Getting a pea puffer tomorrow

[Chad]

My daughter wanted a fish and she chose a pea puffer. Proud papa, cuz I really wanted to get one too. No one around us sells them so I'm buying one online (flip aquatics) and it'll be shipping today and here tomorrow. I'm curious if any puffer keepers have any thoughts on them? Specifically the tank I'm using and the food I'll be feeding them. I'm putting the little puffer into a fluval spec 3 tank. I've gutted it out and the water volume is 3.5 gallons. On the low side of pea puffer care, I know, but I'm putting a medium coop sponge filter in there that's been seeding in my community tank for 5 months. Any experience with puffers in a sub 5 gallon tank? Would lethargy be my main symptom that things aren't working out? I'll monitor it closely, and can rehome to a flex 9 (currently my quarantine tank) if I have to but would rather not if this size works out. 

As for feeding, I have frozen blood worms and brine shrimp. I also have vita-chem to enrich the food with. I'd use a pipette to carefully feed it without getting too messy. Concern: do I have to provide live foods? I can't get any around where I live that I'm aware of. Maybe I can hit up a lfs for bladder snails but that's a big reach. Is my feeding regime okay without any live foods? Any behavior or symptoms to look out for if things are going south? Appreciate any thoughts and tips, thanks in advance!

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

You’ll need to buy some bladder or ramshorn snails. Easy to put in your qt tank or even a tote and harvest baby snails. Put in scrap veg from your table that is blanched and watch your colony grow.  It’s more for enrichment purposes then anything else they love to hunt and you’ll love to watch him hunt. They’ll take frozen foods but they’ll need a more diverse diet then 2 food items. You may be able to slip some vibra bites soaked in blood worm juice I’ve seen others do that. 
 

They need a lot of decorations, plants and things to explore. They are water puppies so think about a puppy looking for things to chew, sniff and play with. 
 

Im excited for you and your daughter. So happy for those moments when I get to share my hobby with my kids! 

[Chad]

On 2/9/2022 at 10:51 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

You’ll need to buy some bladder or ramshorn snails. Easy to put in your qt tank or even a tote and harvest baby snails. Put in scrap veg from your table that is blanched and watch your colony grow.  

Okay! So you think I can grow snails pretty easily and get a colony going if I get some from a lfs and use a tote? Any more tips for setting something like that up? Thanks so much @Beardedbillygoat1975, that would be neat to do, but I'd have to hide it away in the basement. The wife won't like this plan 🙂 

[Ashlyn]

You can grow them so quickly! I started with a couple in my 10 gal tank that my fish left alone and I have so many now! Made the puffers very happy!

[Chad]

On 2/9/2022 at 11:13 AM, Ashlyn said:

You can grow them so quickly! I started with a couple in my 10 gal tank that my fish left alone and I have so many now! Made the puffers very happy!

That's what I was really curious about, thanks @Ashlyn! 

Just called a lfs, they didn't know what a bladder snail was. A pest snail? That they understood but said they didn't have any to sell. Onto lfs door number 2.

[Odd Duck]

Some will take frozen foods, some will not.  They almost never taken dried, freeze dried, flake or pellets.  Most will starve to death before taking anything dry.  Mine wouldn’t even take live fruit flies.  I personally don’t recommend getting a solo pea puffer.  They are a shoaling species and are better in a small group (6 or more) in at least 15-20 gallons.  They are definitely not an easy fish to keep but I am far more skilled at culturing live foods than I ever was before I got them.  You also need to be careful about your male to female ratio with 2-3 females per male.

I did have a solo pea puffer despite trying very hard to develop a shoal for him. (I made several attempts).  He was a jerk every time and caused the death of at least 4 other puffers.  He yeeted himself out of his tank during a cleaning a few weeks ago and I missed it.  My signature still has a link to the 6G Buce tank that tells his story except his death.  I just couldn’t bring myself to post it.  I also have a link for my 29 G pea puffer tank.  It’s planted and seeded so well with feeder colonies that I’m not sure how many puffers are still in there. 8 went in.  I still see at least 3-4 well-fed peas at every tank check but I’ve nearly stopped feeding them. I just check on them.  They don’t even bother coming out for live food most of the time since the tank is so well seeded.  I learned from the first shoal (my 20 long) that 8 peas needed more than 20 gallons, even though it was very heavily planted and pre-seeded with “pest” snail and scud cultures.  This 29 G is my only tank that also has MTS’s (along with bladder, ramshorn, and pond snails).  I rarely see the trumpets, but I need to check at night again.  I added enough I’m sure they’re in there, they just spend their time down in the sand.

I see posts more and more often about people keeping a shoal of peas in community tanks.  You must have a large enough tank for this to succeed.  At least 40 gallons is the smallest I’ve heard of truly succeeding.  My friend has a shoal of peas in a 55 community tank.  There needs to be at least 6 or more peas, and there need to be plenty of other fish that are fast moving, wary fish that the peas aren’t as likely to be able to fin nip (they still will if given the chance).  In a community setting, you would need to have a good bladder and/or ramshorn snail culture to feed (or established in the tank).  Feed regularly, feed often, and lots of variety.  Plenty of live foods for the peas to hunt.  If peas don’t have enough to do, they will find something to do.  And you may not like what they find to do.

Pea puffers are fascinating but diabolical creatures.  From most sources, they will need to be dewormed, particularly with levamisole, but they tend not to be as social with you if they are kept as solos.  They show the most interesting behavior as a small group with correct male to female ratios with plenty of tank room.  They are messy eaters so they need regular, frequent water changes - more than you would expect for their size.

[Chad]

Sorry @Odd Duck for your loss. But thank you for the info! I'm already committed to a solo pea puffer at this point but your experience and insight is really appreciated. I'll be watching closely. I did warn my daughter that we may need to add more. I have an empty 20 gallon long at the ready if what you're saying comes to pass. Unfortunately I can't commit to anything larger. I know what I'm trying here isn't ideal, but I've been enough of a pack rat with fish supplies and what-not that I think I'm at least ready to give it a try, eyes wide open though. Thanks again @Odd Duck for your insight and advice.

[eatyourpeas]

Mine are solo and do great. Like @Odd Duck suggested, I think the tank size recommendations tend to be too small for shoals. They are very curious and get bored easily. Mine are like little puppies, and come to say hello when I am nearby.

You can grow bladder snails in a jar with plants, unheated, and near a window. Feed a lot, and they will reproduce like crazy!

[Chad]

On 2/9/2022 at 11:46 AM, eatyourpeas said:

Mine are solo and do great. Like @Odd Duck suggested, I think the tank size recommendations tend to be too small for shoals. They are very curious and get bored easily. Mine are like little puppies, and come to say hello when I am nearby.

You can grow bladder snails in a jar with plants, unheated, and near a window. Feed a lot, and they will reproduce like crazy!

Fantastic to know, both about being solo and the tip about growing bladder snails. I have now called 3 LFS' and have been told that they do not have pest snails for sale. Would Petsmart have/sell them?

[Odd Duck]

On 2/9/2022 at 11:24 AM, Chad said:

Sorry @Odd Duck for your loss. But thank you for the info! I'm already committed to a solo pea puffer at this point but your experience and insight is really appreciated. I'll be watching closely. I did warn my daughter that we may need to add more. I have an empty 20 gallon long at the ready if what you're saying comes to pass. Unfortunately I can't commit to anything larger. I know what I'm trying here isn't ideal, but I've been enough of a pack rat with fish supplies and what-not that I think I'm at least ready to give it a try, eyes wide open though. Thanks again @Odd Duck for your insight and advice.

Do lots of plants and some hard scape, ideally wood that will grow better micro flora for your pea.  I would establish a feeding station for your pea (I wish I had done this for mine from the beginning).  You can get a tube that secures to the side of your tank that guides food down into a dish or you can use a tube that you hold in the tank only long enough for the food to go down into the dish.  It won’t solve the half eaten snail inside the shell issues (scuds are your friend for helping with this plus they serve as another food source for your pea), but it will help with a lot of cleanup and let you better assess your pea’s appetite.

You can use many different types of dishes but glass or ceramic is your best bet for being heavy enough to stay in place and easily cleanable.  You can buy glass petri dishes for minimal cost from the online giant.  Your lfs may even keep them in stock since you will only need one for your pea.  It doesn’t need to be large, only needs to be about 2.5-3” across.

[Chad]

Thanks again @Odd Duck. I do intend to heavily plant and decorate. I've got all those things at the ready and even have a small ceramic dish/coaster that could work for feeding like you mentioned. How much do you usually feed a single pea puffer? I was guessing maybe 1-3 bloodworms at the most per day?

[eatyourpeas]

On 2/9/2022 at 9:50 AM, Chad said:

Fantastic to know, both about being solo and the tip about growing bladder snails. I have now called 3 LFS' and have been told that they do not have pest snails for sale. Would Petsmart have/sell them?

They usually do not charge for pest snails. I have never been to a Petsmart, so I can't help with that one.

[Chad]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:04 PM, eatyourpeas said:

They usually do not charge for pest snails. I have never been to a Petsmart, so I can't help with that one.

I called them instead of walking in and was told by the likeliest lfs seller that their bladder snail tank is too low to sell them right now. To try in a couple weeks once stocks have rebounded. I always thought I lived in a sewer, seems that this pest snail loving town I live in is proving me right 😉 

[Odd Duck]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:01 PM, Chad said:

Thanks again @Odd Duck. I do intend to heavily plant and decorate. I've got all those things at the ready and even have a small ceramic dish/coaster that could work for feeding like you mentioned. How much do you usually feed a single pea puffer? I was guessing maybe 1-3 bloodworms at the most per day?

Depends on their size and what you have for live food in the tank.  I literally haven’t fed any worms to my 29 gallon for about a week, but I had bladder snails, ramshorn snails, MTS’s, scuds, blackworms, and Daphnia (for all the good that does) seeded in the tank for over a month before I added peas.  I still fed them daily for weeks because that was what they were used to getting.  But every time anybody bothered to show up for a snack of whiteworms (their favorite) or blackworms, they already had full tummies and would only eat one or two worms.  My solitary boy was a big brute (1.5”) so he typically got at least 4-6 worms daily (depending on worm size) with occasional fasting days, maybe once weekly.  He still had scuds and snails in the tank to munch if he wanted.  A fair sized juvenile (what you usually get from the store) will only need 1-3 worms, depending on size.  Try offering frozen Daphnia, frozen baby brine shrimp, frozen adult brine shrimp (unless s/he’s super tiny).

You can shave pieces off a frozen block of bloodworms if you don’t have anybody else to feed with them.  Otherwise you’ll be wasting most of the food.  Tiny juvies may not be able to take frozen blood worms right away.  You need to ask at your lfs what they are feeding and see if they will feed them while you’re there so you can see how well they are eating, make sure they can handle the size food.  Make sure they are eating at all.

Watch for the tummy to get rounded.  It shouldn’t be a big round blob, but should be a plump little tummy after feeding.

[Chad]

Okay, thanks @Odd Duck. I don't have a lfs around that sells puffers. At least they're not currently in stock when I asked and offered no idea when they might get them back. But, I could dice up the worms or brine shrimp a bit for the juvenile puffer at first. At least try it anyway. Appreciate knowing what to look for in a well fed puffer vs an over fed one.

I'm going to stop by one the lfs' this afternoon and see if they have any snails in their tanks and ask if I can walk off with them. Fingers crossed. 

[Odd Duck]

I hope you have your plants in place already?  I planted my 29 and seeded it with snails on August 29th, transferred pea puffers into it on November 9th.  That’s how long it took before I was comfortable adding them.  Of course, they were already in an established tank so I wasn’t in a hurry.  Peas are not known for disrupting plants much, but they will sometimes when hunting if the plants aren’t rooted well.  But it takes a good month or more for most plants to get rooted and established enough to help with the ammonia produced from leftover food bits.  Even with a single pea puffer, it’s surprising how nasty their tank can get from half a dead snail rotting in there.  They are truly gifted at hiding a half eaten snail in a back corner.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Odd Duck
Typo

[Chad]

I don't have anything rooted. Just Anubius, java fern and moss, with some frog bit to float. I'll be sure to tie or glue everything down though 🙂 

[Odd Duck]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:38 PM, Chad said:

I don't have anything rooted. Just Anubius, java fern and moss, with some frog bit to float. I'll be sure to tie or glue everything down though 🙂 

That can actually be better.  It lets you move things around for the little guy/gal to keep things interesting.  I was going to suggest epiphytes somewhere along the way and got distracted and forgot!  😆 

[Chad]

I say that, but here's the thing: this will be my kids tank. It's hers to decorate. I have veto power only on things I think will harm the fish. In this case a cute floating castle attached to a base with monofilament line. Yeah, that worried me with those googley puffer eyes.

[Odd Duck]

Where are you located?  There might be somebody on here that’s from your area that can share some “pest” snails.

[Chad]

I'm in Des Moines, Iowa. And I was only kidding about the "sewer" part of living here. It's really more pig trough than anything 😉 

Still kidding!

[Fish Folk]

We enjoyed them several years ago. Had a pair in a 10 gal. Here’s a video my son made about them. Live snails, mosquito larvae, etc are key for diet.

 

[Odd Duck]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:40 PM, Chad said:

I say that, but here's the thing: this will be my kids tank. It's hers to decorate. I have veto power only on things I think will harm the fish. In this case a cute floating castle attached to a base with monofilament line. Yeah, that worried me with those googley puffer eyes.

I’ve never actually seen a pea puffer injure their eyes that I can recall.  Cute floating castle, hmmm, maybe it would be fine?  They can definitely dash away at lightening speed when they bring that tail into play, but mostly they helicopter around with their pectorals.  I do recommend a snug top and sand bottom because they are notorious for yeeting themselves out but will also try to bury into substrate when startled which doesn’t turn out well if it’s gravel.  I have read about a couple different peas that concussed themselves trying to bury in gravel.  Shook it off and went back to their normal lives after just a few moments for each one.

[Jennifer V]

@Odd Duck has incredible insight! If you could, I would start yours in the flex 9 and use the 3 as an eventual snail tank. He'd be much better off there. As far as sourcing snails, you can find local clubs or Facebook groups and post that you're in need of snails. There are usually quite a few people who need to get rid of bladder and ramshorn snails. 

I have four peas in a 10g (also not ideal but they seem happy) so their behavior is different but in my experience happy peas are active. If you see him hiding a lot or resting on that bottom, that's something to monitor closely. 

For plants, they love moss, susswassertang and floating plants. Floating plants help make them feel safe. My shyest guy really changed for the better when I added some floating anacharis.

What's your substrate? Peas prefer sand because they are said to burrow when they get spooked. 

They are very complicated fish, so approach the adventure with a lot of patience. Test the water very often because peas are really messy and in a tank that size, parameters can go south really quickly. 

Excited to see how you do! 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Jennifer V

[Odd Duck]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:42 PM, Chad said:

I'm in Des Moines, Iowa. And I was only kidding about the "sewer" part of living here. It's really more pig trough than anything 😉 

Still kidding!

I get it, I’ve been through Des Moine.  I grew up in the armpit of Nebraska, no like literally 13 miles from the Kansas border and 65 from the Colorado border - in the armpit.  It nearly always smelled of hog confinements, feed lots, or the rendering plant in town, depending on which way the wind was blowing.  But in the summer and on weekends we didn’t have to be home until the street lights came on and my mom used to ring an old school bell out the front door to “call in the kids”.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Odd Duck