Need help with how to anchor wood to side

[dasaltemelosguy]

That's a good point. I didn't think of that as I was just considering mounting rocks but you raise a very valid concern. Mine have only been mounted this way for a few months so it's not a good test of if the wood will hold the glued magnets indefinitely in wood. In the rocks, it becomes inseparably 'fused' to the rock but you're right, the wood is a long-term concern.

Maybe since driftwood is easily drilled and these magnets usually have a center hole, using small Nylon hardware to attach the magnets would circumvent the need for any gluing. If my driftwood magnets ever start loosening, maybe I'll replace them with Nylon screws. 

I made a mistake in only showing the high-power magnets which cost considerably more than the generic neodymium's available at office stores and hardware stores. The little ones usually have more than enough strength for hanging plants and such. The ones in the link range from 'refrigerator magnets' to industrial lifts so there's really no need to buy the expensive ones unless you need to hold heavy rocks in locked positions. 

 

[Odd Duck]

On 11/24/2021 at 10:32 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

Not sure how useful this is but I thought I'd mention it just in case it would work for your situation!

I think this may be tremendously useful!  I can screw the wood to the slate, epoxy the magnet to the other side of the slate, then magnet on the outside to hold the slate/structure into place.  Remove by moving the outside magnet so I wouldn’t put pressure on the wood.

On 11/25/2021 at 5:21 AM, Atitagain said:

@dasaltemelosguy I’m loving the magnet idea. I will research a lil but I think they could definitely solve my problems with hanging roots and @Odd Duckmaybe as well. I think only problem would be long term deterioration of the driftwood the magnet glued to it may become a weak bond?

thank you 

If I’m attaching the wood to the slate with screws it should be a minimal issue for many years.  I’m really liking the magnet idea the more I think about it!

[Atitagain]

On 11/25/2021 at 10:08 AM, Odd Duck said:

I’m attaching the wood to the slate with screws it should be a minimal issue for many years.  I’m really liking the magnet idea the more I think about it!

Yes I forgot you was using slate, in my plan for my tank I wasn’t gonna use slate, I’m gonna test whenever I get the magnets but will probably use slate as well. That will be a huge factor to keep the connection solid for a very long time. 😁

O @dasaltemelosguyjumped in here and saved the day! For us both I think?

[Odd Duck]

I think I might need a trio of moderately sized pairs of magnets, two at the top where the most force will be as the (relatively negligible) weight of the wood will want to “peel” the base downward, and a single pair at the bottom where it will be partially a spacer but also support/holding.

I might add some epoxy to the wood bases to reinforce the screwed together joint.  I will be trimming each piece back at least a bit to get just the right angles of the branches and the screws would be going into more solid wood.

@dasaltemelosguy I think this might be exactly the key I was looking for!  Solid, secure mounting, but still fairly easily removable as a unit.  I did not realize you could get the magnets already coated with waterproof plastic or that they were that readily available.

[Odd Duck]

On 11/25/2021 at 9:23 AM, Atitagain said:

Yes I forgot you was using slate, in my plan for my tank I wasn’t gonna use slate, I’m gonna test whenever I get the magnets but will probably use slate as well. That will be a huge factor to keep the connection solid for a very long time. 😁

O @dasaltemelosguyjumped in here and saved the day! For us both I think?

Yes, I think so!  I love it when a plan comes together!  ❤️ 💕 💗 

I need to get to sleep after my overnight shift because I have another overnight tonight.  But I may just have to start this in motion this weekend!  I need to shift plants and a couple old, non-ACO sponge filters out, and remove substrate.  If I use the underwater, 2 part epoxy paste to reinforce my screw attachment, the wood doesn’t even have to be dry.

If I can just convince myself to go ahead and use the Christmas moss I already have (stop being so picky for crying out loud! 🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️), I could be in “dry start” as soon as next weekend depending on the magnet shipping timing.

@dasaltemelosguyAny suggestions or links on where to obtain said magnets?

[Atitagain]

@Odd Duck I think these are the ones I’m gonna order.

LOVIMAG 1.26”D x 0.2”H Black Epoxy Coated Neodymium Disc Countersunk Hole Magnets. Strong Permanent Rare Earth Magnets with Screws for Tool Room, Science, Craft, Office, etc - Pack of 10 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K6ML8HQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_8ASRARR6FFWSG69ZZM97?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

[dasaltemelosguy]

I'm so glad this may prove helpful.

I like to get them here because I can use the chart or their calculator to choose the size and strength needed for heavier rocks and such: kjmagnetics.

They are on Amazon and in office supply stores and hardware stores but with those sources, you'll have to do some guesswork as to how strong they are but if it's to hang lighter objects, that strength is usually plenty. If you find any slippage, you can add another or change to a stronger one. Perhaps bring a 1/2" thick piece of wood or glass to feel how strong the pull is through that distance. 

The coated ones will never break down unless you physically crack the coating. They are rated for salinity, caustic chemicals and high temperatures so fish tanks are not nearly caustic enough to be a concern. They also make them in a form of stainless steel that is magnetic without a coating which is also safe (I like the rings because they give me a mounting hole). 

To give you an idea of the strength vs the glass thickness, this is a 1" N52 magnet (small but very strong) and how much weight it will securely hold when snapped together, through 0.25" glass and through 0.5" glass:

Magnet Grade = N52
Magnet Diameter = 1"
Magnet Thickness = 1"
Glass Thickness = 0"
75.52 lbs.
----------------------
Magnet Grade = N52
Magnet Diameter = 1"
Magnet Thickness = 1"
Glass Thickness = 0.25"
27.06 lbs.
----------------------
Magnet Grade = N52
Magnet Diameter = 1"
Magnet Thickness = 1"
Glass Thickness = 0.5"
14.26 lbs.

It's fairly linear. That is, it more or less loses half its lift power as the glass thickness doubles. So, 1" glass thickness would have only about 7lbs. of holding power whereas 1/2" has 14lbs. For most things, the N52 is overkill but there's so many smaller ones to choose from.

I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that slate loses about 33% of its weight when submerged. This is obviously dependent upon the rock type so it's just a very generic guideline to how much effective weight for a submerged rock. 

[Odd Duck]

On 11/25/2021 at 10:26 AM, dasaltemelosguy said:

I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that slate loses about 33% of its weight when submerged.

I don’t know the numbers, but I have thin slate designed for a charcuterie board since it was the cheapest I could get.  It’s also plenty strong enough to hold pretty light weight wood pieces supported by water.  I don’t think strength to weight will be an issues at all.  It drilled easily enough and I was able to cut a couple to size and shape as needed with a cold chisel, hammer, and a bit of patience.

I’m ordering the same ones as @Atitagain They seem like a pretty good compromise between strength and cost with black epoxy tossed into the mix.

[Patrick_G]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:47 AM, lefty o said:

instead of epoxy, use aquarium safe silicone. put a blob or three on the wood, press and hold it to where you want it. may have to hold it for a while or use some object to hold it.

Yep, this is what I’d do. It’ll hold long enough for the wood to lose its buoyancy. 

[Brandon p]

There are a lot of fish safe Epoxy I don’t tho the silicone will hold. Is this what you are looking to do with smaller pieces 

[dasaltemelosguy]

On 11/25/2021 at 10:16 AM, Odd Duck said:

I don’t know the numbers, but I have thin slate designed for a charcuterie board since it was the cheapest I could get.  It’s also plenty strong enough to hold pretty light weight wood pieces supported by water.  I don’t think strength to weight will be an issues at all.  It drilled easily enough and I was able to cut a couple to size and shape as needed with a cold chisel, hammer, and a bit of patience.

I’m ordering the same ones as @Atitagain They seem like a pretty good compromise between strength and cost with black epoxy tossed into the mix.

That's a really good idea. I used large, heavy pieces of slate but your idea would be far more manageable. I'm not sure they are neodymium which are very strong but ceramics can be just as strong too so it should be fine. If for any reason those magnets are not strong enough, you can stack them for more grabbing power or at that price, use as many as you need!

In truth, using more than 1 magnet keeps them in position better. A quick story (I promise) and I swear, this is too dumb to not be true.

We had the desire to have rocks and wood entering from the top into the water with the rocks and wood held magnetically under the glass lid. Sounded like it would look cool and easy to break down and re-set up. 

I could not replicate what happened for a million $.  I must have drilled directly in the center of the mass of the slate, unknowingly...definitely unknowingly, as I could not do it again if I wanted to!

With a single magnet holding an 8" piece of slate, that magnet was so perfectly and accidentally centered, I turned the filters back on and the slate just spun along the top like a ceiling fan! You could barely pull it off but it spun with almost any current of water! I guess 2 magnets would have been a good idea here!

Ultimately, we couldn't get a look we liked and we moved them and I took down "the fan"! 😖

[Gator]

@Brandon p; That is a very interesting use of a Cypress knee, I've never thought of anything like that, looks cool though.

[Brandon p]

I did it just to see if that was kind of what he wanted. i took a tank divider and used 2 screws and 4 washers. if it was going to be more permanent i would put a thin piece  of plexi over to stop evaporation. It could be done with magnets but most of the rare earth magnets that where discussed will rust at some point. I would not use glass if the magnets or of a certain size because they can slam together and break glass. i get nervous because cleaning glass out of an aquarium can be a pain. when my son was younger 5 or 6 he like the algae he had floated one near the top and the the other side on the top. Bang the came together and hit just broke the top and it was not fun

 

[Torrey]

On 11/24/2021 at 1:27 PM, Odd Duck said:

do need to be able to lift out the entire wood structure, even if I attach it in a couple pieces, because it never fails, at some point, I will need to catch fish out of the tank.  These branches are going to be dense enough to prevent catching anything.

Do you want the "roots" touching the substrate?

 

If you do, I have a fairly decent method that works reliably and allows the whole thing to be removed.

[Brandon p]

On 11/25/2021 at 4:45 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

That's a really good idea. I used large, heavy pieces of slate but your idea would be far more manageable. I'm not sure they are neodymium which are very strong but ceramics can be just as strong too so it should be fine. If for any reason those magnets are not strong enough, you can stack them for more grabbing power or at that price, use as many as you need!

In truth, using more than 1 magnet keeps them in position better. A quick story (I promise) and I swear, this is too dumb to not be true.

We had the desire to have rocks and wood entering from the top into the water with the rocks and wood held magnetically under the glass lid. Sounded like it would look cool and easy to break down and re-set up. 

I could not replicate what happened for a million $.  I must have drilled directly in the center of the mass of the slate, unknowingly...definitely unknowingly, as I could not do it again if I wanted to!

With a single magnet holding an 8" piece of slate, that magnet was so perfectly and accidentally centered, I turned the filters back on and the slate just spun along the top like a ceiling fan! You could barely pull it off but it spun with almost any current of water! I guess 2 magnets would have been a good idea here!

Ultimately, we couldn't get a look we liked and we moved them and I took down "the fan"! 😖

I totally believe that.  I can just see a rock spin like that. The magnets will work. We used to use them to attach all kinds of thing tractors from gluing magnet on the tractor or or mowers on the golf course an one to there coffee cups so they had a place put the giant coffee cups. To more important things

[dasaltemelosguy]

I love the cypress root. Gorgeous!

 

 

[Brandon p]

On 11/26/2021 at 11:16 AM, dasaltemelosguy said:

I love the cypress root. Gorgeous!

 

 

I want to make a cave tank with stalagmites stalactites 

[dasaltemelosguy]

That would be seriously cool! That's a really haunting idea...I may steal!

[Torrey]

On 11/25/2021 at 2:45 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

That's a really good idea. I used large, heavy pieces of slate but your idea would be far more manageable. I'm not sure they are neodymium which are very strong but ceramics can be just as strong too so it should be fine. If for any reason those magnets are not strong enough, you can stack them for more grabbing power or at that price, use as many as you need!

In truth, using more than 1 magnet keeps them in position better. A quick story (I promise) and I swear, this is too dumb to not be true.

We had the desire to have rocks and wood entering from the top into the water with the rocks and wood held magnetically under the glass lid. Sounded like it would look cool and easy to break down and re-set up. 

I could not replicate what happened for a million $.  I must have drilled directly in the center of the mass of the slate, unknowingly...definitely unknowingly, as I could not do it again if I wanted to!

With a single magnet holding an 8" piece of slate, that magnet was so perfectly and accidentally centered, I turned the filters back on and the slate just spun along the top like a ceiling fan! You could barely pull it off but it spun with almost any current of water! I guess 2 magnets would have been a good idea here!

Ultimately, we couldn't get a look we liked and we moved them and I took down "the fan"! 😖

That's too hysterical to not be true

Ord🤣🤣🤣

[Brandon p]

 Bet that he couldn’t do it again 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Brandon p

[Odd Duck]

On 11/25/2021 at 3:45 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

With a single magnet holding an 8" piece of slate, that magnet was so perfectly and accidentally centered, I turned the filters back on and the slate just spun along the top like a ceiling fan! You could barely pull it off but it spun with almost any current of water! I guess 2 magnets would have been a good idea here!

😂 🤣 

What a great story!  I can totally picture the “fan” slowly spinning in the current!  If you were trying for that effect it would be ridiculously challenging, but accidentally getting it perfectly centered and balanced to spin in the slightest current?  One in a million!  I love it and wish you had video to share!

I do plan to use multiple magnets so my structure will be stable.  I will see how strong they feel and use “enough” to do the trick (or at least I hope).

I will be keeping this story in mind for future plans, though!  You never know when you might want a spinning feature in your tank!  😆

@Atitagain Seems like this might be something helpful for your “industrial” look for your Hulk tank.  Maybe a couple very tiny magnets for a miniature ceiling fan in the “reactor”.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Odd Duck

[Atitagain]

On 11/26/2021 at 10:10 PM, Odd Duck said:

Atitagain Seems like this might be something helpful for your “industrial” look for your Hulk tank.  Maybe a couple very tiny magnets for an miniature ceiling fan in the “reactor”.

I like it a lot! Will have to definitely try and add something in like that! 🤔

[Odd Duck]

On 11/25/2021 at 1:11 PM, Patrick_G said:

Yep, this is what I’d do. It’ll hold long enough for the wood to lose its buoyancy. 

The wood is well soaked and sinks.  I don’t want to fasten it permanently to the tank.  It must be removable so I can catch fish out if ever needed.

On 11/25/2021 at 1:27 PM, Brandon p said:

There are a lot of fish safe Epoxy I don’t tho the silicone will hold. Is this what you are looking to do with smaller pieces 

Not quite.  I will be angling them so they form a rough arch from top left toward the right side of the tank somewhat like how they are positioned now but secured by their bases to the top left.

On 11/26/2021 at 1:05 AM, Torrey said:

Do you want the "roots" touching the substrate?

 

If you do, I have a fairly decent method that works reliably and allows the whole thing to be removed.

I will have some of the “root” tips touching the substrate but I don’t want much pressure on those tips since I know putting too much weight on the tips will lead to early failure of the structure.  Some of the branch tips are rather delicate which is why I want to fasten the branches by their bases.

 

Since I’ve had a chance to let this magnet idea percolate through my brain for a bit, I’m pretty sure I can pull it off.  Thanks again to @dasaltemelosguyfor the idea!

Now it’s just a matter of physically arranging the branches to fit and work together to get just the look I want.  I’ll be cutting the bases to just the right angle so they will sit nice and flat against the slate to get good adherence to the slate piece.  This will also expose good, solid wood (hopefully) for the screws to go into the wood through the slate piece.

I’m planning to use a combination of epoxy and screws to fasten the wood to the slate once I have it positioned the way I want.  It’s going to take a hot minute to get things positioned and bases cut just right for it all to fit together.

Once the wood is secured to the slate, then I’ll epoxy magnets to the slate.  Then just gently place (meaning wrestle and cuss) the whole piece back into position and secure it with the magnets outside the tank.

Then the simple matter of running some moss through the blender, painting it onto the wood, spraying it all down with water, and wrapping the tank top in plastic. Spray regularly and rewrap for 3-4 weeks for my “dry” start on the moss and away we go on my angelfish tank!

Hmmm, just thinking about how I’m going to paint moss on and suddenly I’m thinking I may use those magnets to secure the structure to my refrigerator with some plastic on the floor underneath it to do the whole moss painting bit.  Then do the wrestle and cuss part (this whole structure is going to be pretty big to fit into this tank) to get the now moss coated wood back into the tank.  Sounds like a fun day!  😉 😆 😝 

Everyone had some great ideas and I thank you all for chiming in to help!  @dasaltemelosguywins the day for the magnet idea and the “fan” story!

[Odd Duck]

On 11/26/2021 at 10:00 PM, Atitagain said:

I like it a lot! Will have to definitely try and add something in like that! 🤔

Can’t wait to see what you do!

[Torrey]

On 11/26/2021 at 9:16 PM, Odd Duck said:

The wood is well soaked and sinks.  I don’t want to fasten it permanently to the tank.  It must be removable so I can catch fish out if ever needed.

Not quite.  I will be angling them so they form a rough arch from top left toward the right side of the tank somewhat like how they are positioned now but secured by their bases to the top left.

I will have some of the “root” tips touching the substrate but I don’t want much pressure on those tips since I know putting too much weight on the tips will lead to early failure of the structure.  Some of the branch tips are rather delicate which is why I want to fasten the branches by their bases.

 

Since I’ve had a chance to let this magnet idea percolate through my brain for a bit, I’m pretty sure I can pull it off.  Thanks again to @dasaltemelosguyfor the idea!

Now it’s just a matter of physically arranging the branches to fit and work together to get just the look I want.  I’ll be cutting the bases to just the right angle so they will sit nice and flat against the slate to get good adherence to the slate piece.  This will also expose good, solid wood (hopefully) for the screws to go into the wood through the slate piece.

I’m planning to use a combination of epoxy and screws to fasten the wood to the slate once I have it positioned the way I want.  It’s going to take a hot minute to get things positioned and bases cut just right for it all to fit together.

Once the wood is secured to the slate, then I’ll epoxy magnets to the slate.  Then just gently place (meaning wrestle and cuss) the whole piece back into position and secure it with the magnets outside the tank.

Then the simple matter of running some moss through the blender, painting it onto the wood, spraying it all down with water, and wrapping the tank top in plastic. Spray regularly and rewrap for 3-4 weeks for my “dry” start on the moss and away we go on my angelfish tank!

Hmmm, just thinking about how I’m going to paint moss on and suddenly I’m thinking I may use those magnets to secure the structure to my refrigerator with some plastic on the floor underneath it to do the whole moss painting bit.  Then do the wrestle and cuss part (this whole structure is going to be pretty big to fit into this tank) to get the now moss coated wood back into the tank.  Sounds like a fun day!  😉 😆 😝 

Everyone had some great ideas and I thank you all for chiming in to help!  @dasaltemelosguywins the day for the magnet idea and the “fan” story!

Will the slate blend in with your rocks for the tank?