I guess I’m breeding puffers, now!

[eatyourpeas]

I am not endorsing this product, but could not help to be reminded of Bad Pea Daddy when I saw this!

https://www.amazon.com/Globo-Mexican-Blowfish-Cards-T-Shirt/dp/B0853V7R63/ref=a9vs-vusim-pr-dp-v3m1-desktop-t2_1/135-7335304-0463408?pd_rd_w=RKXss&pf_rd_p=040e5612-0c06-40b5-af85-019ddbeed8f1&pf_rd_r=EEQ8SAMCPQJWMRF35ACR&pd_rd_r=c28587ef-c1dc-4fa0-bdb0-5b893341ac55&pd_rd_wg=dvBRS&pd_rd_i=B0853V7R63&psc=1

 

[Patrick_G]

On 10/24/2021 at 10:29 AM, eatyourpeas said:

I am not endorsing this product, but could not help to be reminded of Bad Pea Daddy when I saw this!

Globo! 

[eatyourpeas]

On 10/24/2021 at 11:34 AM, Patrick_G said:

Globo! 

It caught my eye because @Cory et al were screaming "globo" when catching the Amazon puffer. 🙂

[Patrick_G]

On 10/24/2021 at 11:40 AM, eatyourpeas said:

It caught my eye because @Cory et al were screaming "globo" when catching the Amazon puffer. 🙂

Si, yo tambien. 

[eatyourpeas]

On 10/24/2021 at 11:42 AM, Patrick_G said:

Si, yo tambien. 

I may have to pretend I don't know you if we are in public looking at "globos" together! 🤣

[Odd Duck]

Globo!  Indeed!  😆 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Odd Duck

[Odd Duck]

I’ve now counted as many as 12 fry at one time.  The biggest are absolutely tearing up whiteworms when I feed them. They’re a clear favorite for everybody.  The smallest are still favoring the Grindal worms but they eyeball those whiteworms and try, but the littlest can’t quite handle them unless I make certain they have a chance at some of the smaller whiteworms.

They are just such stinking cute little buggers and have figured out I am the source of their favorite foods.  I’ll be working around the stack in other tanks and look over at them and most of them will be watching me and just waiting by the tube where I drop their food into the feeding dish.

Here’s a few pics from today.  It’s quite a balancing act to have enough mulm to support the population of scuds and snails I want for these little guys and still have a clean enough tank that I can stand it.  I need to push the mulm a bit more than what’s in there right now to build up more scuds and snails.

This gives them something to always snack on and they need that since they’re growing babies.  My schedule just doesn’t allow for multiple feedings per day consistently, so I consider self-sustaining populations of live foods very important. Even if everybody else is on a fasting day, babies still have to get fed.  I add some microworms almost every day, twice daily if I can.  And either Grindal worms or whiteworms daily, sometimes both.

I also supplement snails by moving small bladder snails over from other tanks and there are large rams and bladder snails breeding in the tank.  I rarely see tiny snails even though I see egg clusters all the time.  I know the babies must be eating the freshly hatched snails pretty much as they appear.

[Torrey]

On 11/23/2021 at 9:39 PM, Odd Duck said:

I’ve now counted as many as 12 fry at one time.  The biggest are absolutely tearing up whiteworms when I feed them. They’re a clear favorite for everybody.  The smallest are still favoring the Grindal worms but they eyeball those whiteworms and try, but the littlest can’t quite handle them unless I make certain they have a chance at some of the smaller whiteworms.

They are just such stinking cute little buggers and have figured out I am the source of their favorite foods.  I’ll be working around the stack in other tanks and look over at them and most of them will be watching me and just waiting by the tube where I drop their food into the feeding dish.

Here’s a few pics from today.  It’s quite a balancing act to have enough mulm to support the population of scuds and snails I want for these little guys and still have a clean enough tank that I can stand it.  I need to push the mulm a bit more than what’s in there right now to build up more scuds and snails.

This gives them something to always snack on and they need that since they’re growing babies.  My schedule just doesn’t allow for multiple feedings per day consistently, so I consider self-sustaining populations of live foods very important. Even if everybody else is on a fasting day, babies still have to get fed.  I add some microworms almost every day, twice daily if I can.  And either Grindal worms or whiteworms daily, sometimes both.

I also supplement snails by moving small bladder snails over from other tanks and there are large rams and bladder snails breeding in the tank.  I rarely see tiny snails even though I see egg clusters all the time.  I know the babies must be eating the freshly hatched snails pretty much as they appear.

I am ORD🥰🥰🥰

For a denser amphopods population, have you considered building an amphopod grow station?

My old favorite, plastic canvas mesh. Create a cube or rectangular box that you can open and close (a lid that slides in works really well).

Fill with leaves, and put the open box in your amphopod grow tank overnight. I add a couple of algae wafers.

Carefully place a plastic bag over it, and as you lift it (if you didn't put it in a Tupperware container), wrap the plastic bag around it.

You should have a healthy population of scuds in your box now. Slide the lid into place, and carefully put the box in the pea puffer tank. If you want it camouflaged, glue some moss and/or anubia to the "front".

You want to be able to open the box to be able to add leaves and the occasional wafer. The adult scuds will quickly multiply, and while some scuds will stay in the box as long as there are an ample supply of leaves, baby scuds enjoy exploring and will end up as snacks.

More will survive, the denser the plant growth. 

[Odd Duck]

On 11/26/2021 at 12:52 AM, Torrey said:

The adult scuds will quickly multiply, and while some scuds will stay in the box as long as there are an ample supply of leaves, baby scuds enjoy exploring and will end up as snacks.

Leaves!  Why do I forget to add leaves when I want more scuds!  I have loads of oak leaves and the tannins certainly won’t hurt those pea puffer babies.  I’ll be adding some leaves tomorrow to the puffer fry tank. I don’t really care how it looks as long as it functions as a reservoir for the scuds to populate and supply the fry with live food.  There are enough scuds in there now that they are close to enough of a supply, but I would like them to have more available so I know there are enough for the smallest that are the less aggressive eaters.

I guess I’ll be making a little scud jewelry box refugium!  😆 😉 😝 

[Torrey]

On 11/26/2021 at 9:56 PM, Odd Duck said:

guess I’ll be making a little scud jewelry box refugium!

🤣🤣🤣

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:29 PM, Odd Duck said:

Egg scatterers, but they like to scatter in moss or similar plants.  They will eat their own eggs and fry, too.  They are definitely not the easiest fish I’ve kept.  It’s been quite challenging to get a functional shoal and I’ve only had the 20 set up since mid January, puffers went in about mid March.  Removed excess males about mid May and started growing up new juveniles right after that.  The new shoal members only went in the tank in early July.  I’m already set up to move them to a bigger tank as soon as the 29 reboot is ready.  There are some fish that are not prospering with 8 in a 20 long even though that’s within stocking parameters for puffers.  I’m hoping to fix that with more tank volume.

If I was going to have a complete do-over, I would grow up juvies fully in quarantine the first time around and not put any puffers in the tank until I could tell their sexes.  I would do fewer fish in a larger tank than recommended, which is why I’m switching my shoal to a larger tank.  I would not try to do a single male with a harem at all (failed x 2) before trying to build a larger shoal (which has taken 2 attempts to work because there were so many males in the first group of juvies).

I would plant even heavier than I did and even more plants will be going into the 29 - Anubias and Java ferns on wood and rocks so I can re-arrange easily if needed to discourage bad behaviors.  I just want any start up algae to be over before I add in the slower growing plants that are more susceptible to algae accumulation.

A little summary might be helpful, I guess, for anybody interested in pea puffers.

1. Plan on at least 2-3 females per male.

2. Plan on at least 6 or more in the shoal to have any chance of normal behavior (I had 6 still in the QT after completing my shoal).

3. Plan on at least 20 gallons for a 6 member shoal, not the 15 gallon minimum recommendation for 6.

4. Don’t bother with dither fish unless you have a much larger tank and realize that ANY fish you put with pea puffers will be at risk for bites and nips and potentially worse.  I’ve not tried it but I’ve heard of people doing a shoal of 6-8 in a 55 community tank as long as there are no slow, long finned fish.  I have tried dithers (ember tetras - fast and wary) and they went from 10 to 6 in just a few days after being at 10 for weeks after adding them.

5. Plan on about twice as many plants as you would normally use, even for a more typical “heavily planted” tank.  My 29 doesn’t look that densely planted yet, but that’s jungle Val (Vallisneria americana) in the back right corner and it will get very dense pretty quickly once it settles.  I’m also still hoping to find a tall “mother sword” of Echinodorus bleherii in that same back corner and I’ll crowd the Vals even more.  It won’t show off the sword at its best, it’s not meant for that in this tank.  It’s meant to provide cover.  And that’s 3 radicans swords on the left side.  Yep, too dense there, too.  Very much on purpose.

6. Make sure to have plenty of moss(es) or similar fine-leaved, dense plants as a significant part of your plant scheme.  I’ll be starting moss tomorrow in the 29.  Puffers aren’t expected to breed without moss, but apparently dense plastic plants and muck can serve in a pinch.  🙄🤪

7. Add any shrimp BEFORE you add puffers.  Pick shrimp that are on the bigger side.  Be prepared for the shrimp to potentially become a snack, because, well, murder beans.  I will be adding Amanos before puffers go in this time, not after.  It got waaaay to exciting for the Amanos when I added them after the puffers were already in the tank.

I fully expect it to take close to 2 months to get the 29 settled and ready for the puffers with plants, snails, and amphipods well established.  I won’t be adding otos to this tank, they seem too stressed with the puffers despite others saying they’d be fine.  They might be better with more space, but otos are just too cute and precious to risk them.  I can’t bring myself to do it again and regretted it pretty much from the beginning because they went from happy, active fish before puffers to quiet and reclusive after puffers.

Just my thoughts based on my personal experience, take them for whatever you think they’re worth.

The egg scattering puffers are on my list eventually. Awesome to see the similarities with pea fry vs the palustris. Do you find they use the moss for security and run to it for cover when nervous? Mine will hide in subwassertang if the see something "dangerous" outside the tank  

[Odd Duck]

On 12/1/2021 at 10:49 AM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said:

The egg scattering puffers are on my list eventually. Awesome to see the similarities with pea fry vs the palustris. Do you find they use the moss for security and run to it for cover when nervous? Mine will hide in subwassertang if the see something "dangerous" outside the tank  

Yes.  I have more pearlweed in there than moss, it’s just more moss on this end, but the same applies.  They are mostly very bold now and start to congregate near the feeding dish and somebody (or a couple) will go up in the feeding tube to meet any worms or snails coming down.

Because it gets to be a kerfluffle in the feeding dish under the feeding tube, I’ve taken to feeding the microworms outside the feeding tube so the littlest are less likely to get mowed over or shoved out of the way.  I’m still feeding some Grindal worms to make sure the littlest have an appropriately sized meal but most of them are big enough to take on white worms easily.  I’ve had no luck with coaxing anybody to eat anything the slightest bit less meaty.  I tried offering a variety of small fry foods but no one impressed.

The biggest are ready to go to the lfs, so that may be my weekend project.  First I’ve got to catch the little darlings.

I think one of my adults got her bell rung or something.  I found her down in the pigmy swords not moving at all.  I set her up in a hang on breeder box that circulates the water through and she’s doing much better just 12 hours later.  She ate this morning readily after not showing the slightest interest last night.  After getting her into the breeder box I could see a puffer bite-sized notch out of her tail.  I’m betting she hit the glass and knocked herself loopy.

I’ll keep her in the breeder box another couple days, then rearrange things in the tank and release her back to the shoal after a feeding and when I have time to sit and supervise the little murder beans.