Help with Betta! He's lost more than 50% of his fins in the last few weeks and appears to be ill

[robm74]

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 7.4-7.6 (both before and after water change - this has been relatively constant for this and previous fish)
Hardness (GH): Do not have this info - did not test.
Alkalinity (KH): Do not have this info - did not test

Tank is Mini-Bow 2.5 gallon with Aqueon aerator and filter.

Our son's betta, named Curly - for the curl that we noticed in his dorsal fin when we got him in January 2021 - seems to be having a problem with his fins. And his behavior has deteriorated. He is spending most of his time at the top of the tank and has labored breathing.

You can see attached a photo from August 11th, when Curly was healthy - nice color, full fins. And then a picture from yesterday.

More photos and short video here:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/ckLwuPx4jRqTSSnM9

As you can see, dramatic fin loss - especially the reddish ones under his chin. He has looked like this since about 3 weeks ago. 

Water parameters are stable and as of right now, there isn't a loss of appetite - he's still eating (NorthFin Betta bits about 4-6 pellets daily, though I just bought some frozen shrimp to try.

In addition to the fish's physical appearance, his behavior has changed too.  As mentioned, he's spending most of his time at the top of the tank, not moving around much. When he does try to swim, it looks like he's having trouble - just yesterday when he was trying to swim down, he kind of rolled over - and then decided to come right back to the top.

On the advice of some others, we've been changing about 25% of the water daily - and treating with Kordon NovaAqua Plus and Fish Protector

We are under the operating under the assumption that he tore his fins on a plastic plant - not seen here, we took it out - and then rot set in.

Aside from the water changes - and more frequent vacuuming of the gravel - we have not introduced any other treatments or medications. We did include some aquarium salt on the first couple of water changes, but backed off that because there was a difference of opinion on whether that would help or hurt.

If anyone has any other thoughts it would be appreciated. It seems like we may be running out of time based on the behavior - or maybe this is start of a long road to recovery? Given the deterioration in behavior, would it be time to try a medication - like a Bettafix (though we know there are lot of thoughts on that), an antibiotic or anything else? 

Thank you!

 

 

 

[lefty o]

either a fungal medication or salt. salt is a good things for fungal problems.

[Colu]

I would recommend treating with antibiotic medication as most cases of fin rot are gram negative bacterial I would treat with kanaplex it's more effective when add to  food

Edited October 4, 2021 by Colu

[robm74]

Thank you both for your note. I have Kanaplex and will try it. Not sure how I would measure the above into his food though - because 1 tbsp of food seems to be a lot more than I would normally feed him.

 

[robm74]

Also, on the advice of some I purchased frozen "Spirulina Brine Shrimp." Is that ok to feed him? I wasn't sure if the Spirulina is okay to give Curly.

[SWilson]

The spirulina brine shrimp would be fine to feed curly.  I've never given Kanaplax before but since it's given with food might be a good idea to mix with the brine shrimp. 

I agree with the above advice about salt and antibiotic.  You can use both (if you're able to use salt, not sure if you have snails or if you added live plants). 

I'm no expert since my betta got much worse than that and he's still healing.  😕 But, you'll want to make sure the water is warm enough - around 80 degrees or at least 78.  Here are some additional things you can try:

- adding tannins to the water with indian almond leaf.  

- Maracyn 1 and 2

- frequent water changes to keep the water quality up (then again, as is typicaly I've also heard been told not to do as many water changes if not necessary for water quality because of stress, there seem to be many more people in the frequent water changes camp though)

- the one antibiotic that seems to have finally worked for my fish is metronidazole.  

Good luck! We are rooting for Curly!

[Odd Duck]

I would vote for Kanaplex, warm temps, low dose salt, and pristine water with added tannins.  Remember to remove any activated charcoal/carbon while medicating and dose very carefully for your actual water volume (tank size minus substrate/hardscape, less if not filled to the top).  If keeping the water pristine means water changes then make sure to match the water to the tank water as closely as possible with tannins, salt, temp, etc.

Some do a large water change before adding meds, removing as much debris from the bottom as possible, medicate as directed, then do a large water change after (maintaining the same salt and tannin levels), and use activated charcoal/carbon to remove the meds.  The activated charcoal will also remove tannins so you’ll need to replenish them if using a tea.  The IAL will naturally replenish if you use those directly in the tank.

There are other sources of tannins, too, IAL are just the most commonly used and best studied.  Rooibos tea, oak leaves, or alder cones can also be used among others.  You can make a strong “tea” of IAL by boiling them in water, then just pour the cooled solution into the tank until you reach a very weak brown tinge.  Extra tea can be stored in the refrigerator.  Depending on the tea concentration, you may want to warm it before adding it to the tank during water changes depending on the size of your tank and how much “tea” you need to add to get the color you want.

On 10/3/2021 at 6:04 PM, robm74 said:

Thank you both for your note. I have Kanaplex and will try it. Not sure how I would measure the above into his food though - because 1 tbsp of food seems to be a lot more than I would normally feed him.

 

Extra mixture can be frozen for short times (should be good at least a couple weeks).

[Odd Duck]

And please don’t use anything with “fix” on the end.  They contain melaleuca oils which are contraindicated for fish with respiratory issues.  Is there a way to add more water circulation/air to his tank?  An air bubbler would be very good.

If you can get him over this, a larger tank would be good.  Don’t move him until he is able to swim better, though.  2.5 gallons is really much too small for a Betta and it aggravates me to no end that they are legally allowed to sell them for this purpose.  They should be outlawed to be marketed for fish at all, they’re too small and it’s incredibly difficult to keep water parameters correct in them even with tons of experience.

[robm74]

Thanks for the advice.  We are planning to start the Kanaplex tomorrow.

It doesn't look like the fins have gotten worse on Curly since we started the more frequent water changes, but he hasn't gotten much better either. If you see the "before" and "current" photos attached, what's most concerning is that his entire front fins - just below his "chin" are almost all gone. Those are the reddish ones.

Do you know if these will grow back? We're operating on a hunch that these front fins allow him to steer and better maintain buoyancy, because when he does swim he can't really navigate well.

Check out these videos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/9BvveSTXJQLjApmq5

Especially the first one - both from today - where he tries to swim down to the bottom of the tank but kind of flips over. Not sure if you see anything in these that we are missing.

 

[H.K.Luterman]

Swim bladder issues and fin rot can both be caused by off water parameters. I don't see any live plants in your tank, is that correct? If that's the case, I'm concerned that you have 0 nitrates; it can mean your tank isn't fully cycled.

[Guppy Guy]

I’m going to be an oddball here, but I think he might be doing the damage to himself. Do you exercise Curly with a mirror for about 15 minutes a day? With bettas, they can get bored in their tanks so they start nipping they’re own fins. When they see themselves in the mirror, they think its another betta and start showing off their fins. When they do this, it exercises their fins, and keeps them on the lookout for other betas in the tank. Once you start doing this, you will notice that he is more active as well. 

I still recommend using the Kanaplex, as it will insure that there is no fungal issues as the fins grow back. Good luck!

[robm74]

Thanks for the additional replies.

Live plants: Correct, we don't have any in the tank - and it's safe to assume it's not cycled. 

Damage to himself: We don't have a mirror, but when we turn off the light in the tank it creates a reflection on the sides and he does seem to act like there's another betta staring back at him. We haven't noticed him nipping at his fins but we could try the mirror too.

I did get a shipment of Indian Almond Leaf and haven't added it, yet. Just was a bit concerned - I've read a couple of reviews where the IAL killed someone's fish possibly due to a toxic batch? But if there isn't a lot of risk there, we may try.

I've also held off with the KanaPlex and Focus, just because things aren't getting worse - though they aren't getting much better either. The dorsal and tail fins seem to be regrowing a bit but the ventrals not at all.

We've added San Francisco Bay Brand fish food to his diet - frozen SPIRULINA brine shrimp. This is what the store had. Is spirulina okay for bettas?  https://www.sfbb.com/Spirulina-Brine-Shrimp_41.php.html

Attached are updated photos and a video here:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/UYXbsdEQYCKWgiS36

There looks to be some sort of bulge behind his left gill?

 Thanks again for the help!

[Colu]

You can boil your almond leave before adding them to the tank if you worried about contamination

[robm74]

Hi everyone. We held off on the KanaPlex with Focus because Curly seemed to be getting better. He still is hanging out at the top of the tank most of the time but also is showing more activity and swimming better.

Fin growth and coloring appears to be better but I assume that it's a long process. 

Others have pointed out a possible tumor or cyst behind his left gill - as well as a bulge towards the caudal fin (swim bladder?) It's not clear though.

So is this group's consensus to still try the antibiotic or hold off?

[Colu]

If his fin are regrowing and he's improving I would just monitor him for now as for possible tumor or cyst  it's difficult to tell off your pictures what it is but antibiotic treatment wouldn't have any effect on a tumor or cyst 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Colu

[robm74]

Hello everyone. Things were getting better with Curly but over the last few days, things have taken a turn for the worse.

See just taken pics and short video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/6WPDsYcKLWjWGeJt6

As you can see, the fins are not in good shape - concerned that once they get to his body, it's all over.

We have never medicated him - tried just focusing on water quality and food - but wonder if it's time to try. I have Kanaplex and API Fin Cure ready to go. If we didn't add a medicine, our plan was to do another 25-40% water change tomorrow (we did a 60-70% water change yesterday).

He is almost exclusively hanging out at the top of the tank. When we feed him, if the food pellets drop he tries to go after them by diving. He definitely looks like he's having trouble swimming. When we shut his light off, he does try to swim around a bit - this is usual behavior for him; maybe he sees his reflection better. The breathing doesn't seem too labored though.

His demeanor doesn't seem too bad, except he's just sitting at the top of the tank. When our son comes into the room, he does respond.

As for parameters, I checked everything yesterday. pH was about 7.6 but this is consistent, 0 nitrites, possibly slightly elevated nitrates but hard to tell on the color chart, ammonia looked to be 0 to .25 ppm. Temperature is about 78-80.

One other variable: A few weeks back we started feeding him San Francisco Bay Brand Frozen Spirulina Brine Shrimp. He really likes it, but it's hard to manage in the tank - anything that he doesn't eat floats around and to the bottom and it's hard to remove. We're thinking this may be leading to a change in tank parameters and leading to the fin rot.

Any advice here? Should we start a medication and if so, which one? Thank you!

[Colu]

At this point I would definitely do a course of kanaplex  if you don't see much improvement follow it up with a course of API fin and body cure

[robm74]

On 12/6/2021 at 5:35 PM, Colu said:

At this point I would definitely do a course of kanaplex  if you don't see much improvement follow it up with a course of API fin and body cure

Okay, we will look to do that. Do you know how we use the Kanaplex, as it's not clear from the package instructions:

Should we do a water change first, then add the appropriate amount to the tank with the fish in it?

Or do we take the fish out into a hospital tank and apply the treatment there?

My tank is a 2.5 gallon Aqueon Mini-Bow.

[Colu]

You can treat the main tank or Qarantine that's up to you as for dosing you can add to food or treat the water column 1 scoop for 5 gallons every  48hr for a maximum of three doses  you would use half a level scoop of medication in your 2.5 gallon tank

Edited December 7, 2021 by Colu

[Minanora]

He is such a beautiful fish. I'm pretty sure that If you dose by food, you don't feed the betta the whole does of medicated food as prepared. Feed only as much as he will consume in a max of 3 minutes. Correct @Colu?

I generally dose the water column. If you dose the water, I recommend using a milligram scale to get the dosing right for such a small amount of water.

If you can manage, I would make a space for at least a 5 gallon tank for him to move into as a permanent home once he's recovered. You can work on getting it set up and cycled while you treat him for his fin rot in his current home. He's just so pretty, I feel like it'd be easier to see him and manage his water easier with a bit more water volume. Believe it or not, the bigger the tank, the easier it is to keep the water parameters in balance. And a 10 gallon would be even better IMO. ❤️ Rooting for the recovery of your little Curly. Keep at it!

Edited December 7, 2021 by Minanora
Typo

[Colu]

I feed the medicated food no more then twice a day I add a small amount of food in the tank and wait till it's all gone then add a bit more to make sure they all get some of the medication

[robm74]

We weren't able to get him a hospital tank, so we went with the three day course of Kanaplex in his current environment. The third dose was given yesterday (not via food, just dropping it into the tank). Main reason for this is that it seems the fish is having trouble eating. He wants to eat but sometimes is spitting out the pellets a couple of minutes after we give them. He's also having more trouble swimming and as you can see, the fin situation is getting worse.

Are we pretty much at the end here, sadly? Or, is there another treatment to try? If there is anything else to treat with, we can try something as the hospital tank.

New pictures here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rMUQXNcbY5FWC3Do8

Thank you all for your continued help.

[Colu]

What a would do at this point is another course of kanaplex followed up with course of nitrofurazone based antibiotic treatment such as furan2 this has been discontinued if you can't find any furan2 use jungal fungas clear fizz tabs containing nitrofurazone you can get them from Walmart 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Colu

[Minanora]

I'm sorry you're still fighting the good fight with Curly. Keep it up!

Make sure you're keeping everything in check with your water parameters while you're treating.

Keeping you and Curly in our thoughts. We're rooting for you guys!

[robm74]

On 12/10/2021 at 9:27 PM, Colu said:

What a would do at this point is another course of kanaplex followed up with course of nitrofurazone based antibiotic treatment such as furan2 this has been discontinued if you can't find any furan2 use jungal fungas clear fizz tabs containing nitrofurazone you can get them from Walmart 

Thanks for the info. So it's okay to do another course of the Kanaplex - finish the treatment - and then do another antibiotic (like Furan). Do the Kanaplex first? Here are some new pictures if you have any change in your thoughts:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oaPmaLjbBC39rMR1A

He seems to be having some trouble eating - he is spitting out a pellet or two after trying to chew them.

 

On 12/10/2021 at 9:51 PM, Minanora said:

I'm sorry you're still fighting the good fight with Curly. Keep it up!

Make sure you're keeping everything in check with your water parameters while you're treating.

Keeping you and Curly in our thoughts. We're rooting for you guys!

Thanks - here are some updated photos. Any other advice from your end? https://photos.app.goo.gl/oaPmaLjbBC39rMR1A

He seems to be having some trouble eating - he is spitting out a pellet or two after trying to chew them.

Edited December 12, 2021 by robm74