a shorter tube (I was using the large, got the medium) which gives me a little bit easier time getting into the little nooks and crannies to keep things clean.   I don't feel great about how the CO2 is doing right now, just meaning I might need to dial it up.  I need to test things and verify it's doing what I need it to.  Right now I am seeing some issues with PH and not acting as it should under CO2 dosing (lower PH when CO2 is dosed in the system due to carbonic acid production).

I moved a little bit of the Staurogyne repens that was in the front by the diffuser to the back corner.  I moved the rocks slightly forward and trying to give the tank a slightly more cohesive look.  For the spraybar I did a dry fit of the slightly stronger pump.  The GPH is 112 on the current pump and would increase to 168.  It's about double the size. This just means I need to mod the spraybar in such a way so that I can maximize the number of holes on the bar.  It's a very short run for the spraybar right now and the first 2" or so doesn't have holes because it's designed to fit the 407 intake setups.  I can totally add them, but I am likely going to have one spraybar for the smaller filter, and then one for the larger pumphead.  The kit I bought came with two pieces, but only one endcap.  I can get another endcap, seal it, or just move the endcap when switching out the pumps.

Algae is still annoying, but I'm doing what I can.  Tank is getting some new fish this week and I hope they like staghorn!  I don't have any idea if they would eat it, but if they do, awesome.

Test Results for the week:
Temp: 72.3
Phosphates: .25
PH: 7.5
GH: 150 (likely dropped due to water treatment changes)
KH: 80
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 10**

**This is why I'm needing to dose more often, plants are using the ferts. I dosed 24 hours ago with a full dose, which is usually about ~25-35 ppm for this tank after a WC.  It's not likely to be from food, which means the nitrates you're seeing above ~5 ppm are from the fertilizer dosing itself.  If dosing 3x a week it would be sunday, tuesday, thursday and up from 2x a week.

Edit: For the time being I've added some plants to the side of a tank and using the overhang of the Fluval 36" to try and light them.  It should mean slightly less intensity on the tank itself (at least on one side), but there is no guarantees.  I'll snap some photos next time, but the goal is to grow some herbs for cooking.  So far onion is doing well, lettuce is by the front porch, but I can move it now 🙂 .  I do have basil and mint and neither of those did well at all.  I am not sure why.  The plants I tend to grow have just been stuff that are beginner friendly and don't require a lot of care.  Growing herbs is slightly more specialized, but wanting to grow that for cooking is a must!!!!

Edited October 11, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

Test Results for the week:
Temp: 72.1
Phosphates: .25-.50
PH: 6.8-7.0
GH: 100-150 (dropped again)
KH: 60
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 20

The above are PRIOR TO any maintenance this week and about 3 hours after CO2 had turned off for the night.

Hey everyone.....

It's been an emotionally exhausting week with this tank.  I've watched it slowly deteriorate over time and that is causing me some concern.  I had an equipment issue, noise, that I had to fix and I was up at 6 AM picking moss and algae out because I couldn't get any real sleep with the added noise from the tank.  There's a few contributing factors here which we will dive into. 

I wanted to try to take some "beautiful algae" shots, but every time I look at this tank now all I see is my own plants dying.  Especially after pulling out some of the plants with massive algae infestations this morning, I am ultimately feeling like pulling literally everything and just chopping the wood out and calling it a day.  I'm that frustrated....

Here's the damage.

This algae is doubling every week at this point. Pulling some, doubles again, etc.  I try to pull / siphon because I have heard that with this stuff if you don't do so and you let it float, then it spreads much faster.  I've also been on the search for some better tweezers to try to remove this stuff from all these surfaces.

Noisemaker #1: My first attempt to rescue the bacopa that is literally a small pile of leaves at this point...  It's a noise box and there's not any way around it.



Noisemaker #2: The seachem Tidal was sucking in air similar to what @TeeJay had reported with his after mods.  I isolated this to the intake tube itself and will post those details in the experiments threads.  I did manage to duplicate the issue, which is the good thing.  I'll check the pump here shortly to see what is going on with the impeller.  It is definitely holding a massive air pocket somewhere and when the pump is powered off it chugs and gulps very loudly.  This is why I couldn't sleep, laying there worried it was an issue with fish, it wasn't....

Here are the close-ups of the algae.  If you stand back it looks great!  Up close, it's a nightmare and a half and hasn't changed much in a very long time.  I did lose about half my anubias this past month that was in this tank as well as the bacopa.  Currently I am about to lose the last stem of the hygrophilia pinnatifida.



This is the moss that is right under the light.  I am so tempted to chop this entire chunk of wood off.  It's a nightmare.  It also should be the easiest to treat directly with H202.  This is where the mass of the algae starts and the tidal pushes it all over the tank.  Also, you can see the red all over the tidal plastic.  That's the same stuff.  It's also very long, grown in, has taken hold, and is a nightmare on all of the equipment.  I'm very concerned about adding a heater and the same stuff happens.  I have heard you can boil the tank.  I'm considering it. Honestly.




As a result of all of this I am initiating the following changes:
1.  Lights are cut by half (55% down to 30%)


2. I will not be dosing 3x a week anymore and will strickly dose 1x a week for the time being.  I am absolutely feeding the algae by dosing so much per week.

3.  I am going to try to spot treat with H202 and then I will be dosing in liquid carbon once I can order some.  Phosphate pads did not fix anything.  I don't know if I can dose Excel because of the shrimp and reported issues killing shrimp.  I have dosed Easy Carbon, so hopefully that does something.  Barring that it would be a dose of H202 I believe that is possible as well.  I need to look into research for this, absolutely.

IN GOOD NEWS.

I received the new fish for the tank in order to help out trying to eat some of this algae.  I have seen them pecking at it.  Feeding a bit more has definitely contributed to the nitrates, but.... The fish are absolutely beautiful and I am loving having them in the tank.

Edit/Update: It looks like the pump was clogged beyond all heck. The mods to the tidal seem to have made it work "well" and the floating algae and stuff was all over the pump. It looked a bit like someone dipped it in potting soil. Kind of crazy. I trimmed plants for ~70+ minutes and tried to remove as much of it from the S. Repens as possible.  We will see how the plants respond.  It looks night and day better but I do know that it's not perfect. I know there is more there and it's just difficult to see and get to.

I found a giant patch of the algae on the backside of the soraybar going absolutely bananas. No idea how or why it got there. That was extremely surprising.

I did also see two of the corydoras doing the T pose, which is always a great sign and hopefully having a slightly cleaner tank helps then feel comfortable to breed. I'm extremely confident that fry have a ton of hiding spots and that they can absolutely thrive in the S. Repens bushes.

Time for some rest, hopefully.

Edited October 17, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Odd Duck]

Have you tried putting a small piece of either poly pad or filter floss in the opening of the water inlet of the Fluval breeder box?  Don’t stuff it tight, of course, you’re only aiming at reducing the bubbling sound.  I do a very loose pack with the twin layer poly pad (the blue and white stuff) but a bit of filter floss just barely snug enough to hold itself in place should also work.

For the algae issue, I’ll let others chime in that are better at helping with that.  I fight battles with algae in general, but I’ve got 3 tanks where I really fight BBA.  🤦🏻‍♀️ 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Odd Duck
Typo

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/18/2022 at 8:31 PM, Odd Duck said:

Have you tried putting a small piece of either poly pad or filter floss in the opening of the water inlet of the Fluval breeder box?  Don’t stuff it tight, of course, you’re only aiming at reducing the bubbling sound.  I do a very loose pack with the twin layer poly pad (the blue and white stuff) but a bit of filter floss just barely snug enough to hold itself in place should also work.

I just had to adjust it and was in the middle of doing too much. I turned it down this morning and it's flowing just fine and silent.  🙂
 

On 10/18/2022 at 8:31 PM, Odd Duck said:

For the algae issue, I’ll let others chime in that are better at helping with that.  I fight battles with algae in general, but I’ve got 3 tanks where I really fight BBA.  🤦🏻‍♀️ 

Yeah, I don't know who brought this stuff upon me, I'm pretty sure it was the water company, but it is just the absolutely most resilient thing.  I had a theory earlier today that I was feeding the algae so much it was literally killing my PH.  I need to research it, but it's likely to explain some weird test results I've had.  I am going to beat this stuff! I want my fancy tank back!!!

EDIT:  I also was looking into the peroxide treatment.  I guess the difference between pharmacy grade and food grade peroxide is they use silver (in some form) as a stabilizer.  So I will be trying to track that down.  Easy Carbon is on the way and literally should work, but we will see how well I can starve this algae.

Edited October 19, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Odd Duck]

Just be very careful not to overdose the tank.  I think that’s where most people run into problems.  I stop at 3 mls per gallon of the 3% over the counter stuff.  You can repeat it daily if need be, but don’t exceed the total per treatment.  I also don’t like the drain it down and spray method because it’s too easy to overdose.  I also think it concentrates in the remaining water and behaves like an overdose even though it wouldn’t be a total volume overdose if the tank was full of water.

Just treat a small area every 3-5 days repeatedly until that area dies and turns red.  On the other days, treat a different area until that dies.  You could easily rotate daily treatments between 3-5 areas until everything was treated.  Remember, even in a full tank, the peroxide will flow down through the water and treat what’s below any upper area you’re treating.  You can use that to your advantage by putting lower affected pieces directly under higher/taller pieces or moving tall hardscape so it’s directly over affected plants and essentially treating both areas at the same time with the same dose.  Slow trickle over the highest affected areas first.  After you’ve resolved all higher/taller areas and they are clean, then focus on any remaining lower areas.  Might take weeks before you’re done.

[nabokovfan87]

From directly under the light.... Have I mentioned how annoying this algae is?

Saw this today, right before feeding. Hello little duder.

[nabokovfan87]

Well..... I don't know what attempt this is, but I have a new bit of advice on how to try to push back this algae. I am going to give this a shot for this week and hope that all the trimming I did leads to success. I got this from Bentley, as mentioned the goal was to rid this tank of algae as a part of his "One Tank at a Time" series.  This is what was suggested for the current adjustments:

Quote

So, let's try this approach - no light for a week.  While we do that, keep up the spot dosing to help kill it off.  Once it's dead (reddish color usually) it will soften up and the amanos can start getting it eaten.  After our week, we'll bring the light back some and check how we're doing - if we see most of it dead, then we want to do a nice sized water change and begin bringing the light back.  We want to have a nice short photo period (4 hours at max, hour sunrise, hour sunset) to start and monitor.  From there if we're seeing steady success we can SLOWLY increase light intensity, but keep the duration the same.  This will be a long crawl where we might only be upping 5% per week.

I have gone ahead and set the lights and CO2 up for that 4 hour jolt and the tank is already wrapped in towels.  The room is dark already, but... I am really trying to do everything to just stop this stuff from growing any further.

I hope that once this stuff softens up and dies back from the blackout, that the amanos do go nuts on it.  I really hope so. I need that to happen!

Edited October 27, 2022 by nabokovfan87
typo

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/22/2022 at 3:52 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Well..... I don't know what attempt this is, but I have a new bit of advice on how to try to push back this algae. I am going to give this a shot for this week and hope that all the trimming I dead leads to success. I got this from Bentley, as mentioned the goal was to rid this tank of algae as a part of his "One Tank at a Time" series.  This is what was suggested for the current adjustments:

I have gone ahead and set the lights and CO2 up for that 4 hour jolt and the tank is already wrapped in towels.  The room is dark already, but... I am really trying to do everything to just stop this stuff from growing any further.

I hope that once this stuff softens up and dies back from the blackout, that the amanos do go nuts on it.  I really hope so. I need that to happen!

Is there an option to move your plants out of that tank and under a different light?

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/22/2022 at 7:32 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Is there an option to move your plants out of that tank and under a different light?

I can move them to a bucket, I have another fluval light too. What were you thinking?

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Look at these guys (vid should start at the right spot) - they have orange spots.

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/26/2022 at 11:34 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Look at these guys (vid should start at the right spot) - they have orange spots.

Yeah, those are cool.  I think that's the one that steenfott uses on his streams for a background sometimes. Really interesting and unique pattern!

What were you asking about earlier?  You had mentioned if I can move the plants to a different light?  I can change the light on the tank too back to the shorter one.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/26/2022 at 5:28 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Yeah, those are cool.  I think that's the one that steenfott uses on his streams for a background sometimes. Really interesting and unique pattern!

What were you asking about earlier?  You had mentioned if I can move the plants to a different light?  I can change the light on the tank too back to the shorter one.

Yes, moving your plants out of the tank (into bucket?) and putting a light over them. Then you can keep your main tank dark to kill the algae. And you can also quit giving nutes to the tank. Deplete the algae’s resources.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[TheSwissAquarist]

Superb journal @nabokovfan87! You've come a long way from the Amano Army!

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/27/2022 at 2:25 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Yes, moving your plants out of the tank (into bucket?) and putting a light over them. Then you can keep your main tank dark to kill the algae. And you can also quit giving nutes to the tank. Deplete the algae’s resources.

Ah I see. Definitely worth a shot. The worst part is that having the plants in a tub is what caused it because I couldn't do a WC.  Bucket only with plants is a lot easier. I can literally swap it to a different place.   

I had the hang-on breeder box I was trying to use..... a fish jumped.

I did the RR thing, killed some plants and it grew back.  I need to nuke the wood somehow.

I doused the wood in H2O2 and it didn't really work or do anything. Even when I get this stuff to turn red / white like it's dying it just comes back!

I have had "success" somewhat when the plants are low demand and I can just turn off the lights entirely (panda horde), but as nitrates spike the algae is starting to show up slightly.  Dosing easy green there.

I tried to "outcompete" it with more load, but that just lead to issues with conversion, equipment failures (plants in the pump).

I did add a dresser so I could setup a plants tank and do exactly what you are describing, but the bottom of it got rotted out when it was in storage and I don't trust it.

I have a small table I was going to use for a 5G tank, but I found out this week that the hardware holding it together on the bottom is just missing and I need to find out where I can get some of those cams or something to fix that.

The other issue is that I want to save the moss as the "fast growing plant", but it's glued to the wood.  I can remove it, make a big ball, and I'm absolutely fine with that if it comes to it.

I know... I know.... it sounds like a list of excuses.  I am totally frustrated.  We'll see how the blackout goes and then go from there.  The irony is I've tried high light, low nutrients..... I've tried low light, low nutrients...... I've tried "normal light" and dosing when the plants dictate it's needed and tried slightly higher / lower than that amount.....  I really, really, really wish I understood the mechanics of how algae works systemically.  Especially this red algae stuff, I just have some questions on how it functions on a micro level so I can optimize one method to stop it from thriving.  So far the biggest thing for me is the spores and trying to find some method to kill the spores and stop the spread.  From what Bentley said, that indicates to me that potentially the blackout would choke out the spores?  Maybe I just need to understand the timeline for that and then I can make sure I do so for long enough.

Time will tell!

On 10/27/2022 at 3:06 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

Superb journal @nabokovfan87! You've come a long way from the Amano Army!

I miss the army though!  Panda horde, amano horde.... I enjoy things en masse I guess. 😂

I really do want to get more, but have been trying to get that whole KH thing dialed in again.  I've totally have made progress on that front, but I am surprised that method didn't work!!!!

[nabokovfan87]

I removed the towels and such last night and today was the first "normal day" for the new schedule.  The fish were definitely in hibernation and very confused at what light was at first.  I had the blue LEDs on and I did see that one spot at the top of the wood, "the problem area" appear to be slightly dead. 

On the rock on the right side of the tank with the ball of moss everywhere it does look like the amanos spent some time there going to work while the lights were out.  I did see them today on the wood, but not the high flow parts.  I also think I lost yet another anubias nana petite, but unsure.  For now I pulled the infested roots and will re-glue it tomorrow with maintenance. 

I am going to do a pretty healthy WC tomorrow which isn't fun because it's buckets, but I really hope I can make some progress prior to needing a heater in these things.  I feel like that's about 2-3 weeks away.

I did find a very awesome video online that showed, in pretty good light (metaphorically, not literally) how to fight this stuff.  It's just going to be a pretty brutal battle.  I am very likely going to be pulling the wood, soak it in some peroxide every week on maintenance, and then in addition to that doing the spot treatments as need be.  I will very likely need to do this DAILY because of how annoying this stuff is.  I don't know what the "best practice" method is for spot dosing an entirely infested tank, maybe start with the silicone seams? 

We'll see. 

I will check parameters and phosphates tomorrow.  I do expect them to climb pretty high as a result of some dying organics. 

When I checked the tank this afternoon, I didn't see red / dead anything, but it looked normal and just a little thinned out if anything.  We'll see.  I name this algae "rocky algae" because it comes back for so many sequels.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

@nabokovfan87 you say you’ve been fighting this stuff for 2 years. Ever considered sanitizing the tank? Similar to how a quarantine tank is sanitized with 1/10 bleach solution after a fish is ill?

You’d need to move the fish and shrimp out to a tote though.  If this stuff has spores and that’s how it spreads, the situation may warrant scrapping the substrate and decor. 

Of course, it’s a big decision and I’m certain you’d like to exhaust all other options first.

Sounds like you made progress with the blackout, so that’s awesome.

If you go through the process you mentioned above, maybe print out a blank calendar and write on it what needs to be done on which day?

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/29/2022 at 6:58 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

You’d need to move the fish and shrimp out to a tote though.  If this stuff has spores and that’s how it spreads, the situation may warrant scrapping the substrate and decor. 

Of course, it’s a big decision and I’m certain you’d like to exhaust all other options first.

This is definitely a consideration and I would go ahead and swap substrate and wood.  I would likely get rid of the tank entirely and set up my 75G sitting in the hallway.  I got directions via DM a bit ago on how, exploring the method for this algae and literally every possible option to go through with it.  I am definitely at the point of "this is your last shot" to get rid of it and considering such drastic measures.  Getting the CO2 working and setup was a pretty critical step, but what kills me i losing the bacopa and the Hygro.  It's the two plants that should've done very well for me and bacopa has done very well for me in my water previously.   Call me dumbfounded, but I'm blown away that with all the efforts I haven't gotten one pot of hairgrass to grow in 20+ pots over months and months of efforts.  Grow, yeah, thrive or put out runners... never.

Some of the methods I'm in the middle of right now is the algae thread (experiments) and it's something where I definitely need to go ahead have a plan for how long I will "put up" with issues.

Barring removing the tank entirely, I will end up going the route of a tank without plants and changing everything, bleach, etc.  But I really have my issues with 29G tanks right now and I think I'm fine with the change to a different setup, bigger tank. 

The only thing preventing the move right now is space, not having the funds for a whole new 75G full of substrate, and replacing items.  But.... the biggest issue is trying to change out 25-35G of water with buckets.... every week.  I can probably get away with filling the tank off of a hose through the window, but it's not something I can do easily without help from the family and I can't really vac the tank with the stuff on hand currently.
 

On 10/29/2022 at 6:58 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

If you go through the process you mentioned above, maybe print out a blank calendar and write on it what needs to be done on which day?

Very good idea.  I do use my phone for reminders, but I think a chalk marker or wet erase will work as well as the calendar.  I love the idea.  I have a chalkboard I can hang up on the tanks, sounds perfect for what I need.  Looks like a trip to staples might have to happen tomorrow.

It's one of those things where I do wish I had a daily 5 minutes of help from someone who knows a lot more than I do.  Plants I can handle.... this algae just sucks.

This video is extremely well done.... Worth the watch for the camera work alone.  All I could think to myself was that by the time one section was "done" that I would move to the next one and then it just keeps growing and growing as I fight off little bits at a time.  It's a chicken and egg thing, so my real mental struggle right now is just needing anything in the tank to eat algae.  Both tanks have fish now at all levels, plecos, and shrimp in this one, so my hope is that with all this effort, direct treatment and pushing myself that I can have some success.
 

And I also went back and re-motivated myself again by watching this:

I am pretty sure the "summary" post of trial and error on this tank would be useful for someone... but one decision led to the next, to the next, and it's hard to offer anyone good advice at this point when I can't fix it myself despite having the information.  

[nabokovfan87]

For reference....

File says 5/16/2021,  the black discoloration has been there for "a bit" and was a result of the CO2 system crashing which let it start to develop.  All of this stuff went into bins and was fed nitrate and tons of light.


Note: This is wood that was not in the 75G tank, but was to the side of it with the black corydoras and is the 29G tank setup at the new house.  Same date as the photo above, but the same 29G tank the black corydoras were in.  Clearly the same stuff.


December 6, 2021:


March 2022:


July 2022: New plants added, most recent effort to out-compete but adding bioload.  Second batch of S. Repens as well as more hairgrass, added the moss, and the hygro / bacopa.


This is middle of September 2022:

Edited October 30, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/30/2022 at 12:57 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

But.... the biggest issue is trying to change out 25-35G of water with buckets.... every week.  I can probably get away with filling the tank off of a hose through the window, but it's not something I can do easily without help from the family and I can't really vac the tank with the stuff on hand currently.

I use a pond pump and a bucket and a 1/2” diameter hose. To remove water from tank, just drop the pond pump into the tank. The hose can either be run to a sink or outside.
 

To add water back, first and foremost, add dechlorinator to the tank before doing anything.  Then put a bucket (it would need to be a shorter bucket, a 5g bucket is too tall) into the kitchen sink or the tub and fill it. Leave water running, drop pond pump in, and run the hose into tank. You can place an intake tube onto the end of the hose to disperse the water. And turn pump on to let the tank fill. I use a digital meat thermometer in the bucket to ensure temp is close to tank temp. The benefits of using a bucket with the pond pump are 1) no dealing with faucet fittings, 2) no having to go outside, 3) ability to monitor temp, 4) no contaminants from say, if you filled the sink up and put the pump in the sink. Who knows what cleaners or food bacteria were in the sink? 5) no carrying buckets full of water. 
 

The con is you can’t vacuum the tank this way. If you need to vac the tank, you need to shell out the cash for the Python system. 
 

Some issues I had with the Python system are that I couldn’t get it to fit my kitchen faucet, so I had to go outside to use the hose hookup. Then I would track dirt in and out of the house at every water change. But ultimately, calcium buildup froze up my outdoor hose fixture completely. I literally can’t turn it anymore, so I needed another option. Also I couldn’t monitor temp going in like I could with the bucket. There is a fitting that you pull down on the Python while at the faucet that will cause the Python to begin to suck water from the tank. Pushing this fitting up will cause water to go the other direction: back into the tank.

I can help you with the pond pump system. It’s easy to set up but the trick is selecting the right pond pump. These are the measurement I’d need:

Distance from sink (or tub) to tank

Height of tank

Faucet flow rate*
 

*You’d need to look up the make/model of the faucet to find the specs.

On 10/30/2022 at 12:57 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Call me dumbfounded, but I'm blown away that with all the efforts I haven't gotten one pot of hairgrass to grow in 20+ pots over months and months of efforts.  Grow, yeah, thrive or put out runners... never.

Dwarf hair grass is a medium light plant. It also requires root tabs. In my experience, a 29g does best with low light plants due to the water depth.  Take a look at micro sword instead. And it doesn’t need root tabs. Only easy green. I’ve had great success with it. It’s very happy and has been sending out runners.

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Torrey]

On 10/27/2022 at 11:41 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I am totally frustrated.  We'll see how the blackout goes and then go from there.  The irony is I've tried high light, low nutrients..... I've tried low light, low nutrients...

I've been going down the autistic rabbit hole of research around how "bugs" (including algae) won't and *can't* attack healthy plants. (John Kempf, Dr Dykstra)

So, take the following with a grain of salt:

I've stopped with drastic measures.

Instead of trying to get rid of <insert "pest" in aquarium, including algae> I am spending more time researching how to get plants as healthy as possible. Most of the peer-reviewed research indicates *less changes*. Plants need temperature changes, water level changes, and nutrient fluctuations to trigger different strengths. They don't do well with drastic changes, though.

They need a balanced ecosystem in other words, that includes paramecium, snails, shrimp, amphipods, copepods, fish, light, CO2 diurnally and O2 nocturnally... and nutrients. My microfauna need the algae, and the algae stays in balance when the tank is in balance.

From my experience, 9/10 algae grows in response to a single nutrient being available in excess, and the most frequent nutrient they are getting in excess is light.

I suspect the 4 hour limit on photoperiods maximizes plant usage of the photoperiod (see Dr. Diana Walstead's research at NCSU) and turns the light off before algae can outcompete the plants.

Again, this has been my experience, and increasing feedings for microfauna initially increased algae growth, until I decreased back down to multiple 4 hour photoperiods broken up with 4 hours of lights out. I do encourage algae growth in specific areas, for microfauna to grow on....

Good luck!

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/30/2022 at 6:15 PM, Torrey said:

So, take the following with a grain of salt:

I've stopped with drastic measures.

Instead of trying to get rid of <insert "pest" in aquarium, including algae> I am spending more time researching how to get plants as healthy as possible. Most of the peer-reviewed research indicates *less changes*. Plants need temperature changes, water level changes, and nutrient fluctuations to trigger different strengths. They don't do well with drastic changes, though.

They need a balanced ecosystem in other words, that includes paramecium, snails, shrimp, amphipods, copepods, fish, light, CO2 diurnally and O2 nocturnally... and nutrients. My microfauna need the algae, and the algae stays in balance when the tank is in balance.

From my experience, 9/10 algae grows in response to a single nutrient being available in excess, and the most frequent nutrient they are getting in excess is light.

I suspect the 4 hour limit on photoperiods maximizes plant usage of the photoperiod (see Dr. Diana Walstead's research at NCSU) and turns the light off before algae can outcompete the plants.

Again, this has been my experience, and increasing feedings for microfauna initially increased algae growth, until I decreased back down to multiple 4 hour photoperiods broken up with 4 hours of lights out. I do encourage algae growth in specific areas, for microfauna to grow on....

Good luck!

I appreciate the info.  There was a video of his talk that you might really, really enjoy.  It's the guy over at BRS and he started up ~10 tanks using a variety of methods and tracked what algae, bacteria, microorganisms, pests, etc. all showed up in the tank.  What was most interesting was when certain things showed up and how some tanks did well to settle themselves while others had issues due to certain factors.  I think out of all of the tanks they had, only one was a "success" and I am pretty sure it wasn't the one that used actual live rock.  They brought about a technique that I would use if I ever had a saltwater setup and it essentially amounted to QT for the bacteria itself to remove things you don't want so they can't be introduced. 

I am heavily considering cutting the lights down / back further.  I pulled some photos today that I'll toss in the algae experiments thread.  Essentially, a week (8 days) of no light, didn't touch the stuff. the only spot on the tank that showed signs of "improvement" was where the algaecide was being poured into the tank and it's already recovered after one 4 hour lighting period.

It's not a "fun" experience and like you're saying light is very likely the cause here...... but. I have a tank that essentially has 0 light for the most part and it's still growing the algae, even with the low dose of the algaecide.

I don't think anything I've done is "drastic" to this point.  I'm trying easy green currently, but I am definitely at the point where I feel like this crap is in the pipe before the water gets to me and there's no stopping it.  You can see from the photos above it was very minimal, then maxed itself out, it's been cut back, and now it's back to cycling and trending in a bad way.

To give you an idea... this is new growth after the blackout I pulled off the S. Repens today.

Edited October 31, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/30/2022 at 4:00 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Dwarf hair grass is a medium light plant. It also requires root tabs. In my experience, a 29g does best with low light plants due to the water depth.

Yeah.... that's what caused me to end up swapping from the 24" to the 36" light to get that more powerful light at the substrate bed.  It totally worked and is doing that desired effect.  I had the 24" to just about max power and the plants still weren't getting enough light.  No need to worry about it now.....

I have had microsword before as well as DHG in the 75G.  I had the 4' light on that tank, but essentially the same method / lighting on both that tank and this one for that plant.  I did drown a few of the pots with tabs, but alas... the algae kept growing faster than the plant could.   I just gotta push this stuff back and fix whatever issues are going on and then I can pop some in.  At this point I'm down to literally growing only S. Repens and Moss and neither are doing "ok" but it's just the plant that actually is able to stick around right now.  Everything else is just gone.

We'll see.  Like I keep saying, I just feel pretty hopeless with the whole situation.  I want to see some progress and I just am not.  I have to track things this week and either cut the light back or change it out back to the 24" light and see if that does anything.  I'll keep the same settings, which is essentially cutting that same light I have now in half.

AND THEN..... we just go to town with the h2o2 and the easy carbon and CO2 dosing and hope that things improve.

I ended up taking the window apart and running the hose into the room.  Wasn't pretty, but it is what it is..... I'm in the same situation where the faucet doesn't work or isn't the right size to work with the python and I get to use the hose outside.  It's a small diameter hose and only works to fill.  The python is way too big to siphon the gravel but it would technically work if I felt the need.

I dig your setup and your skills putting all that together.  I definitely trust myself with a bucket.  If I had the room, I'd get a giant trashcan on wheels.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/30/2022 at 9:15 PM, Torrey said:

They need a balanced ecosystem in other words, that includes paramecium, snails, shrimp, amphipods, copepods, fish, light, CO2 diurnally and O2 nocturnally... and nutrients.

See @nabokovfan87? You don't have the snails your tank needs! 🐌🐌

[nabokovfan87]

Heaters added. Temps dropped into the 30's last night and expected to be as cold for the rest of the week if not colder.  Tonight is the same temp, then Tuesday night it is expected to drop another 5-10 and then it's officially "winter" for a few months.

I checked the temp on the tank and it was 68.5.  I set the heaters to 72 for today, I might set them at 71 for the foreseeable future.

CO2 system, regulator issue, is still purplexing me. I'll go into details in a future post. I had messaged Mmiller previously to go through the setup, but I do think the regulator itself needs to be replaced. Right now at the solenoid, the bubbles per second is extremely high, but at the actual diffuser it is very low. I don't know if the CO2 line itself could be causing the drop? Stuff to dig into. CO2 Art has great support and I very much enjoy their products. I wish they had an arrow on the dial for the working pressure adjustment, but their support did help me to get the tank back up and running.

I apologize for the multitude of posts the past few weeks. There's a lot going on with the tank and it is a busy time trying to figure things out.