Using Oak Leaves Instead of Indian Almond

[tolstoy21]

Anyone have experience with this?

I have a bazillion oak trees around me and wanted to make the switch so I can stop spending on IA leaves.

For anyone who has used both, are the comparable? Pros? Cons? (Aside from making sure they are clean and pesticide free and all that).

Any observations would be greatly appreciated.

[Barnacle_Gil]

I'm no expert but I boiled an Oak leaf and dropped it in my Amano shrimp tank over 2 wks. ago and they are ignoring it.  I guess the point of it is to wait for a Biofilm to develop but I got nothing so far.  Maybe an expert could chime in and suggest something?

[tolstoy21]

I've noticed the same with IA leaves (unless you've used those and noticed different). They don't start attacking them until they are soft and breaking down. I actually use IA leaves in my breeding tanks, and when they get real mushy, I'll net them out and drop them in the shrimp tanks.

I guess as much as for food for shrimp, I'm also wondering about their tannic properties. Are they equivalent? Does one use more oak leaves, less? Will they attract squirrels? (Ok the last one was a joke, until that actually happens and then its not!)

I could certainly experiment with this, but if someone has experience they can share, that would give me a direction. 

I guess I could also spend some more time on the googles, and see what the WWW has to say.

Edited November 5, 2021 by tolstoy21

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I've been using oak leaves in my amphipod colony tank with no adverse impacts.  They need to age to perfection before anything wants to eat them, but then they get broken down and consumed.  I've never used IA leaves though, so I can't help with a direct comparison. 

[Atitagain]

I’ll be trying this soon as well, from what I understand IAL are better for using as a form of (I wanna call it but not sure if it’s right) biotanical application? Like healing and soothing affects. As a source of food for shrimp, snails, and fry I understand both equals. Equal on tannins as well. Also the oak leaves are known to break down faster.

make sure to not collect from areas the spay pesticides, fertilizer, or anything that could harm your tanks. Deep woods is the best option unless you are positive about where your collecting from.

disclaimer: this is just my opinion, I am not any kind of expert on this.

good luck mate 

[tolstoy21]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:15 AM, Atitagain said:

make sure to not collect from areas the spay pesticides, fertilizer, or anything that could harm your tanks. Deep woods is the best option unless you are positive about where your collecting from.

I'm in the northeast, so as far as I know, there isn't large-scale use of pesticides or fertilizers like you might find in more agricultural areas. Lots of forest.

I've been experimenting with deeper leaf litter in some breeding projects to keep Ph low and tannins higher to help control fungus, as well as provide shelter, shade and infusoria for teeny-tiny fry.

I've used peat, which is either messy or you have to purchase in a cleaner pellet form. And I'm burning through IA leaves. I know people use oak and there is so much free oak leaf litter in my area I'd be silly to not try it.

Anyway, thanks for feedback/advice thus far!

Edited November 5, 2021 by tolstoy21

[Phantom240]

My outdoor tub full of plant cuttings, plants for resale, etc is full of oak leaves because I'm surrounded by huge oaks. No adverse effects, the snails and shrimp seem to enjoy them, and they provide a place for fry to hide. 

[Craig Halstead]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:28 AM, tolstoy21 said:

I'm in the northeast, so as far as I know, there isn't large-scale use of pesticides or fertilizers like you might find in more agricultural areas. Lots of forest.

I've been experimenting with deeper leaf litter in some breeding projects to keep Ph low and tannins higher to help control fungus, as well as provide shelter, shade and infusoria for teeny-tiny fry.

I've used peat, which is either messy or you have to purchase in a cleaner pellet form. And I'm burning through IA leaves. I know people use oak and there is so much free oak leaf litter in my area I'd be silly to not try it.

Anyway, thanks for feedback/advice thus far!

I'm thinking about trying to start breeding rummy nose and panda Cory's.  I have been trying to research using oak leaves to lower kH and pH.  Were you able to further experiment with oak leaves? Any recommendations on process of using them?  Should they be boiled to get rid of any pest?  Do they release alot of tannins?

[JettsPapa]

On 10/31/2022 at 1:05 PM, Craig Halstead said:

I'm thinking about trying to start breeding rummy nose and panda Cory's.  I have been trying to research using oak leaves to lower kH and pH.  Were you able to further experiment with oak leaves? Any recommendations on process of using them?  Should they be boiled to get rid of any pest?  Do they release alot of tannins?

• I've used post oak and red oak leaves in my tanks for several years.  I used live oak leaves a time or two, but saw a report on another forum that they aren't good to use.  I don't know why, and I'm skeptical about it, but I have plenty of post oak and red oak leaves so I just use them instead.  I also frequently use magnolia leaves, and have used sycamore leaves a few times.
• I just rinse mine under the faucet and drop them in the tank.  They'll float for a day or two, and then slowly sink.
• I'm not a chemist, but it's my understanding that whether or not they (or other leaves) will lower pH depends on your kH.  If it's high then they won't do much.
• I've never added more than a few at any one time.  They don't darken the water much, and probably not enough to notice at all unless I put some water in a white container.  If you plan to cover the bottom of a tank I suspect they might release enough to be noticeable.

[Craig Halstead]

On 10/31/2022 at 2:14 PM, JettsPapa said:

• I've used post oak and red oak leaves in my tanks for several years.  I used live oak leaves a time or two, but saw a report on another forum that they aren't good to use.  I don't know why, and I'm skeptical about it, but I have plenty of post oak and red oak leaves so I just use them instead.  I also frequently use magnolia leaves, and have used sycamore leaves a few times.
• I just rinse mine under the faucet and drop them in the tank.  They'll float for a day or two, and then slowly sink.
• I'm not a chemist, but it's my understanding that whether or not they (or other leaves) will lower pH depends on your kH.  If it's high then they won't do much.
• I've never added more than a few at any one time.  They don't darken the water much, and probably not enough to notice at all unless I put some water in a white container.  If you plan to cover the bottom of a tank I suspect they might release enough to be noticeable.

So far from my understanding/research the tannis (which is tannic acid)  break down KH into CO2 in turn lowering the total degrees of KH slightly.  I'm more so trying to lower my KH to try to breed the rummy nose that I have as I can't seem to find a good supplier for them/have been only having like 2 of 6 live the past 3 different times I have gotten them.  So out of the 24 that I have ordered I only have 6 that have survived.   

[tolstoy21]

@Craig Halstead

Ok, so I have no definitive, scientific answers to this question other than to say, in my experience, oak leaves will lower the Ph. By how much, hmmmmm . . . . didn't take notes.

I would say I was around a Ph in the low 5's and then added oak leaves and brought my Ph down into the low 4's.  The environment is 100% RO water with a large box filter filled with Fluval peat pellets.  I added the oak leaves after running with peat and RO for a few weeks. So altogether, I think I lowered it by 1Ph. I'm guessing how much impact the leaves will have depends on how much buffer is present in the water. In my case there was zero Kh/Gh to start with.

How many leaves did I put in? Um . . . . I just threw a couple handfuls in, didn't count or measure. I'd say more than a dozen, but less than two dozen?

How did I prepare them?  What's 'prepare'?  I literally went out in my yard, grabbed a bunch of clean looking, dry oak leaves, took them inside and then dropped them into the tanks.

They definitely stained the water with that tea-colored blackwater after a week or so of steeping. But, this was what I was after, in addition to tanking my Ph. After all that was done, one of my pairs of Apistogramma Abacaxis spawned so I guess it did the trick.

So I would say, based on my very empirical and non-scientific observations, oak leaves work, but won't work alone depending on your existing water source and how far you wish to drop the Ph.

Edited October 31, 2022 by tolstoy21

[Expectorating_Aubergine]

I use oak leaves all the time. They work great in the tank because they take a while to break down.  Magnolia leaves are great too. The only averse effect is tannic acid. I don't boil mine though. I have found you don't get the same kind of microorganisms when you boil them. They are COVERED in tiny things. Why would you want to boil that off?