Lennie Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 (edited) Hello guys. I had two angels that grew up together from the size of a coin. They have always been together, swimming around schooling almost nonstop even as adults. Three days ago they decided that they don’t like each other anymore. shaking bodies, tearing up fins, aggression. I wanted to let them try sorting it out until there is an obvious damage. Last night I decided to remove my black angel, Wednesday, to the 50cube tank. She had visible damage on the fin and tail. Now these sillies look and act lonely without each other. Should I try to introduce Wednesday back after some time? Or should I add one or two more juvenile angelfish as well as Wednesday to spread aggression and create a more balanced dynamic in the tank. the problem is I dont even know their genders but probably the same one, otherwise with such close relationship and growing together, I bet they would pair up Edited April 25 by Lennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tlindsey Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 On 4/25/2024 at 3:01 AM, Lennie said: they don’t like each other anymore. Unfortunately that will happen with cichlids. @Lennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwcarlson Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Ah, yes, the random cichlid murder spree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 On 4/25/2024 at 3:24 PM, Tlindsey said: Unfortunately that will happen with cichlids. @Lennie Yes! But yknow...... I can fix him! 😆😆 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony s Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Well, you could get a duplicate tank and set them up side by side. That way they could always be close enough to glare each other. And you’d have another project to do… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 On 4/25/2024 at 4:27 PM, Tony s said: Well, you could get a duplicate tank and set them up side by side. That way they could always be close enough to glare each other. And you’d have another project to do… No more projects man. I have 25 Tanks 🤣 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony s Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Or maybe just a bigger tank so they can be apart from each other On 4/25/2024 at 9:30 AM, Lennie said: No more projects man. I have 25 Tanks 🤣 I understand completely. When that bug bites, it bites hard🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSunfish Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 It's often hard to keep only two cichlids (or sunfishes for that matter) of the same species in the same tank. A singleton is okay, and several are often okay, too, because of aggression dilution (although you're more likely to get breeding pairs, and then all bets are off). However, if you have only two, it's easy for one to bully the other, or for both to go to war, undistracted by anyone else. If you still wanted to keep the two together, you might get away with it if you had other angels in there with them (although again: more likely to get one or more territorial, breeding pairs that way). Another trick you might try is putting other compatible, comparably semi-aggressive cichlids or gouramis in there - or even dither fish or catfish - so that they are distracted and don't have time to fight each other. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllFishNoBrakes Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Cichlids gonna cichlid! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 On 4/25/2024 at 5:48 PM, AtomicSunfish said: It's often hard to keep only two cichlids (or sunfishes for that matter) of the same species in the same tank. A singleton is okay, and several are often okay, too, because of aggression dilution (although you're more likely to get breeding pairs, and then all bets are off). However, if you have only two, it's easy for one to bully the other, or for both to go to war, undistracted by anyone else. If you still wanted to keep the two together, you might get away with it if you had other angels in there with them (although again: more likely to get one or more territorial, breeding pairs that way). Another trick you might try is putting other compatible, comparably semi-aggressive cichlids or gouramis in there - or even dither fish or catfish - so that they are distracted and don't have time to fight each other. I have two german blue rams and one moliwe kribensis there. Sadly does no distraction. I used to keep my gold gouramis here too. I agree that the solution is probably either increasing the number of angels, or keeping them in different tanks alone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllFishNoBrakes Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Increasing the numbers could work. I had 6 in my 55. 2 got taken out as they formed a breeding pair. The reminding 4 were exactly as you’d expect. The only real aggression is when the pair in that tank spawns, but I just pull the eggs and by the following day it’s back to normal. Eventually I held back 2 Angels that I raised and put them back in the 55 to bring the total back to 6. No problems adding the fish as I grew them out enough before adding them. The male that was paired with a different female is now paired with a female from the 2 I added back. Again, the only real aggression is when they spawn as they protect their clutch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Do you know there sexes? While it might be possible to reintroduce them i have found they have very long memory and it is not overly likely they will get along at a later date. The best chance would be to move the aggressor into the target's aquarium but i doubt it will work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLANANO Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 I had a female Pearl Gourami do this. I had a trio 1 M and 2 F. After about a year, the larger female decided she hated the male and literally beat him to death. I saw his damage and removed her but the male died by the next morning. The other female is still in my tank and doing well but I feel bad that shes all alone. She is also the only Asian fish in my South American tank. I'm not sure why that makes me feel worse for her but it does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 (edited) On 4/25/2024 at 10:11 PM, anewbie said: Do you know there sexes? While it might be possible to reintroduce them i have found they have very long memory and it is not overly likely they will get along at a later date. The best chance would be to move the aggressor into the target's aquarium but i doubt it will work. I have no clue about their sexes. Is there any way to tell without any pairing/breeding action? I bet they are the same gender, otherwise they would be very likely to pair up. These two has never been leaving the side of each other since they were tiny babies. Always swimming together, eating together. I took a pic of Wednesday today to send tore fin situation to a friend. Here is the picture: platinum white angel: On 4/25/2024 at 10:54 PM, NOLANANO said: I had a female Pearl Gourami do this. I had a trio 1 M and 2 F. After about a year, the larger female decided she hated the male and literally beat him to death. I saw his damage and removed her but the male died by the next morning. The other female is still in my tank and doing well but I feel bad that shes all alone. She is also the only Asian fish in my South American tank. I'm not sure why that makes me feel worse for her but it does. Same happened to me with my gold gourami trio. I would never get them again or suggest anyone getting a group of them. A single one should be okay I guess. Or maybe a very crowded group of many members from both sexes Edited April 25 by Lennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSunfish Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 (edited) Angels are not very sexually dimorphic, but short of actually examining the vent of a breeding individual, there is an indicator of sex. Females tend to have a longer, rounded bottom line between the pelvic and anal fins, while in males that line tends to be shorter and straighter. Edited April 25 by AtomicSunfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) On 4/25/2024 at 3:25 PM, Lennie said: I have no clue about their sexes. Is there any way to tell without any pairing/breeding action? I bet they are the same gender, otherwise they would be very likely to pair up. These two has never been leaving the side of each other since they were tiny babies. Always swimming together, eating together. I took a pic of Wednesday today to send tore fin situation to a friend. Here is the picture: platinum white angel: Same happened to me with my gold gourami trio. I would never get them again or suggest anyone getting a group of them. A single one should be okay I guess. Or maybe a very crowded group of many members from both sexes What age are the angels; in the black one case it looks like the breeding tube is partially extended but the picture is not clear. My wild guess is these angels are 9 to 11 months old and the black is male and the platinum is male or female with a slight lean towards female HOWEVER these are just guesses as you need to see the breeding tube or know something about the parents to have a better guess. Don't confuse angels behavior with gourami even if it appears similar. Also what size is their original aquarium ? Edited April 26 by anewbie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spokanejared Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 I find space works well for smaller numbers. I have 5 angels in my 150 and they go at eachother all the time. There's enough of them to spread out the aggression so no one fish gets it all the time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 On 4/26/2024 at 4:37 AM, anewbie said: What age are the angels; in the black one case it looks like the breeding tube is partially extended but the picture is not clear. My wild guess is these angels are 9 to 11 months old and the black is male and the platinum is male or female with a slight lean towards female HOWEVER these are just guesses as you need to see the breeding tube or know something about the parents to have a better guess. Don't confuse angels behavior with gourami even if it appears similar. Also what size is their original aquarium ? I checked my gallery and saw that I got them on March 31 last year and they were around the size of a coin. So they are probably around 14-15 months old right now the main tank I keep them in is a 100x40x40cmh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 On 4/25/2024 at 9:33 PM, Lennie said: I checked my gallery and saw that I got them on March 31 last year and they were around the size of a coin. So they are probably around 14-15 months old right now the main tank I keep them in is a 100x40x40cmh Not sure they are full adults and have been full adults for a while - if they had paired and then breeding was unsuccessful for a period of time it is not non-normal for the female to 'break' up with the male and seek a new male but from what you've said they have never attempted to breed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 On 4/26/2024 at 12:38 PM, anewbie said: Not sure they are full adults and have been full adults for a while - if they had paired and then breeding was unsuccessful for a period of time it is not non-normal for the female to 'break' up with the male and seek a new male but from what you've said they have never attempted to breed. That's one of my bedroom tanks. So my observation is very limited. That is also a community tank so I don't even know if they ever tried breeding. All alone there are 3 SAEs and 4 juvenile super red bristlenoses as well as so maany MTS and one L199. Even if they ever laid, at best, at night time, all the eggs would be easily eaten during night time with such nocturnal activity. So I don't know if they ever bred really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 On 4/26/2024 at 4:45 AM, Lennie said: That's one of my bedroom tanks. So my observation is very limited. That is also a community tank so I don't even know if they ever tried breeding. All alone there are 3 SAEs and 4 juvenile super red bristlenoses as well as so maany MTS and one L199. Even if they ever laid, at best, at night time, all the eggs would be easily eaten during night time with such nocturnal activity. So I don't know if they ever bred really I doubt they are a pair - and i doubt one is a female as frequently two females will lay eggs and pretend they are pair - none of the fishes you listed are likely to go after the eggs - the sae are the only fish large enough to compete with the angels but they aren't forceful. I don't know about your SAE but mine got quite large maybe 5+ inches and good size diameter. Of course tank size and diet play a role here. Anyway it is not the behavior i would expect if two males but i guess it could happen. You can try to reintroduce it after a few weeks - males tend to be more forgiving but i have my doubts. Alternatively you could see if the petshop will allow you to trade it for another angelfish. If you get a small one the big one will chase a bit for a few days but usually after that leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanked Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Aggression between my angels ended when they were moved to a larger tank with another angel. I don't know if this would work in reverse. Those two eventually became a breeding pair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 (edited) On 4/26/2024 at 8:18 PM, Tanked said: Aggression between my angels ended when they were moved to a larger tank with another angel. I don't know if this would work in reverse. Those two eventually became a breeding pair. I cant upgrade them to a bigger tank, but I can add some juvenile angelfish once Wednesday totally heals. Seems like the best bet. Angels are limiting, and since I want to empty my fishroom, Id rather use this 50cube for smaller sized fish or a mix tank of my guppies. Angels are not guppy safe Edited April 26 by Lennie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeverumKeeper Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 On 4/25/2024 at 12:54 PM, NOLANANO said: She is also the only Asian fish in my South American tank. I'm not sure why that makes me feel worse for her but it does. By now she has probably picked up the language, she is OK 😂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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